Galaxy's Edge Space Bar

[Terenia]

Haviss is silent throughout Elriss' rant, but when it is over he nods in agreement.

"The war is the cause of the Andalites, not us," Haviss says to Rathien, cutting into the debate. "We could have taken the Hork-Bajir planet easily, with minimal force, but they were the ones that insisted on fighting. They were the ones that unleashed a quantum virus. We've done quite a job of bringing Earth over to the Empire while minimizing the loss of life. And the Taxxon's cut a deal with us -- there was almost no bloodshed there. Conquest is not our primary objective, but sometimes our hands are forced."

He glances at Ike. "Voluntary controllers usually find a way to seek us out on their own. They are few and far between, at least among the humans, but they do exist. Most humans do not believe that we can help them, so slightly more direct measures must be taken." He smiles thinly. "They are not physically harmed, though."

[Chad32]

Ike thought Rathien made a good point, but didn't comment. He just took in the other side while staying friendly with the Yeerks.

"You have found Earth, huh? That either didn't happen in my timeline, or I'm just not aware of it. Humans as a whole value personal freedom above all things. It is part of why our species has sinful natures. Christians try to bring people to God, but we have a hard time reconciling taking guidance from God, and wanting to be ourselves. I can imagine Yeerks not having a much easier time either. The idea that one would have to sacrifice any control over their own destiny, for good or bad, is abhorrent to most."

"I haven't heard of a quantum virus. I believe Andalites are more secretive about themselves, especially anything that they may feel guilty about. Not that Humans aren't similar in that."

"I would greatly suggest not trying to force people. Just gather as many voluntaries as possible, and show the goodness that comes from such unions. You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar, after all."

[Luke Skywalker (Ossanlin)]

Rathien nods as if in understanding before taking another sip.  "Soooo...your hands were forced to invade a peaceful herbivorous species that already had a hyper-intelligent guardian race looking after them?  So noble of you to destroy a culture in near-perfect equilibrium.  I mean...the fact that Hork-Bajir are walking potential weapons obviously had nothing to do with "forcing your hands" to destroy a peaceful race, I'm sure."

[Shenmue654]

Mar's grin seems to become wider the longer she rants, and his...unnatural...t eeth are clearly visible and quite real, apparently. "Oh dear, did I make you upset?" he states, crossing his legs and seeming more at ease from her rage. And the fact is, he was---- although in a mortal form such...demonstratio ns provided little energy, he still associated them with loosening stress on himself.

"I never once, in our little conversation, said that my way was better," stated Mar, taking another sip of his wine. "In fact it tends to be worse, for everyone---offering people the right to make their own decisions opens up the door for them to make terrible mistakes. These mistakes have cost that race more pain and suffering than a Yeerk has ever faced, except perhaps in their most brutal form of death."

"There can be no consolation between you Yeerks and the human race, at least not with all of them," states Mar carefully. "Their religions, their societies, everything----all are obsessed with Will and what their own Wills contribute to and produce. When freedom is not their most prized attribute, their ability to build upon and support their own kin with that Will is. I won't deny that your species has its own right to self-determination, to potential, to success...and that that right demands the assumption of the bodies of others. What I am wondering is...."

Mar examines her expression as if searching for something of interest to him. "....if your race has already shown itself willing to pay the price required for its own freedom, even in blood...why does the lady doth protest so much when I point that out? I'm all for such a quest, when it is honest with what it truly is."

[Terenia]

Haviss frowns at Rathien. "We needed hosts," he says. "Sometimes sacrifices must be made. We would have taken them in a manner that didn't destroy most of their people, but the Andalites interfered." He runs a hand through his straight, brown hair. "And yes, we neeed weapons. But only because we were beginning to understand just how dangerous of a place the galaxy was. If we had wandered into it armed with nothing but Gedds we would be back on a quarantined Homeworld, swimming around in our pools asking one another what went wrong."

He glances at Mar, rolling his eyes a little. "Your human will is irrelevant," he says flatly, clearly of the opinion that Mar is fully human, thanks to his scanner. "You cannot even function as one society. The blood we spill is minimized as much as possible, but if there's a human standing between us and progress? That is the human's own foolishness."

[Aluminator (Kit)]

Elriss smirks at Ike, "I don't recall saying anything at all about voluntary hosts. You're delusional if you expect us to subsist on those tiny numbers. Didn't you just say that most find it abhorrent? Most humans will not truly grasp what we can offer them until we've taken every last one of you. In this case... how do you humans say it?" She grins. It's not a nice grin. "It's better to ask forgiveness than permission."

She frowns at Rathien. Shouldn't he, rightfully, be on her side here? He's worked for the Light, for the Empire, she knows. What game is he playing?

She nods at what Haviss is saying, "The Hork-Bajir were suitable. The fact that they could also serve as weapons was just a happy accident." She glares at Rathien, "The Hork-Bajir are far better off with us as allies. It's been the same on every planet in this war. We improve. We defend. The Andalites destroy."

When Mar speaks, Elriss feels her anger building again. He's baiting her, she can tell, but damned if it isn't working. She again finds herself nodding in agreement with Haviss's words. "Don't mistake my defense of my people's actions for an aversion to violence. We will defend ourselves. I will do whatever it takes to make sure my people have the lives they deserve." She leans closer to him, her voice becoming a growl, "If you think we're going to just lie back and let a bunch of arrogant blue grass-eating bastards keep us confined to pools so that they can continue to feel like they own the galaxy, you've got another thing coming."

[Chad32]

"This goes back to what I stated earlier that it is not the responsibility of other species to ensure that you have as many hosts as you wish." Ike said, looking at both Elriss and haviss. "It is not our fault that God made your people how they are. If you try to take people by force, then you won't find much sympathy. You cannot claim any reasons but selfishness if you make your need for hosts an ultimatum, as opposed to a request."

[General Squall Leonhart]

When one of the individuals mentioned that Larry seemed in excellent health for defeating several men it caused the memories to resurface and he became lost in all of the carnage. Larry eventually shook himself out of it and said towards the man. "I defeated more than just men, I slayed demonic creatures of incredible power. The Prime Evil Lords were the most powerful demons to ever escape the Lands of Hell and their defeat has now allowed the people of Sanctuary to live in a time of peace that is unfortunatly marred by the task of rebuilding and recovering." The man in black leather takes a large drink of mead and starts petting his Raven.

[Shenmue654]

"You think I'm human, do you?" states Mar, glancing at the other Yeerk with a bemused expression. "I suppose that's fine. I'm human enough now, and I am a most ancient defender of their free Will. I have helped them to divide themselves and suffer and die all they please. From their pain is produced the emotions that sustain me, and a most lovely beauty."

"As for the Andalites...." Mar frowns. He seems conflicted. "....I knew one. A...paladin, a War-Prince named Ossanlin. Friend of Yeerks, Andalites, and humans alike....terribly interesting fellow.  They are as you say, but they are many other things as well. I am not against either your race's efforts or theirs, regardless of whatever seems to be getting your panties up in a knot. I simply refuse to lie in the Bar."

The stranger then speaks, with the bird. Odd fellow---and he's saying the men he killed were Highest? Mar turns to him and says, "What  are you doing here then, with your country broken apart? In times of trouble, your kind are needed where they are."

[Luke Skywalker (Ossanlin)]

Rathien laughs again, shaking his head.  "I thought members of the Light were smart enough not to buy into their own lies and propaganda."  He chuckles.  "Don't get me wrong, your massive war affords me a great deal of...entertainment. ..and I really don't care who wins.  But I do believe in giving credit where it's due...and I must say, at least the Andalites of Sector Seven are smart enough not to buy into the pile of steaming dung that they feed to their "People."  I've met some uncannily ruthless Andalites in SS...cold, manipulative, unashamed, and completely aware and understanding of the lies they were using to control their people.  You've lost your so-called Light a great deal of my respect."  He grins and chuckles again.  "But logic doesn't matter to people as blind as yourself, does it? So perhaps we should speak of something else, hmm?"  He takes another sip from his goblet.

[Terenia]

"You are human enough," Haviss says in response to Mar, frowning a little. He turns his attention to Ike. "I don't know anything about your god, but Yeerks evolved to infest other species. We evolved to take advantage of the abilities of others. We are doing what we were born to do. If you must look at it from a primitive religious context, we are doing what we were destined to do. And Elriss is right, we are improving the lives of the creatures we take. For the most part."

<<You are so ****ing full of ****,>> his host says lowly, speaking for the first time. Haviss' smile grows ever so slightly in response. "Even if they do not realize it."

[Chad32]

Ike glanced at Mar after his comment, giving him another once over, as if seeing him differently. His expression doesn't really change, though at the moment he's not very happy with where this conversation is going.

"Don't you see you're heading down a bad road? You have the right to expand as a civilization. The Andalites tried to restrict you, because they were afraid your people would do the very thing you wound up doing. So now they're motivated to stop you, and to defend from them, you have to take whatever hosts you can take. That just makes them fight harder, and the cycle goes on until you destroy yourselves with senseless conflict."

"You're a Human controller. You know that as violent as our people can be, many Humans will rally behind the cause of the weak and trodden upon.  Sure, some still wouldn't care for you, but if you came requesting help instead of as conquerers, I think you would find many Humans willing to side with you. I doubt that you're really going to win this war. You need to change gears if you're going to survive as a free people, and you deserve to."

"I'm not saying don't take hosts. I'm just saying don't take them by force, and instead of kidnapping people who don't want a Yeerk in their head, just ask them for help. I think it's safe to assume you probably hadn't done that because I know my people. We love to fight, and we love a good underdog story. If you are open about your needs, and give people the choice, you may find a hundred, or thousand plus people to be willing to take you in, and you'd find millions willing to go blue deer hunting for you."

"You made a deal with one species. Why not do that with every species?"

[Terenia]

Haviss' eyebrows inch higher up his forehead as Ike speaks. "You have got to be kidding," he says, laughing flatly. "We don't make deals with them because they don't want deals made. Do you honestly think that voluntary humans alone would be able to sustain our population?" His lips twist into a smirk. "And my people are winning the war. There are thousands, of human-Controllers on Earth and no one knows the difference. By the time they know what is happening it will be too late and they will be ours."

He backs off a little then, a small smile replacing his fervent expression, "Of course, the Empire has many faults of its own. It's a broken, tiresome government that spews out more propaganda than the entirety of humanity's governments put together. But such things can be useful, at times."

[Chad32]

"I don't know how many Yeerks there are, and I have not stated or implied that I think there are enough voluntaries for everyone. At least not in the beginning, and certainly not if you make in an ultimatum. I am saying, though, that if given the choice, people who don't want to be infested will still fight for your freedoms. You don't have to be a member of a group to sympathize with the group."

"I don't know how it's going where you're from, but I really wouldn't bet on you being able to sustain yourselves this way. Though who knows? Maybe you will win. Though if you can't figure out a way to get a bunch of Humans to rally behind a worthy banner, I'd say your chances aren't very good. It is not hard to get people to fight for a cause they can relate to. Not being humanoid is a speed bump. Not a blockade. You are not trying."

[Terenia]

"We do not need the humans to fight for us," Haviss says, snorting. "We can use the humans to fight for ourselves. Why waste time convincing people to fight for us when we could easily infest them and do it ourselves? I don't think you understand just how complete Yeerk control is. My host still fights for his freedom, on occasion. But no matter how hard he tries he cannot so much as blink an eye without my permission. It is far less tedious to take the hosts we need rather than barter for them."