Cassie's Greatest Hits

[wotw2112]

Really? I remember them all deciding yes, but Cassie's the only one to actually vote yes?

I'm not sure why it would amount to a zoo if they were relocated, though. I guess I really don't remember book 7 all that much.

Tobias said no instantly.  Rachel was an assumed no (she didn't object to that assumption).  Marco was the third and deciding vote.  Jake never really said anything.  All the while Cassie whined and moaned as usual.  This was one good example of how easily she could put her moralizing aside in the face of selfish desires.

It wasn't technically a "zoo".  It was a replacement earth where they (and their families) would be transported to be "preserved".  I just recall one of the characters relating it to a zoo so I followed suit.

[DinosaurNothlit]

Well I am going to be different and vote one of my favorite Cassie moments had to be when she went humpback whale to get rid of Visser Three's "pet" at the end of Megamorphs #1.

When I first saw the thread title, I actually sort of assumed this was what it was.  Greatest hits, and all.  Granted that I'm no fan of Cassie's (have to agree with the general sentiment by pointing out she's my least favorite character, and that includes Taylor and David by the way), but come on, there are plenty of threads already out there for talking about her lowest points.  Let's change the tune a bit, eh?  QIfry has the right idea, I think.

My all-time favorite Cassie-moment was in #50, when she was furiously explaining to her parents that this was a war, and people die.  This is Cassie, the most innocent by far of the Animorphs, explaining to her parents, which are supposed to be the role models and authority figures of any kid her age, the gristly and horrifying realities of war.  That was a beautiful scene, chock full of lovely character development.  That (ought to have) really brought the war home for her.

Shame that she lost all that character development even before the end of the book.  But still, it was nice while it lasted.

[wotw2112]

Not the purpose of the topic.  Take it somewhere else please. 

[Chad32]

Well, it's pretty obvious a person is self centered if they aren't willing to sacrifice a part of them for the greater good. Cassie cares for people, and as long as it doesn't go against her ideals, she will be helpful and everything. However if it does go against her ideals, even if it would help more than it hurt, she will not do it. There is a point where she will put herself above everything else, and I can relate to that. It's a flaw, but I'm not sure if the series really treats it as such.

[NateSean]

Not the purpose of the topic.  Take it somewhere else please. 

A well rounded discussion includes all points of view. As stated there are a number of Cassie bashing threads.

For my two cents, Cassie's moralizing does get in the way. Taking that risk with letting Tom get the cube was a dangerous gamble but then it was no different to Tobias making a decision to wipe out an entire species just because no one ever found a Mercora fossil. The difference being that Cassie has been in the shoes of a Yeerk. She has been infested and she has morphed a Yeerk, thus she had a greater understanding of the Yeerks and her gamble was at least based on experience and not the fossil record as of the late 90's.

When push comes to shove and she is forced to stand alone Cassie will bring her A game on as proven in The Sickness. In a way, having the other Animorphs around her is what allows her to be so moralizing and self righteous because it's someone else's hands getting dirty while she holds back and tells herself, "I'm a good person, because I am not doing what other people are doing."

[Chad32]

I think I remember Cassie comparing studying Yeerks to studying some disease or similar, and this was after 19 and possibly 29. It seemed weird to have Cassie say something like that, since she's the most sympathetic to Yeerks. Maybe it was just the author, though. I'm not sure.

[Underseen]

Giving the Buffa-Human a chance was pretty dumb to me.

[Chad32]

Actually I found it interesting that an animal can use a Human brain to learn to speak. Possibly gain sentience. I just wish it wasn't Chapman that he wound up morphing. The way the buffalo got morphing power goes against the way I thought the cube worked, but aside from being weird it was kind of interesting how the animal learned things with a more developed mind. That was the best part of the book.

[wotw2112]

The difference being that Cassie has been in the shoes of a Yeerk. She has been infested and she has morphed a Yeerk, thus she had a greater understanding of the Yeerks and her gamble was at least based on experience and not the fossil record as of the late 90's.

I would think this perspective would have made her LESS likely to trust the Yeerks.  When put in context, they're miserable blind little slugs whose biological imperative (and natural inclinations) is to take over other hosts.  That is their morality.  (The fact that Aftran moralized like a human being would was a major flaw in my opinions.)  The Yeerk Peace Movement (stupid as it was) could be explained, if it has to be, as an almost meaningless minority viewpoint.  To think it was that prevalent would be like intimating that the Tea Party is really what all Americans want to be at heart.  So circling back around to my eventual point: this seems like an awful basis upon which to give up the Escafil Device.

Honestly, better explanations would be "woman's intuition" or her role as a "time-space anomaly".  Some nonsense about her just having "sensed it needed to be done".  That would be more in keeping with her at times nonsensical character anyway.

Not the purpose of the topic.  Take it somewhere else please. 

So this is just a bash cassie thread? Dislike..

Incredibly helpful!  Thanks for such useful and on topic feedback!  The above is an example of the debate I want to have out of this post.  Not: is Cassie awesome?

And I know the definition of debate NateSean.  A debate generally has structured boundaries (we call these rules).  I've framed this particular discussion as creator of the topic.  It's anyone who chooses to ignore that framing that is off topic.  So thanks for smiting me for making a pointed topic that isn't interested in debating what's been reflected elsewhere ad nauseum.  Really awesome of you. 

I won't smite you back in retaliation cause that's kind of a bag thing to do.  And you made a good on-topic point.  But still, thanks for being a grown up.

Tangent: why does this site's spellchecker not recognize the work "Yeerk"?  Come on!

[Chad32]

I assume that this spellchecker isn't customized for the site.

Just because you instinctively do something doesn't make it right. Humans have no instinctual drive to care about strangers and people that look different. In fact our instincts tell us to stay away from and ostracize people that look different from us. That's the whole reason why racism, xenophobia, homophobia, and similar things exist. We care about ourselves. We care about our families. This has enabled out species to survive for a long time. You have to teach people to not be self centered and not have moral myopia. Some tidal wave hit a city across the world and a dozen people died. So what? There's nothing in our biology that would make us empathize with those people.

As you become more advanced and more civilized, you learn things like it's not ok to kill someone because they look different or because they crossed into your property without your permission. Or at least some people are taught that, because it has to be taught. Is there any other real life species that came up with the decision that it's not ok to force sex on someone?

I can understand the Yeerk morality that they evolved to do what they do. It doesn't make it right any more than me raping a woman and killing her children because that will help spread my genes and keep my line alive is right. Or that all the local women belong to me because I'm the biggest, meanest man around, and if I catch any of you guys trying to bone MY women I'll kill you. This is the morality of many species on Earth, but it's not right. Equality is right.

[yunyun]

I think one of the coolest thing that Cassie did would be removing Ax's whatever gland right after rescuing a Yeerk from the Yeerk pool

[Chad32]

Aftran: He's starting to scream
Cassie: Really? Am I hurting him?
Aftran: No Cassie. He's screaming because he has a Yeerk in his head.

funniest part of 29.

I suppose I could bash Cassie for not mentioning that Erek could make a portable kandrona machine for her to live without having to go back to the Yeerk pool. It may have made her character more interesting, helped up sympathize with voluntary hosts and Yeerks, and given the YPM a bigger role if Cassie became a voluntary controller. Though it's probably for the best that she didn't.

[wotw2112]

I assume that this spellchecker isn't customized for the site.

Damn!

I can understand the Yeerk morality that they evolved to do what they do. It doesn't make it right any more than me raping a woman and killing her children because that will help spread my genes and keep my line alive is right. Or that all the local women belong to me because I'm the biggest, meanest man around, and if I catch any of you guys trying to bone MY women I'll kill you. This is the morality of many species on Earth, but it's not right. Equality is right.

I'm going to sound like a dick saying this but: you're assuming there is an empirical, universal morality.  Another viewpoint (similar to your first part of the post) views morality as essentially a social contract defined by the needs of society (which is why we can call rape immoral though the rest of the animal kingdom has different thoughts on the matter).  That said, that means "human morality" would be irrelevant to the Yeerks.  In fact, it would make no sense to them whatsoever (most likely) as their societal construct and needs are very different from humans.  Which is why I found Aftran's moralizing as a human would to be so annoying.

Of course, that doesn't preclude a small segment of any population from breaking with the mainstream.  Still, such a fundamental break from Yeerk-psychology (the recognition of the concept of "slavery") seems far-fetched.

[Chad32]

Yeah, morality changes, though you could say just because something is largely accepted doesn't make it right. Now obviously hosts have some effect on Yeerks. Taxxon controllers are more primal, Hork-Bajir controllers are sometimes less intelligent, and Human controllers can be more emotional. Yeerks know that a happy host is good for both sides. You don't have to tie them up or throw them in a cage if they're voluntary, though some restrictions would be in place even for voluntaries. Taxxons and Hork-Bajir are easier to ignore because Taxxons aren't much more than animals and Hork-Bajir have underdeveloped brains. Humans are different, and it's living with Humans that begins to change them.

I really don't think it just comes out of nowhere that some Yeerks begin to believe what they're doing is wrong, especially since lower ranking Yeerks aren't treated much better than hosts.

Now I know some fans still don't sympathize with Yeerks even after 19, 29, and whatever other books paint them in a better light than always chaotic evil. Yeerks have practically full control over their hosts, but their mentality is closely tied with their host. Visser Three wasn't nearly as bad as he was until he took a host that hated his very existence. You can become hardened by war without becoming a total psychopath that kills someone just for not being a hypercompetent yes man, if you happen to be lower ranking than him.

[QIfry]

I suppose I could bash Cassie for not mentioning that Erek could make a portable kandrona machine for her to live without having to go back to the Yeerk pool. It may have made her character more interesting, helped up sympathize with voluntary hosts and Yeerks, and given the YPM a bigger role if Cassie became a voluntary controller. Though it's probably for the best that she didn't.

Holy crap that would have been an awesome mini-arc!