Author Topic: Group Re-Read: Week 1, #1 The Invasion  (Read 18426 times)

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Offline Slushie Man

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Re: Group Re-Read: Week 1, #1 The Invasion
« Reply #30 on: July 28, 2008, 12:01:11 AM »
"Furthermore Ax never says Elfangor had a family of his own."

Just cause he never says it, doesn't mean it isn't true. If he said he didn't have a family, that's one thing, but since he never said anything one way or the other, then it's up for us to decide.

"I know that Tobias had a crappy life, but I highly doubt that he hated it so much he'd  become a hawk to escape his troubled home life."


He kept getting moved between two guardians that hated him and treated him like ****, and it wasn't just his home life; he had no friends before the night they became Animorphs, and he was constantly being picked on and bullied. Add all that together, and he had a life he really wanted away from. Although I agree, I don't think it was ENTIRELY intentional, but at the same time, I feel he knew it was going to happen going into the Yeerk Pool, and he didn't do anything to try and stop it either.

"He probably thought of it as the perfect escape from his crappy life."

Exactly. It mirrors being addicted to drugs VERY well. Now he's stuck with it, with no hope of ever being free from it.

 


Offline wolfev

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Re: Group Re-Read: Week 1, #1 The Invasion
« Reply #31 on: July 28, 2008, 12:51:45 AM »
yea, but drugs usually destroy your life. I don't think he hates being a hawk, he just wants what he always wanted. To be happy as a human. Ironically he didn't have this as a human so really the hawk is a step up. Hes in charge of his life and can fly. Here is a better example. I stole this from a commentary on Evangelion by the way. Tobias' bird morph is a symbol of his puberty. He is becoming an adult and coming into a new body that seems alien to him. Yes there are a lot of good things and bad things. He can fly yes but he also has to deal with hunting. The biggest part is that Tobias now as an adult has to make his own choices to survive because he is on his own. There is this almost primal link in his rebirth. He is returning to the wild where puberty means you have to be an adult right away. There is no easing into adult hood slowly, rather you are thrust into it. Or as my good friend Sigmund Freud tells me when I go farther than he would even go, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar and sometimes a beak and wings are just a beak and wings.
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Offline Slushie Man

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Re: Group Re-Read: Week 1, #1 The Invasion
« Reply #32 on: July 28, 2008, 01:18:13 AM »
I don't think he hates being a hawk

No, in Book 3, he out and out hates it and realizes his mistake. He even seriously tries to commit suicide, so he wouldn't have to stay as a hawk anymore. After Marco saves him from himself, he starts accepting his situation a bit more and gets a bit more used to it.

Offline Tiana

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Re: Group Re-Read: Week 1, #1 The Invasion
« Reply #33 on: July 28, 2008, 01:30:14 AM »
"Furthermore Ax never says Elfangor had a family of his own."

Just cause he never says it, doesn't mean it isn't true. If he said he didn't have a family, that's one thing, but since he never said anything one way or the other, then it's up for us to decide.

I'm pretty sure Ax would've mentioned something if Elfangor had a family. Plus, wouldn't the burden of killing Visser Three then fall on Elfangor's kids as well?

Ax described his brother in every book; he definitely would've brought up his family if there was one.

Offline morfowt

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Re: Group Re-Read: Week 1, #1 The Invasion
« Reply #34 on: July 28, 2008, 02:16:06 AM »
3) The infamous KASU of book #1: Do you think that KA should have kept thought-speak the way it was in the first book, so that they could thought-speak even in human form? Or does it make more sense the way it ended up? If I remember correctly some of the ghostwriters have Ax and Tobias capable of thought-speaking in human morph later on in the series. What do you think about that?

I don't remember them thought-speaking while in human form in the first book. I may be mistaken though, but I'm pretty sure they don't. As for Ax thought-speaking in human-morph - In all morphs, they can thought-speak as well as speak in the creature's language (Be it various animal noises, ect). This is no different. It's a morph. Ax can speak in human language as well as thought-speak. it's no different then Cassie using Dolphin clicks in that morph, or all of them howling various pitches as wolves.

actually, thought-speaking in human morphs is debatable. In #33, ax thought-speaks while human at the community center, but in #23, Tobias and the others use signals to say ok and trouble, meaning tobias couldn't thought-speak as human, and in #8, Ax clearly says he can't thought-speak in human morph. so whether they can or can't is debatable.

Offline Slushie Man

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Re: Group Re-Read: Week 1, #1 The Invasion
« Reply #35 on: July 28, 2008, 08:40:39 AM »
"wouldn't the burden of killing Visser Three then fall on Elfangor's kids?"

No. It says in Book 4, that young Andalites are not allowed to fight. Actually, Even Ax himself is too young to fight, according to their laws. Plus, nobody knows yet that Visser Three has killed Elfangor, so how would his kids know that he needs avenging? While Ax does know.

Offline Terenia

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Re: Group Re-Read: Week 1, #1 The Invasion
« Reply #36 on: July 28, 2008, 12:25:08 PM »
Well, in book #8 everyone finds out that Elfangor was killed when Ax contacts the homeworld. Thats when he and his dad do their little ritual basically confirming that Ax is the one who needs to avenge Elfangor's death. If Elfangor had kids then it may have fallen to a son, but probably not a daughter. In addition the son would have to be of fighting age. So on the off-chance Elfangor had a family (I don't think he did. I'm a romantic: I don't think he ever entirely got over Loren) it would be Ax's duty until his eldest son was old enough to take it upon himself.

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Offline Gafrash

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Re: Group Re-Read: Week 1, #1 The Invasion
« Reply #37 on: July 29, 2008, 03:54:56 AM »
I am of the opinion Ax would have stated somewhere, had Elfangor been a husband/father in the homeworld.

Going off in a tangent, I haven't read this book in a long time now. Can anyone tell me if Tom is shown going to the same high school as Jake and the others?

Offline morfowt

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Re: Group Re-Read: Week 1, #1 The Invasion
« Reply #38 on: July 29, 2008, 04:01:51 AM »
Nope, didn't say, although the  word, used to, was used, so I'm guessing no.

Offline Gafrash

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Re: Group Re-Read: Week 1, #1 The Invasion
« Reply #39 on: July 29, 2008, 04:10:04 AM »
Hmmmm.....

That kinda kills an idea I had of showing Tom. It would be an ambiguous scene where we could show Tom hitting on this chick at school and would be a sort of introduction to a manifestation of The Sharing in the Animorphs' school.
It was just an idea.

Offline morfowt

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Re: Group Re-Read: Week 1, #1 The Invasion
« Reply #40 on: July 29, 2008, 04:20:36 AM »
well you could still do that, but about a year or so before the animorphs became...well...ani morphs.

Offline Gafrash

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Re: Group Re-Read: Week 1, #1 The Invasion
« Reply #41 on: July 29, 2008, 04:26:33 AM »
HEY! Good point!

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Offline Terenia

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Re: Group Re-Read: Week 1, #1 The Invasion
« Reply #42 on: July 29, 2008, 04:51:12 PM »
It mentions that Tom used to be the star of the junior high basketball team and was now the main shooter at the high school. So at this point in the story I would guess Jake is in 7th grade (he's 13 years old, that would be 7th or 8th grade) and Tom is in 9th  or 10th grade. We don't know yet if Tom can drive (I don't think) so he probably is younger than 16 still.

But if Jake is in 8th grade and Tom is in 10th grade then they would have been in 6th and 8th grade two years prior, which would put them both in middle school.

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Offline Kharina

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Re: Group Re-Read: Week 1, #1 The Invasion
« Reply #43 on: July 30, 2008, 03:48:29 PM »
Summary
Sometimes weird things happen to people. Ask Jake. He may tell you about the night he and his friends saw the strange light in the sky. He may even tell you about what happened when they realized the "light" was only a plane - from another planet. Here's where Jakes story gets a little weird. It's where they're told that the human race is under attack - and given the chance to fight back.

Now Jake, Rachel, Cassie, Tobias and Marco have the power to morph into any animal they choose. And they must use that power to outsmart an evil that is greater than anything the world has ever seen...


Questions

1) When Elfangor and Visser Three interact their conversation is very impersonal. How much of their history do you think that KA had figured out at this point?

2) Elfangor's fighter is equipped with two oddities: a family picture and an Escafil Device. Why do you think Elfangor would have these items on a fighter? Especially the Escafil Device - as a fighter pilot, it seems odd that Elfangor would have the added responsibility of guarding a piece of Andalite technology as he rides into battle.

3) The infamous KASU of book #1: Do you think that KA should have kept thought-speak the way it was in the first book, so that they could thought-speak even in human form? Or does it make more sense the way it ended up? If I remember correctly some of the ghostwriters have Ax and Tobias capable of thought-speaking in human morph later on in the series. What do you think about that?

4) How much of an 'accident' do you think Tobias getting stuck in morph was?

5) What do you think of the way KA portrays each of their personalities in this book? This is when we're introduced to the characters, and they're all still incredibly naive. What do you think about how they start out?

6) Cassie is, surprisingly, the first person to agree to receive the morphing power and fight. What do you think about that?

Feel free to answer these questions or not, add your own, etc. Next weeks book will be #2: The Visitor.



1)  Although I doubt she had the whole history figured out, it didn't seem that impersonal: after all, V3 goes out of his way to humiliate and torture Elfangor by eating him.  A more sensible course of action for an Andalite he had less of an emotive relationship with would have been to stun and then infest, thus gaining a second morph-capable Andalite host.  Another reason for V3 not doing this, of course, is that he isn't about to give up his position as sole Andalite-Controller very easily.

2) The family picture doesn't seem odd: I can understand why Elfangor would want something to remember his family by while in space.  The Escafil Device IS odd, because I can't see why it would be standard issue in a fighter, as it's illegal to give the technology to other species, and all members of the Andalite military already have it.  Plus there's the risk of the Yeerks getting hold of it.  And as Elfangor was originally going down to Earth to find the Time Matrix (and that when he saw the battle had failed and was desperate), I can't see why he would have taken the device with him.  All I can suggest is the Ellimist "not interfering" again :P  (Isn't it useful how you can attribute all plot holes to him?)

3)  I can understand how Ax can use thought-speak in human morph, as human is a morph just like any other, so thought-speech should be built in.  The fact that humans have an alternative means of communicating shouldn't matter, as the Anis morph other creatures who have their own means of communicating (dolphins, for example, or Hork-Bajir) yet can still thought-speak. However, if I remember rightly Jake thought-speaks in this book, which he shouldn't be able to do as it's his own natural body, and as Andalites already have that capability in their own body I can't see why it would be built into the technology. After Tobias is trapped, however, it would make sense for him to be able to use thought-speech as a human as it is a morph after that point, just like any other. But yeah, it's a KASU. 

4)  I think it was definitely partly an accident, but I think he may not have tried as hard as he perhaps could have done to save himself from being trapped.

5)  They cope with it better than I would have done.  Even Marco, who's pretty reluctant at first. :P  It was a fairly realistic portrayal of how 13 year olds might react, IMO.  Perhaps not totally realistic, but it is fiction.

6)  Well, at this point I don't think Cassie quite realises how much fighting may clash with her morals.  Also, I think Cassie would have had one of the strongest senses of duty to do what was right, and with her ability to read people, I think she will have been more trusting of Elfangor and more able to see he was telling the truth than perhaps some of the others.  Plus, as an animal-lover, the idea of turning into them must have seemed especially cool to her :P

Offline wolfev

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Re: Group Re-Read: Week 1, #1 The Invasion
« Reply #44 on: July 30, 2008, 04:25:17 PM »
Since Tobias was trapped in a hawk making that his natural form wouldn't that mean he should not be able to thought speak? Or is it just an artifact of the andalite technology that he still can. That would mean if he became a human nothlit he could still use thought speak.
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