Author Topic: Gore and violence in Animorphs. Was it too explicit?  (Read 7996 times)

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Offline DinosaurNothlit

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Re: Gore and violence in Animorphs. Was it too explicit?
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2009, 04:49:06 PM »
maybe it was less the author and more the first person narration...I can't picture anyone besides Rachel maybe being comfortable saying "I killed like eight Hork-Bajir that night." And from what I remember, one of the most brutally-written scenes was the mean Rachel one where she ran over a bunch of Hork-Bajir in #32

Okay, so this is true.  Yeah, the Animorphs probably just didn't want to think about all the lives they were taking, so I can see why they'd leave it out.

However, you could argue the same thing about the gore and violence, which they left in.

And, just a side-note, if you read that scene from book #32, even then it doesn't actually say that she killed anything.  You could assume that the Horks she ran over probably would have died, but would a car impact really kill a Hork-Bajir?  It's a bit iffy, I think.

Offline anijen21

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Re: Gore and violence in Animorphs. Was it too explicit?
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2009, 04:57:31 PM »
yeah but she was on a ROLL so she's not going to lean down and check for heartbeats just so she can tally her kill count.

That might be another reason. It's easy to say "I ripped out a Hork-Bajir's throat and he was still when he fell to the ground" but could any of them say beyond a reasonable doubt that "I killed him"? Life has a tendency to want to keep on living, especially well-built shock troops like Hork-Bajir. I mean, Ax might be the exception because when you cut off somebody's head there's really no way they're coming back from that.

idk. It's probably a combination of all these things. That's one of the biggest gripes about summer movies too, is violence is never drawn out to its obvious conclusion. Legolas can shoot an Orc off of the highest cliff in Moria but once he falls, he's forgotten about. I think the good thing about Animorphs is that though we don't know whether they died, those deaths were never really forgotten about. They still had nightmares, and not just about almost getting killed, but about the killing (or at least gruesome fighting) they had to do.

 
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Offline Serraph105

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Re: Gore and violence in Animorphs. Was it too explicit?
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2009, 10:52:20 PM »
I can't remember which book it was, but they were fighting in the opening chapter, and in the aftermath of the battle, Jake was basically walking around in his Tiger morph with his guts hanging out. That is the one scene that always sticks out to me when I think of the violence in Animorphs. The shark battle that left Marco's dolphin body nearly torn in half is also another one.

Even though this was a lot more graphic and violent than what you would expect from a kids series, I don't think it was too explicit or over the top. They were fighting a war, and literally did so tooth and nail. It was bound to get messy. The series wouldn't have been the same had K.A skimmed over the brutalities of their battles. In fact, I'd probably feel that there wasn't enough of it in there had this been a YA series, but I'm content with the amount that did make it into the books, especially for the target audience that they were sold to.
speaking of violent moments that stuck out in my mind was one in the seventh book (I think) where Marco was using one arm to continue fighting controllers and the other to hold his stomach together.

As to the OP no in fact I kinda think it hit a sweet spot in terms of violence. Sometimes it went very graphic and other times it just let you imagine how bad it was which in my mind will always be way worse. They were graphic about the Taxons though lol considering how many times they spoke about their entrails being all over the place it was kinda great.

Offline Shock

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Re: Gore and violence in Animorphs. Was it too explicit?
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2009, 11:13:14 PM »
Rachel eating through her own tail was a little much. That is probably one of the most intense sequences throughout the whole series. Actually pretty much all of the solution is that way. Did that win an award? The thing to remember is that the morphs can cure you of any physical injury. That is K.A.'s loop hole that make's everything okay.

the last bit about rachel with a glass shard in her hand and david in the other begging to kill him tops that in my mind.

gore and violence are not really over the top in my opinion. there is a LOT but it doesn't overwhelm the series and really, only enchants it's main theme and mood. 

that war is hell, paranoia,that you are living with a secret mission, never know if you survive the next day.

that is the series's strong point and what drew me in as a child.
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Offline Terenia

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Re: Gore and violence in Animorphs. Was it too explicit?
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2009, 11:15:44 PM »
I think that the violence and the reader both evolved and matured with the series.

Early on in the series KA used a lot of cop outs, such as Tobias' line where he won't describe the violence because it will be "his own personal nightmare". There are a few violent scenes, specifically in #4 when Marco is attacked by a shark, but violence that pertains to actual Yeerk vs. Animorph battle is limited. It's actually a bit more like you would see in a kids tv series (Teen Titans comes to mind) where the bad guys either fall by the wayside or one of the two sides ends up running away.

As the series progressed, so did the amount of violence that KA was comfortable detailing. Let me emphasize that the level of violence probably didn't increase, just the amount that was given detail. I think probably books 1-6 were pretty blase on the violence count. #7, for me, is the first one that sticks out as having a really gruesome battle, when Rachel fought that battle on the tower in her Grizzly morph and lost an arm. Still, the grizzly has conveniently weak eyes, so not too much could be actually described in a visual sense.

The violence sort of hit its stride with the coming of the David trilogy. Rachel biting her tail off was definitely an intense moment. You also have David hitting Ax with a baseball bat so hard that part of his beak falls off, and the whole Jake-gushing-blood-out-of-his-neck thing.

Progress further into the series and you have Ax posing as a torturer, many many throats being ripped out, a few dozen (or hundred?) Taxxons exploding their gooey entrails and so on and so forth. In my mind this kind of culminates in what I think is Megamorphs 4, Back to Before, when Jake faces the dying Controller who keeps saying "I'm cold." and begging for a chance at life. Jake, knowing the Yeerk and the human will die, turns and walks away.

Flash forward even further and you have the massacre of tens of thousands of Yeerks in the final battle and, of course, Rachel's death and the deaths of the auxilaries. All in all it ends on a much bloodier note than it began.

Taking all of that into consideration, lets now look at the reader. The series started in 1996 and it has a reading level of 5th grade. That means that the goal audience was about 9-12 years of age (on a side note, I was actually in 5th grade when I started reading them and I was ten). The question then is, can a 9 year old handle the level of violence portrayed in, oh, say, book 32? Maybe not if they just picked it up out of the blue, or after the latest Babysitter's Club mystery. BUT, after the 9 year old has read the first few books, which introduce the reader to the violence slowly, he/she becomes desensitized to the fact that people die and it can be, and in the Ani's case is, bloody.

I also think that its important to mention that KA's message would not translate well if it were a non-violent book series. Also of note, AppleGrant are kind of notorious for violence and the generally weird. Remnants has a scene in which a character is split almost in half by a gigantic knife, Everworld has the main character's walk over a road of humans buried up to the neck in the fourth book, and GONE practically has a lynching scene. They aren't afraid to 'go there'.


So, that was the long answer. The short answer?

No, it was not too explicit. The violence was necessary to effectively convey the message that Applegate was trying to portray. Additionally she approached it in a way that allowed for the audience to become accustomed to the violence over time and, therefore, not traumatized by it. In fact, the violence allowed for enough 'realism' to make a science fiction children's series realistic and even believable, and kept the readers hooked and waiting for more.


/endnovel
« Last Edit: November 24, 2009, 11:19:26 PM by Terenia »

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Offline Shock

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Re: Gore and violence in Animorphs. Was it too explicit?
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2009, 12:04:50 AM »
I think that the violence and the reader both evolved and matured with the series.

Early on in the series KA used a lot of cop outs, such as Tobias' line where he won't describe the violence because it will be "his own personal nightmare". There are a few violent scenes, specifically in #4 when Marco is attacked by a shark, but violence that pertains to actual Yeerk vs. Animorph battle is limited. It's actually a bit more like you would see in a kids tv series (Teen Titans comes to mind) where the bad guys either fall by the wayside or one of the two sides ends up running away.

As the series progressed, so did the amount of violence that KA was comfortable detailing. Let me emphasize that the level of violence probably didn't increase, just the amount that was given detail. I think probably books 1-6 were pretty blase on the violence count. #7, for me, is the first one that sticks out as having a really gruesome battle, when Rachel fought that battle on the tower in her Grizzly morph and lost an arm. Still, the grizzly has conveniently weak eyes, so not too much could be actually described in a visual sense.

The violence sort of hit its stride with the coming of the David trilogy. Rachel biting her tail off was definitely an intense moment. You also have David hitting Ax with a baseball bat so hard that part of his beak falls off, and the whole Jake-gushing-blood-out-of-his-neck thing.

Progress further into the series and you have Ax posing as a torturer, many many throats being ripped out, a few dozen (or hundred?) Taxxons exploding their gooey entrails and so on and so forth. In my mind this kind of culminates in what I think is Megamorphs 4, Back to Before, when Jake faces the dying Controller who keeps saying "I'm cold." and begging for a chance at life. Jake, knowing the Yeerk and the human will die, turns and walks away.

Flash forward even further and you have the massacre of tens of thousands of Yeerks in the final battle and, of course, Rachel's death and the deaths of the auxilaries. All in all it ends on a much bloodier note than it began.

Taking all of that into consideration, lets now look at the reader. The series started in 1996 and it has a reading level of 5th grade. That means that the goal audience was about 9-12 years of age (on a side note, I was actually in 5th grade when I started reading them and I was ten). The question then is, can a 9 year old handle the level of violence portrayed in, oh, say, book 32? Maybe not if they just picked it up out of the blue, or after the latest Babysitter's Club mystery. BUT, after the 9 year old has read the first few books, which introduce the reader to the violence slowly, he/she becomes desensitized to the fact that people die and it can be, and in the Ani's case is, bloody.

I also think that its important to mention that KA's message would not translate well if it were a non-violent book series. Also of note, AppleGrant are kind of notorious for violence and the generally weird. Remnants has a scene in which a character is split almost in half by a gigantic knife, Everworld has the main character's walk over a road of humans buried up to the neck in the fourth book, and GONE practically has a lynching scene. They aren't afraid to 'go there'.


So, that was the long answer. The short answer?

No, it was not too explicit. The violence was necessary to effectively convey the message that Applegate was trying to portray. Additionally she approached it in a way that allowed for the audience to become accustomed to the violence over time and, therefore, not traumatized by it. In fact, the violence allowed for enough 'realism' to make a science fiction children's series realistic and even believable, and kept the readers hooked and waiting for more.


/endnovel

here's another train of thought. maybe the showing more and more illustrate gore show chase the increasing desperation that the anis face.

also show's the crass difference between idealistic "we will beat them" and the cold hard reality of what those words actually mean and the costs.

also another point worth pointing out is the mood of "beware he hunts monsters, lest he become one"

 
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Beware of he who would deny you access to information. For in his heart, he dreams himself your master
Quote from: K.A. Applegate
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Offline Essam 293

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Re: Gore and violence in Animorphs. Was it too explicit?
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2009, 12:38:51 AM »
Progress further into the series and you have Ax posing as a torturer

Good points all around. But when did Ax pose as a torturer?


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Offline anijen21

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Re: Gore and violence in Animorphs. Was it too explicit?
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2009, 12:45:13 AM »
#31
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Offline Terenia

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Re: Gore and violence in Animorphs. Was it too explicit?
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2009, 08:44:32 AM »

here's another train of thought. maybe the showing more and more illustrate gore show chase the increasing desperation that the anis face.

also show's the crass difference between idealistic "we will beat them" and the cold hard reality of what those words actually mean and the costs.

also another point worth pointing out is the mood of "beware he hunts monsters, lest he become one"

 

That's very true. I remember in book 17 Tobias says something along the lines of "We have to win" and Rachel notes that no matter who you are or what your reasons, those four words are the first four steps on the path to hell.

By showing as much violence as they did they managed to bring up quite a few moral issues that may have otherwise been avoided. I do like the contrast between the Animorphs in the beginning when they're all "yay, lets beat the Yeerks!" - except Marco - and in the end when you see just how war-torn their goal has made them. That couldn't occur without a large amount of violence, and I don't think the reader would appreciate it as well without the violence being described.

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Offline Chad32

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Re: Gore and violence in Animorphs. Was it too explicit?
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2009, 10:17:45 AM »
I agree with terenia. she could have also been doing it to ease us into things. I mean she didn't want to scare the kids away, but later when they were older and more used to the kind of stuf she showed, she went a bit further with it. That was smart thinking, I believe.


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Offline Elfangor Sirinial Shamtul

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Re: Gore and violence in Animorphs. Was it too explicit?
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2009, 10:49:30 AM »
I kinda liked it, but i think its because i watch too much NCIS tee hee my fav. character is rachel, but thats because shes cool, i share her name and hair, and she loves battle!
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Re: Gore and violence in Animorphs. Was it too explicit?
« Reply #26 on: November 26, 2009, 12:56:03 AM »
(glares at overtly insensitive comment)

The reason they had gore was to show the harsh realties of war and the fact that probably after book 6 applegate realised that there was going to be blood (or maybe she just used her first six books to draw in the audience). They have gore in the animorphs because they are fighting with blunt physical force and there is alot of teeth. However, she has almost no human gore in the series, plenty of Hork-Bajir, taxxon (who are basically walking bags of guts), and animal gore. However, the gore in her series is understandable sometimes I get so sick of gore displayed in movies (like Saw whatever sequel they have now) video games (like mortal combat) that are just gore for the sake of gore  :P  >:( . I admire her intellect to keep things sane. It was more gory then most kid books (even alex Rider where he gets at shot continually) but it had to be.
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Re: Gore and violence in Animorphs. Was it too explicit?
« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2009, 11:15:06 AM »
The way the Animorphs always heal after made it less violent in my mind... I think Everworld and Remnants were more "gore"...
And I think it's useful when you want to depict the war. Do as some writer for kids who say "he dies" and don't say more... the character dies, it's sad, but... you don't see it like a true death. You don't that it may have been violent or hurtful for the person, you don't imagine what the other characters can see and what they would think...
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Offline voodooqueen126

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Re: Gore and violence in Animorphs. Was it too explicit?
« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2009, 08:30:33 PM »
if as someone said it is not that series get more violent towards the end (except for the violent final book) but detailed description increases.
However someone else said that the increasing violence is symbolic of the slide away from 'black and white/we must win idealism towards 'grey/war is hell message...

Offline Elfangor Sirinial Shamtul

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Re: Gore and violence in Animorphs. Was it too explicit?
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2009, 09:02:32 PM »
I still think Rachel is the coolest
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