Animorphs kill-count?

[Venus]

I think Tobias has enough to angst about without realising that he's probably indirectly killed more hosts than any other teammate, due to onlly be able to maim instead of kill.

Oh god, tell me about it. That would be one heck of a freak out if he ever made that connection.

[anijen21]

maybe we should make a "casualties of the animorphs" list rather than "deaths caused by the animorphs," which would de-ambiguate the possible deaths or great injuries

lol de-ambiguate

[ThinkAgain]

This seems interesting. My only concern is about the kills/casualties that were not explicitly described.

For one, the war took place over three years, and the books did not cover that span of time. There were most definitely skirmishes in the background. Two, even in books, not all kills are talked about. While Marco is narrating and describing how he punched out a Hork-Bajir, Rachel may have just killed two Taxxons. It isn't very specific.

It would be interesting to find out the number of in canon kills, but still, it can't be regarded as accurate.   

And back to Tobias indirectly killing hosts, I think that even if the connection was made in the books, he would still be forced to do so. A blind Hork-Bajir, while doomed, is less likely to gore one of the Animorphs than one with functioning sight. Despite moral conflicts, I'm pretty sure the Animorphs would be willing to sacrifice one or two nameless Hork-Bajir to save each other. And, what is the difference between Visser Three having the hosts killed later, or Jake goring them now?

[goom]

instead of attacking unhosted yeerks in their pool they attacked them in their infested hosts causing more damage to the innocent host rather than the slave master.

yeah..
i always thought it was strange that they'd hesitate to kill yeerks in their 'defenseless' natural state, but wouldn't hesitate to go for the controller.

[ThinkAgain]

yeah..
i always thought it was strange that they'd hesitate to kill yeerks in their 'defenseless' natural state, but wouldn't hesitate to go for the controller.

One is just a helpless slug floating in some fluid... the other is controlling a seven foot tall alien that won't hesitate to gut you. Your morals will change very quickly when your life is suddenly thrust into immediate danger.

[Venus]

And back to Tobias indirectly killing hosts, I think that even if the connection was made in the books, he would still be forced to do so. A blind Hork-Bajir, while doomed, is less likely to gore one of the Animorphs than one with functioning sight. Despite moral conflicts, I'm pretty sure the Animorphs would be willing to sacrifice one or two nameless Hork-Bajir to save each other. And, what is the difference between Visser Three having the hosts killed later, or Jake goring them now?

That's true for Hork Bajir, but they also had to fight human controllers. And to answer your question, while the others are usually in morphs strong enough to kill both the host and yeerk together, Tobias as a hawk can only cause an injury that would probably lead to the host being disposed of, but the yeerk itself would live. So the enemy he's actually fighting would get away uninjured and able to infest again while the innocent host is taken out. Yeah it's a necessity that Tobias would have to do whether he made the connection or not, but man would he have angst about it later. For a while he was having guilt issues killing prey in his field, so making a realization like that would mess him up pretty badly. Would have actually made a pretty interesting plot point, i wish Applegate had thought of it.

[Tiana]

yeah..
i always thought it was strange that they'd hesitate to kill yeerks in their 'defenseless' natural state, but wouldn't hesitate to go for the controller.

One is just a helpless slug floating in some fluid... the other is controlling a seven foot tall alien that won't hesitate to gut you. Your morals will change very quickly when your life is suddenly thrust into immediate danger.

Very true, but the "defenseless" Yeerks deserve to die more than their poor controllers.

[anijen21]

I don't know if I agree that blinded Hork-Bajir are useless. They may not have eyes, but they still have boy and girl parts to make more Hork-Bajir with eyes. Then again this capability of hosts never seemed to occur to the Yeerks, since it seems pretty taboo in Visser to *engage in primitive mating rituals* using hosts. But I thought that was dumbbb so I am going to pretend that in some little corner of his deranged, violent mind, Visser Three had the calculating, economic frugality to use his resources effectively rather than just killing everything that even slightly pissed him off or inconvenienced him.

[DinosaurNothlit]

I don't know if I agree that blinded Hork-Bajir are useless. They may not have eyes, but they still have boy and girl parts to make more Hork-Bajir with eyes. Then again this capability of hosts never seemed to occur to the Yeerks, since it seems pretty taboo in Visser to *engage in primitive mating rituals* using hosts. But I thought that was dumbbb so I am going to pretend that in some little corner of his deranged, violent mind, Visser Three had the calculating, economic frugality to use his resources effectively rather than just killing everything that even slightly pissed him off or inconvenienced him.

That's a good point.  Also, Hork-Bajir were so rare (on account of the quantum virus + Visser Three's temper tantrums + the Animorphs), would the Yeerks have killed them off on account of disabilities like blindness?  Or would they have just been forced to deal with it?

No question, though, that a blind human would be disposed of.

yeah..
i always thought it was strange that they'd hesitate to kill yeerks in their 'defenseless' natural state, but wouldn't hesitate to go for the controller.

One is just a helpless slug floating in some fluid... the other is controlling a seven foot tall alien that won't hesitate to gut you. Your morals will change very quickly when your life is suddenly thrust into immediate danger.

Very true, but the "defenseless" Yeerks deserve to die more than their poor controllers.

I wouldn't agree with that.  Is simply being born into a certain species enough to merit their death?

At least with controllers, you know that the Yeerk is out to get you.  Yeah, the host is innocent, but you tend not to see that when they're trying to kill you.  It's self defense.

When you're killing unhosted Yeerks, you are doing it for no reason other than simply to kill them.  It's pretty much murder.

It's hard to say which is worse, but they're both pretty reprehensible.

[Homiegee]

Just got through re-reading Book 13 (the one where Tobias gets his morphing powers back) and actually discovered something contrary to what we've been discussing.

Jer Hamee cuts his head open to reveal his brain so the Animorphs know he isn't infested, but then the wound heals almost instantly. I'd assume that Hork-Bajir would also be able to regenerate damaged eyes in this manner as well, but then again I wouldn't know.

Another item of note is that before Book 13 none of the Animorphs had ever even thought that a Hork-Bajir could be a non-controller. I suppose that when you're involved in a war you really can't stop to think about things real deeply.

That's a good point about the series not specifying exactly how many controllers/Yeerks were killed. The most specific is probably the 17,000 number. But it would be interesting to see who killed the most.

[Darth Revan]

I think that if you're looking at a body count, it should be the kills that the animorph MAKES, not one's that they're responsible for.

If you're asking for a body count, it means: You shot him, he's yours. A solider gets a body count, not the soldier's seargent, not the solider's general, but the solider. A fighter pilot has a death count, not the navigator who relayed the enemy position.

You bite, you slash, you claw, you kill; you get the count. Not, you order, you scheme, you mention; you get the count.

Indirect doesn't matter when it comes to a body count. If you wound someone, and then they get shot because they weren't fast enough to run away, the person that ended their life gets the kill, not you.

When talking about tallying a body count, only the life you physically stopped counts.

[voodooqueen126]

by killing as many unhosted yeerks you are preserving the freedom of their future hosts and therefore preventing those future hosted yeerks from killing you or enslaving others. Look at this way: there is a contagious parasite, would you rather kill the host to prevent the spread or simply drain the swamp where the parasites come from. It's a fair comparison, sentient and nice as yeerks are as individuals when they are invading your planet they are still a disease to be cured or prevented.

[AniDragon]

I think that if you're looking at a body count, it should be the kills that the animorph MAKES, not one's that they're responsible for.

If you're asking for a body count, it means: You shot him, he's yours. A solider gets a body count, not the soldier's seargent, not the solider's general, but the solider. A fighter pilot has a death count, not the navigator who relayed the enemy position.

You bite, you slash, you claw, you kill; you get the count. Not, you order, you scheme, you mention; you get the count.

Indirect doesn't matter when it comes to a body count. If you wound someone, and then they get shot because they weren't fast enough to run away, the person that ended their life gets the kill, not you.

When talking about tallying a body count, only the life you physically stopped counts.

In that case... Wouldn't Ax get the body count for flushing the Yeerks? 'Cause I seem to recall that he's the one who actually did it, even though Jake ordered it. Ax is also the one who suggested it.

[Darth Revan]

Definitely, If ax dumped 'em, he gets the count.

[Tiana]

Very true, but the "defenseless" Yeerks deserve to die more than their poor controllers.

I wouldn't agree with that.  Is simply being born into a certain species enough to merit their death?

At least with controllers, you know that the Yeerk is out to get you.  Yeah, the host is innocent, but you tend not to see that when they're trying to kill you.  It's self defense.

When you're killing unhosted Yeerks, you are doing it for no reason other than simply to kill them.  It's pretty much murder.

It's hard to say which is worse, but they're both pretty reprehensible.

Have to disagree with you there.

By killing a Controller, you'd be killing someone who was forced to do acts against their will. The host is not trying to kill you but they are being made to do so, and will be killed because of the Yeerk's actions, not their own.

Nowhere did I say that being in a certain species merits their death. But regarding the Yeerks, once they began to enslave and murder other species, the bets are off when it comes to their own.