Richard's Animorphs Forum
Animorphs Section => Group Re-Reads => Animorphs Forum Classic => Past Re-Reads => Topic started by: Terenia on July 26, 2008, 11:21:04 AM
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Summary
Sometimes weird things happen to people. Ask Jake. He may tell you about the night he and his friends saw the strange light in the sky. He may even tell you about what happened when they realized the "light" was only a plane - from another planet. Here's where Jakes story gets a little weird. It's where they're told that the human race is under attack - and given the chance to fight back.
Now Jake, Rachel, Cassie, Tobias and Marco have the power to morph into any animal they choose. And they must use that power to outsmart an evil that is greater than anything the world has ever seen...
Questions
1) When Elfangor and Visser Three interact their conversation is very impersonal. How much of their history do you think that KA had figured out at this point?
2) Elfangor's fighter is equipped with two oddities: a family picture and an Escafil Device. Why do you think Elfangor would have these items on a fighter? Especially the Escafil Device - as a fighter pilot, it seems odd that Elfangor would have the added responsibility of guarding a piece of Andalite technology as he rides into battle.
3) The infamous KASU of book #1: Do you think that KA should have kept thought-speak the way it was in the first book, so that they could thought-speak even in human form? Or does it make more sense the way it ended up? If I remember correctly some of the ghostwriters have Ax and Tobias capable of thought-speaking in human morph later on in the series. What do you think about that?
4) How much of an 'accident' do you think Tobias getting stuck in morph was?
5) What do you think of the way KA portrays each of their personalities in this book? This is when we're introduced to the characters, and they're all still incredibly naive. What do you think about how they start out?
6) Cassie is, surprisingly, the first person to agree to receive the morphing power and fight. What do you think about that?
Feel free to answer these questions or not, add your own, etc. Next weeks book will be #2: The Visitor.
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This is what really confuses me. The portrait is of too adults and two children. However, Elfangor is much older than Ax so this picture seems impossible. Furthermore Ax never says Elfangor had a family of his own.
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That's a good point about the picture. The age gap between Elfangor and Ax was pretty large. Maybe Andalites reach adolescence quicker than humans?
Do you know when Ax says that Elfangor has a family of his own? I don't remember that. I had always assumed he spent all of his time away at war and never settled down.
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The Andaite's have w kids in the picture and Ax didn't meet Elfangor for a while.
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do the characters seem flat to anyone in the first few pages?
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Yeah, they kind of do. I noticed that they all kind of behaved and talked the same way, like they were all the same character. They started to develope their own personality traits later on, though.
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That could be because they're a bunch of normal 13 year old kids at the mall, though. They don't have anything very 'heavy' in their lives to make their distinct personalities stand out in casual conversation. Not like later on when people very quickly get the idea that Rachel is dangerous, for example.
Or maybe KA just wasn't comfortable writing them yet. :P
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I don't think KA had a very definite personality for them. I mean she planned some things like, rachel was going to be the ultimate warrior or whatever, but I don't think she planned about her becoming ruthless like later in the series. I think KA even said it herself that she just chooses like a main personality and later develops it.
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I know thatTobias had a crappy life, but I highly doubt that he hated it so much he'd become a hawk to escape his troubled home life.
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I don't think he intended to become a nothlit at first. I also don't think it was an accident. I think he made the decision to stay past the two hour limit at the last minute.
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I agree that it wasn't entirely accidental. There's too much building up to it. He does stupid stuff, stays in morph too long, constantly uses his hawk morph, daydreams about flying, etc.
It's like he's already trapped in morph before he even makes that last transition into hawk. I think that maybe it wasn't purposeful, but he wasn't that upset by the way things turned out. At least not initially. He probably thought of it as the perfect escape from his crappy life.
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I think it was more of a sub-conscious thing. He feels he doesn't want to, but deep down he does. It's very hard to explain it...
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Hes a hawk trapped in a boys body. Is Tobias human? As the series progresses he gets more strangers genetically. He's a boy who is hawk and half andalite who can later morph.
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Yeah, I think Tobias wins in the freak department, lol. I have this strange vision of Marco birdwatching with a stranger.
"Oh, look at the red-tailed hawk!" - Birdwatcher.
Marco - "Actually that's not a red-tailed hawk at all. It might look like one, but don't be deceived. Flashy feathers and chicken legs aren't everything, you know.
Birdwatcher - "No, I'm pretty sure that's a red-tail. I am a birdwatcher, after all."
Marco - "Yes, but that isn't even really a bird."
Birdwatcher - "Are you on drugs? Hey, why are you even here anyways? I don't know you."
Marco - "I'm a figment of your imagination."
Birdwatcher - "Huh. Maybe I'm on drugs..."
Marco - "Now you're getting it!"
Birdwatcher - "So if that's not a bird...what is it?"
Marco - "Well it is a bird."
Birdwatcher - "Huh?" Scratches head.
Marco - "It's a boy trapped in a bird body."
Birdwatcher - "That is...insane."
Marco - "And that's my line you just stole." Frowns. "Don't make me mad, or I'll call him over here. He's a precision pooper, you know."
Birdwatcher - "Oooookay. So he's a boy stuck in a birds body."
Marco - "Kind of."
Birdwatcher - "Kind of?"
Marco - "Yeah. He's also the time-altered son of an alien warrior who fell in love with a human. In fact, it was his father that gave him the ability to turn into a bird."
Birdwatcher - "Um....I've got to go."
Marco - "Go? Go where?"
Birdwatcher - "To find a new hobby..."
Ugh...sorry for that long completely irrelevant conversation that popped into my head. It made me giggle. You can shoot me now if you so wish.
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i lulzed dont worry :P
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no please that was great. Now that whole ting with Tobias confuses me though. He is the time shifted son? What exactly does that mean? Was Loren pregnant when she met the other guy she married? Did she meet him soon after of something? We know Elfangor's existence was erased because the tiem matrix was still on earth and we use windows. And does that mean that there is Elfangor's DNA in Tobias? Does that tranfer in sxeual intercourse? I know he couldn't morph it because it was never acquired but is it there? Furthermore is Tobia's human DNA still in his nothlit body but can't be morphed so he has to use his time traveled acquired morph. Also since Tobias always morphs to human and his human morph is of him when he was 13 and morphs don't age, doesn't that imply that 16 year old Rachel is fooling around with the body of a 13 year old? And why do all the morphs except the human ones go to the adult stage?
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uh...the last part, It's not just humans, I think the when the morph becomes permanent (become a nothlit), it ages.
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yea but all the animorphs morph adult animals? Should't Tobias morph to about the point he ended puberty?
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huh? wait you lost me there...
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When you morph you morph into the form at the point it was acquired. So if you acquire a 10 year old human, each time you morph it it will be 10 years old. Similarly, if you morph an adult grizzly it will be the same age every time you morph it. Demorphing resets the clock on the DNA. If Tobias became a nothlit in his human morph he would age like any normal human. Similarly, when Tobias is a red-tailed nothlit he ages like a normal hawk (which is why it's such a big deal...hawks don't have a very long lifespan).
Similarly the Rachel morph that Cassie has will always be of Rachel at 13/14. Even when Cassie herself is in her 60's or 70's.
As far as Tobias is concerned, I don't think that their connection is one bound by DNA. Elfangor got Loren pregnant. Then Ellimist eliminated Elfangor from his life and made Loren believe she had been with a different man all along. However, clearly there is some vestigial connection between Tobias and Elfangor (as we see in #1) and even Elfangor and Loren (we see this at the end of the series). So maybe it's something that goes deeper than DNA. Something the Ellimist was unable or unwilling to change.
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6) Cassie is, surprisingly, the first person to agree to receive the morphing power and fight. What do you think about that?
Wow, at first I had to reread that part to double check, but it's true, amazingly. Cassie was the first to say yes, while everyone was still debating about the weirdness of the whole situation. I always thought Tobias was the first to agree, considering how he was the most active in convincing the others later on in book #1. Very very interesting, the person most affected by the killing was the first to enlist. Perhaps she, like the others, were just too naive to grasp what fighting the war encompassed?
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Please, Cassie just wanted to become a horse. And I don't think they were thinking very clearly at the time. It could have been the shock of what they were seeing. I don't think Elfangor ever said they had to kill though. None of them really thought about what had to be done at the time.
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I think tobias was the first to agree, but just didn't say out loud. when he spoke, he didn't say anything about not wanting to do it. what he said was, "he's dying", when the others were arguing whether to do it.
of course he didn't tell them. he didn't have the time to do that. only enough time to give them the morphing power. And the animorphs didn't even know how they were to use the morphing power to defeat the yeerks.
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Yeah, I can't imagine the Ani's going into this thinking they were actually going to kill people. Maybe they understood it in the abstract, but even then? If something like that had happened to me when I was thirteen I don't think I would have understood that part.
I think their first dose of reality that it was their lives on the line was when Jake heard Chapman say "save the head". Something about someone calling out your own death will do that to you, I think. Maybe even more so than watching Elfangor be murdered (which of course was also terrifying. I mean, you agree to enlist in an intergalactic war and the next thing you see is your main guy getting eaten by an alien monster? Not too reassuring...)
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no I don't think so. I think the reality really hit them when they saw the yeerk pool.
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Perhaps a bit off topic, but I always wondered what type of relationship Tobias and Rachel had at this point. Because by book #3 they were almost "confessing" their feelings for each other. Here all we see is Jake's POV of when Tobias landed on Rachel's shoulder as a hawk.
Thoughts?
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I'd been wondering that too, actually. Rachel and Tobias barely know one another, but they are already acting as if there is an attraction of sorts there. I'd be really interested to know how exactly they got to know eachother. Spoiler for a future re-read, but in book #3 we find out (or remember?) that Rachel has a picture of Tobias as a human. If she barely knew Tobias, what's she doing with his picture? Was there already some crushing going on pre-Anilife?
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lol I remember how the TV series attempted to show it, Rachel's little sis took a photo of them while they were talking and Rachel kept the picture.
Hm...did he like her from afar or was the feeling mutual from the very beginning?
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What also confuses me is that Tobias at this point is a wimp while Rachel is the exact opposite. What attracted them in the first place. Oh the picture could have been taken after they met and he started going hawk. Remember Tobias wasn't with Jake the whole time. Him and Rachel could have started something off screen. Is it hinted Tobias trapped himself in this. I think it is.
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1) When Elfangor and Visser Three interact their conversation is very impersonal. How much of their history do you think that KA had figured out at this point?
I think she had the basics of the series down before she started. The finer details though were fleshed out later. There are some minor things in the earlier books that got retconed later though, so that may be one of those.
2) Elfangor's fighter is equipped with two oddities: a family picture and an Escafil Device. Why do you think Elfangor would have these items on a fighter? Especially the Escafil Device - as a fighter pilot, it seems odd that Elfangor would have the added responsibility of guarding a piece of Andalite technology as he rides into battle.
It's not unusual for fighter pilots to decorate the inside of their ****pits with personal pictures of family and friends. As for the Escafil device, maybe his plan was to jump ship and try to escape, and he was trusted with getting the device as far away as possible, so the Yeerks don't get it. but then his fighter got shot down before he got very far, and we know the rest from there.
3) The infamous KASU of book #1: Do you think that KA should have kept thought-speak the way it was in the first book, so that they could thought-speak even in human form? Or does it make more sense the way it ended up? If I remember correctly some of the ghostwriters have Ax and Tobias capable of thought-speaking in human morph later on in the series. What do you think about that?
I don't remember them thought-speaking while in human form in the first book. I may be mistaken though, but I'm pretty sure they don't. As for Ax thought-speaking in human-morph - In all morphs, they can thought-speak as well as speak in the creature's language (Be it various animal noises, ect). This is no different. It's a morph. Ax can speak in human language as well as thought-speak. it's no different then Cassie using Dolphin clicks in that morph, or all of them howling various pitches as wolves.
4) How much of an 'accident' do you think Tobias getting stuck in morph was?
Diffinitly an accident, but not something he was overly worried about at first, as he constantly stated in the first book that he preferred being a hawk to a human. It wasn't really until the third book when the hawk instincts started taking over more and more that he really started regretting it.
5) What do you think of the way KA portrays each of their personalities in this book? This is when we're introduced to the characters, and they're all still incredibly naive. What do you think about how they start out?
They're just normal teens thrust into a hopeless situation. They act exactly as I expected them too.
6) Cassie is, surprisingly, the first person to agree to receive the morphing power and fight. What do you think about that?
Someone had to be the first.
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"Furthermore Ax never says Elfangor had a family of his own."
Just cause he never says it, doesn't mean it isn't true. If he said he didn't have a family, that's one thing, but since he never said anything one way or the other, then it's up for us to decide.
"I know that Tobias had a crappy life, but I highly doubt that he hated it so much he'd become a hawk to escape his troubled home life."
He kept getting moved between two guardians that hated him and treated him like ****, and it wasn't just his home life; he had no friends before the night they became Animorphs, and he was constantly being picked on and bullied. Add all that together, and he had a life he really wanted away from. Although I agree, I don't think it was ENTIRELY intentional, but at the same time, I feel he knew it was going to happen going into the Yeerk Pool, and he didn't do anything to try and stop it either.
"He probably thought of it as the perfect escape from his crappy life."
Exactly. It mirrors being addicted to drugs VERY well. Now he's stuck with it, with no hope of ever being free from it.
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yea, but drugs usually destroy your life. I don't think he hates being a hawk, he just wants what he always wanted. To be happy as a human. Ironically he didn't have this as a human so really the hawk is a step up. Hes in charge of his life and can fly. Here is a better example. I stole this from a commentary on Evangelion by the way. Tobias' bird morph is a symbol of his puberty. He is becoming an adult and coming into a new body that seems alien to him. Yes there are a lot of good things and bad things. He can fly yes but he also has to deal with hunting. The biggest part is that Tobias now as an adult has to make his own choices to survive because he is on his own. There is this almost primal link in his rebirth. He is returning to the wild where puberty means you have to be an adult right away. There is no easing into adult hood slowly, rather you are thrust into it. Or as my good friend Sigmund Freud tells me when I go farther than he would even go, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar and sometimes a beak and wings are just a beak and wings.
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I don't think he hates being a hawk
No, in Book 3, he out and out hates it and realizes his mistake. He even seriously tries to commit suicide, so he wouldn't have to stay as a hawk anymore. After Marco saves him from himself, he starts accepting his situation a bit more and gets a bit more used to it.
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"Furthermore Ax never says Elfangor had a family of his own."
Just cause he never says it, doesn't mean it isn't true. If he said he didn't have a family, that's one thing, but since he never said anything one way or the other, then it's up for us to decide.
I'm pretty sure Ax would've mentioned something if Elfangor had a family. Plus, wouldn't the burden of killing Visser Three then fall on Elfangor's kids as well?
Ax described his brother in every book; he definitely would've brought up his family if there was one.
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3) The infamous KASU of book #1: Do you think that KA should have kept thought-speak the way it was in the first book, so that they could thought-speak even in human form? Or does it make more sense the way it ended up? If I remember correctly some of the ghostwriters have Ax and Tobias capable of thought-speaking in human morph later on in the series. What do you think about that?
I don't remember them thought-speaking while in human form in the first book. I may be mistaken though, but I'm pretty sure they don't. As for Ax thought-speaking in human-morph - In all morphs, they can thought-speak as well as speak in the creature's language (Be it various animal noises, ect). This is no different. It's a morph. Ax can speak in human language as well as thought-speak. it's no different then Cassie using Dolphin clicks in that morph, or all of them howling various pitches as wolves.
actually, thought-speaking in human morphs is debatable. In #33, ax thought-speaks while human at the community center, but in #23, Tobias and the others use signals to say ok and trouble, meaning tobias couldn't thought-speak as human, and in #8, Ax clearly says he can't thought-speak in human morph. so whether they can or can't is debatable.
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"wouldn't the burden of killing Visser Three then fall on Elfangor's kids?"
No. It says in Book 4, that young Andalites are not allowed to fight. Actually, Even Ax himself is too young to fight, according to their laws. Plus, nobody knows yet that Visser Three has killed Elfangor, so how would his kids know that he needs avenging? While Ax does know.
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Well, in book #8 everyone finds out that Elfangor was killed when Ax contacts the homeworld. Thats when he and his dad do their little ritual basically confirming that Ax is the one who needs to avenge Elfangor's death. If Elfangor had kids then it may have fallen to a son, but probably not a daughter. In addition the son would have to be of fighting age. So on the off-chance Elfangor had a family (I don't think he did. I'm a romantic: I don't think he ever entirely got over Loren) it would be Ax's duty until his eldest son was old enough to take it upon himself.
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I am of the opinion Ax would have stated somewhere, had Elfangor been a husband/father in the homeworld.
Going off in a tangent, I haven't read this book in a long time now. Can anyone tell me if Tom is shown going to the same high school as Jake and the others?
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Nope, didn't say, although the word, used to, was used, so I'm guessing no.
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Hmmmm.....
That kinda kills an idea I had of showing Tom. It would be an ambiguous scene where we could show Tom hitting on this chick at school and would be a sort of introduction to a manifestation of The Sharing in the Animorphs' school.
It was just an idea.
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well you could still do that, but about a year or so before the animorphs became...well...ani morphs.
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HEY! Good point!
One year ago...
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It mentions that Tom used to be the star of the junior high basketball team and was now the main shooter at the high school. So at this point in the story I would guess Jake is in 7th grade (he's 13 years old, that would be 7th or 8th grade) and Tom is in 9th or 10th grade. We don't know yet if Tom can drive (I don't think) so he probably is younger than 16 still.
But if Jake is in 8th grade and Tom is in 10th grade then they would have been in 6th and 8th grade two years prior, which would put them both in middle school.
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Summary
Sometimes weird things happen to people. Ask Jake. He may tell you about the night he and his friends saw the strange light in the sky. He may even tell you about what happened when they realized the "light" was only a plane - from another planet. Here's where Jakes story gets a little weird. It's where they're told that the human race is under attack - and given the chance to fight back.
Now Jake, Rachel, Cassie, Tobias and Marco have the power to morph into any animal they choose. And they must use that power to outsmart an evil that is greater than anything the world has ever seen...
Questions
1) When Elfangor and Visser Three interact their conversation is very impersonal. How much of their history do you think that KA had figured out at this point?
2) Elfangor's fighter is equipped with two oddities: a family picture and an Escafil Device. Why do you think Elfangor would have these items on a fighter? Especially the Escafil Device - as a fighter pilot, it seems odd that Elfangor would have the added responsibility of guarding a piece of Andalite technology as he rides into battle.
3) The infamous KASU of book #1: Do you think that KA should have kept thought-speak the way it was in the first book, so that they could thought-speak even in human form? Or does it make more sense the way it ended up? If I remember correctly some of the ghostwriters have Ax and Tobias capable of thought-speaking in human morph later on in the series. What do you think about that?
4) How much of an 'accident' do you think Tobias getting stuck in morph was?
5) What do you think of the way KA portrays each of their personalities in this book? This is when we're introduced to the characters, and they're all still incredibly naive. What do you think about how they start out?
6) Cassie is, surprisingly, the first person to agree to receive the morphing power and fight. What do you think about that?
Feel free to answer these questions or not, add your own, etc. Next weeks book will be #2: The Visitor.
1) Although I doubt she had the whole history figured out, it didn't seem that impersonal: after all, V3 goes out of his way to humiliate and torture Elfangor by eating him. A more sensible course of action for an Andalite he had less of an emotive relationship with would have been to stun and then infest, thus gaining a second morph-capable Andalite host. Another reason for V3 not doing this, of course, is that he isn't about to give up his position as sole Andalite-Controller very easily.
2) The family picture doesn't seem odd: I can understand why Elfangor would want something to remember his family by while in space. The Escafil Device IS odd, because I can't see why it would be standard issue in a fighter, as it's illegal to give the technology to other species, and all members of the Andalite military already have it. Plus there's the risk of the Yeerks getting hold of it. And as Elfangor was originally going down to Earth to find the Time Matrix (and that when he saw the battle had failed and was desperate), I can't see why he would have taken the device with him. All I can suggest is the Ellimist "not interfering" again :P (Isn't it useful how you can attribute all plot holes to him?)
3) I can understand how Ax can use thought-speak in human morph, as human is a morph just like any other, so thought-speech should be built in. The fact that humans have an alternative means of communicating shouldn't matter, as the Anis morph other creatures who have their own means of communicating (dolphins, for example, or Hork-Bajir) yet can still thought-speak. However, if I remember rightly Jake thought-speaks in this book, which he shouldn't be able to do as it's his own natural body, and as Andalites already have that capability in their own body I can't see why it would be built into the technology. After Tobias is trapped, however, it would make sense for him to be able to use thought-speech as a human as it is a morph after that point, just like any other. But yeah, it's a KASU.
4) I think it was definitely partly an accident, but I think he may not have tried as hard as he perhaps could have done to save himself from being trapped.
5) They cope with it better than I would have done. Even Marco, who's pretty reluctant at first. :P It was a fairly realistic portrayal of how 13 year olds might react, IMO. Perhaps not totally realistic, but it is fiction.
6) Well, at this point I don't think Cassie quite realises how much fighting may clash with her morals. Also, I think Cassie would have had one of the strongest senses of duty to do what was right, and with her ability to read people, I think she will have been more trusting of Elfangor and more able to see he was telling the truth than perhaps some of the others. Plus, as an animal-lover, the idea of turning into them must have seemed especially cool to her :P
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Since Tobias was trapped in a hawk making that his natural form wouldn't that mean he should not be able to thought speak? Or is it just an artifact of the andalite technology that he still can. That would mean if he became a human nothlit he could still use thought speak.
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yeah but in #8 ax says he can't thought speak in human morph. and I could state some more examples of can and can't, but I've already said them at least 5 times so I'm not gonna do it again. Point is, whether can or can't is debatable.
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Hope it's still okay to add to this discussion.
Questions
1) When Elfangor and Visser Three interact their conversation is very impersonal. How much of their history do you think that KA had figured out at this point?
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It's fair to say she didn't have any of it figured out as such. The first six books are chalk full of evidence to support this.
2) Elfangor's fighter is equipped with two oddities: a family picture and an Escafil Device. Why do you think Elfangor would have these items on a fighter? Especially the Escafil Device - as a fighter pilot, it seems odd that Elfangor would have the added responsibility of guarding a piece of Andalite technology as he rides into battle.
The picture isn't such an oddity. Soldiers bring photos of their loved ones to war all the time. Sometimes you need to know what you're fighting for and when you're alone in the middle of an enemy desert (or in Elfangor's case, an alien planet) that picture could be the difference between freaking out and staying grounded.
That said, I can't really argue the point about the Escafil device. When you've read the whole series it makes sense, but taking it as if it the rest hasn't happened yet, it's a daring breech in security.
4) How much of an 'accident' do you think Tobias getting stuck in morph was?
About as much of an accident as my hand being found in a cookie jar when my parents walk in. Of course I'll tell them it was an accident, but the evidence is on the floor, the counter, my cheeks and quite possibly in the bedroom if this was my fifth trip as it often was.
He was morphed right before going into the Yeerk Pool and who knows how long he was in morph before the others actually got there.
5) What do you think of the way KA portrays each of their personalities in this book? This is when we're introduced to the characters, and they're all still incredibly naive. What do you think about how they start out?
I think she nailed their very young personalities. Give the morphing power to any other five teenagers and the results might have been different but they would have been just as naive.
6) Cassie is, surprisingly, the first person to agree to receive the morphing power and fight. What do you think about that?
"Cassie, do you want to morph into animals and *blah, blah, blah*". Being an animal lover and again, a naive teenager, I would be surprised if Elfangor had her with the morphing animals bit.
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4)i think it wasn't too much of an accident, there was this post and someone posted a deleted chapter that said he didn't do it by accident,also in book 43,tobias' flash back to the yeerk pool
[spoiler]An hour and fifty minutes? An hour and
fifty-five?
How long?!
The others had escaped already. The other
Animorphs, I mean. They'd dodged the visser's
fireball gauntlet. They'd slipped out to safety,
back through the janitor's closet, back into the
school. Rachel, Cassie, Marco, Jake.
Had I missed the deadline? Had I been more
than two hours in morph?
Couldn't have. Can't have. No. I'd be trapped
forever. A bird.
Independent, free, alone.
Forever.
[/spoiler]
he said "free"which makes me think he wanted it
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Since I'm not really "re-reading" the series so I'm gonna answer these questions with knowledge only in book 1.
1) When Elfangor and Visser Three interact their conversation is very impersonal. How much of their history do you think that KA had figured out at this point?
I think the author would have at least planned some form of back story on the original premise for her series just to establish the basic foundations that had made Animorphs what they are now. The interaction between Elfangor and Visser was a way to showcase that. Even though it seems like what we're entitled to in terms of the history between these two are very basic, it does kick start the series of so personally I think KA had thought of some basic ideas and then developed them further while the books were being published.
2) Elfangor's fighter is equipped with two oddities: a family picture and an Escafil Device. Why do you think Elfangor would have these items on a fighter? Especially the Escafil Device - as a fighter pilot, it seems odd that Elfangor would have the added responsibility of guarding a piece of Andalite technology as he rides into battle.
Take note I've only read the first book (Not to say I haven't read the subsequent ones but it's been so long I might as well have read it for the first time.)
I think Elfangor had the family picture and the escafil device because the yeerks had probably invaded at the location of where the Escafil device was originally located and as the Prince, he had the responsibility of taking the escafil device and transporting it to another planet before the yeerks could reverse engineer it. Maybe he realised that he would have had to leave his family suddenly, especially if the yeerk invasion for the device was a surprise attack, and he had to leave quickly so he probably didn’t have a chance to say goodbye and the picture was the closest thing he had to seeing his family.
The reason why I think that he was on a fighter was so he could hide in the battle zone of when the counter-assault happened against the yeerks. It would probably be extremely noticeable if a different type of ship attempted to flee from the war or maybe he had to fight his way to escape.
3) The infamous KASU of book #1: Do you think that KA should have kept thought-speak the way it was in the first book, so that they could thought-speak even in human form? Or does it make more sense the way it ended up? If I remember correctly some of the ghostwriters have Ax and Tobias capable of thought-speaking in human morph later on in the series. What do you think about that?
I’ve no idea what the infamous KASU you’re referring to is. But I think it probably made more sense, and more interesting, if they could only thought spoke in their morphed forms because morphing was a technology given to them so they could only use the abilities when they morphed. I’m probably guessing but the Andalites probably thought spoke as their primary language and it was natural to have it in the escafil device when they were in a morph.
4) How much of an 'accident' do you think Tobias getting stuck in morph was?
From what I’ve gathered I think Tobias was being careless on purpose about the limitations and side effects of the morphing ability. He was aware of what would happen to him if he stayed in a morph longer than 2 hours but I think in the end he chose to live a life as a hawk because his life as a human was so terrible. His life as a human probably felt very oppressive and restrictive such as the bullies picking on him and not having a proper family to nurture him. Being a hawk was about freedom and doing whatever he want without anyone telling him what to do or suffer any consequences for it. So the answer is yes and no. Tobias knew about the limit but didn’t try very hard to avoid it.
5) What do you think of the way KA portrays each of their personalities in this book? This is when we're introduced to the characters, and they're all still incredibly naive. What do you think about how they start out?
I think they’re all very diverse with some parts overlapping each other’s personalities. I think that KA made it deliberate that the each group’s personalities were different so that the person reading the story would always find a character they could relate too. I think they turned out quite well because each member of the animorphs group had a strength and when they were together they supported each other’s weaknesses.
6) Cassie is, surprisingly, the first person to agree to receive the morphing power and fight. What do you think about that?
I think it’s very fitting of her. In the book we’re exposed to her love for animals. She takes care of them in a clinic and helps her parents, who are veterinarians; take care of the animals in the zoo as well so it seemed only natural for her to jump at the chance to be animals and discover what it was like. She’s probably fulfilling her dream of what it would be like.
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I don't think Elfangor's ship was your typical one-two person fighter. Elfangor was a War Prince, and his rank certainly allows him to have his own ship, much larger than the standard fighter. A good example was how Alloran had his own personal warship, the Jafar, in Andalite Chronicles. It would have served as both a mobile home, as well as a war ship.
As Jake described in the original book, "There was no chair, just sort of an open space where I guess the Andalite stood on his four hooves while he worked on the controls."
Likewise, the Jafar was a ship that could be run by Alloran alone, though it also allowed him to hold a crew of at least three andalites and two humans. That would explain why Elfangor was the only one in his ship. As an Andalite War Prince, I suppose he would have access to technology for him to use as he deemed fit, without breaking the rules of Seerow's Kindness. An example would be how Aximili, upon his immediate promotion to Prince, was also given control of four Escafil Devices. (though whether the extra devices were due to his rank, his achievements in essentially stopping the Yeerk invasion, or for ease of spreading the morphing power to the promised Taxxons/Yeerks is up to debate)
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You do have to ponder on the practical reasons for why an Andalite Prince would carry an Escafil device, his people's most precious weapon, into war. Wouldn't their personnel be charged with the technology in the Homeworld? Why else would Princes use it in the field?!
With Seerow's Kindness being such a huge deal, what counter measures could the Andalite military have had in place to address all the different scenarios of it falling in the hands of the enemy during field missions? It couldn't have been as simple as any person being able to walk into the ship and plucking the Cube from the navigational station.
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Jafar
You mean Jahar. Alloran's wife.
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Yes, Jahar, I just wanted it Jafar because of Aladdin.
As for the practicality of Elfangor bringing crucial military tech to the field, there are two possible reasons.
The first, being that he had brought it down with him without anyone knowing. Someone of his rank and status would have access to the technology; while that means he could possess it, it doesn't mean the andalites would have condoned him taking technology down to their battlefield. But even if they obviously didn't allow Elfangor to bring that piece of andalite technology down; who's to say that elfangor told anyone he had it? Last I recalled, The Andalites were being ambushed by a pool ship and the blade ship, had disengaged the dome, Elfangor had run out the moment they confirmed Yeerk presence on Earth. I don't think anyone would have noticed if Elfangor took something he had access to down to the surface; everyone would have been busy trying to stay alive. It wasn't as if an Aristh, completely without access to the device, had broken in, grabbed it, and then mainlined for Earth; Elfangor's rank and clearance would have let him take one without trouble and no alarm would have been triggered, allowing the other andalites to focus on not getting killed.
The second reason? Elfangor knew that he had a part in what was to come, and he knew that he would have to bring the Escafil Device with him. Prior to being returned as an Andalite, The Ellimist showed him a point of view the Ellimist saw things from; He knew that his human son would meet up with four other humanss and hir own brother, Aximili, and that this very union of six was the entire point of the Ellimist's non-inteference.
To quote; "I lay there dying, knowing that Visser Three would pursue me. Knowing that this time, at long last, he would win over me.
And that's when five children, no older than Loren had been when I had first met her, came by. Three boys and two girls. Scared at the sight of me, but not so scared that they ran away.
One of them seemed especially drawn to me.
And when I saw his face, I knew why.
He could only be Loren's son. My son."
After that,, he gives the ability to morph to the kids; he knew this was the union of 5 timelines, and a sixth, later on. He did it because he 'knew what human children could do'.
Ultimately, there is never an actual reason why Elfangor would have the escafil device, but it is established that Escafil Devices are on board the dome ships, as shown by how Ax got four of them when the war ended. One explanation would be that he would have one due to his rank, another would be he stole it. Whichever reason you pick, there are bound to be holes and missing links. However since the entire event was scripted to happen by the Ellimist (from the union of six to the end of the war due to the actions of the six) you could say that the Ellimist ensured Elfangor would have the device there.
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My point is, with so much emphasis on the security of their technology, why would the Andalite military permit the a Blue Cube (that, we later on learn, can seemingly automatically charge ANY species with the morphing power by a mere touch) to be taken on the field. It shouldn't have left the Homeworld in the first place.
It does lead me to your first hypothesis, that of Elfangor quite simply having taken the Cube that would have been issued to him. BUT, it doesn't explain having no fail safes on the Andalites' part. Remember, Seerow's Kindness is judicial for them.
But I realize a lot of the elements of the series weren't fully worked out at this stage of the game, so things weren't very clear. For example, Prince Elfangor didn't seem in charge of the Andalite Fleet on this mission to intercede for Earth, so who was the War Prince? The photo of the Andalite family in his ship, were they a new family Elfangor had created?
Applegate and Grant told a great story from the word go, though.
For your second hypothesis: I'm only partly with it. I think that is the problem with the having all-powerful-time-fiddling characters such as the Ellimist. Eg: I still can't buy the 'lethal wound' that incapacitated him to heal through morphing... though there have been some plausible hypothesis relating to the Ellimist being at work (which you can find here in this thread somewhere). But there again, we have the Ellimist doing the Deus Ex Machina guimmicky.
Elfangor would have brought the Cube out of the ship with him, if he had full awareness of what he was supposed to do. As it played, the Cube was inside and Jake had to go and fetch it. Which leads me to think that Elfangor didn't crashland planning on sharing the technology with any the first kids that appeared in front of him... But in the Andalite Chronicles we get a slightly different picture...
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I'm not sure how much this influences the conversation, but in re-reading book #1 (yay new copies!) I noticed that Visser Three recognizes Elfangor not by looking at the Andalite himself, but by looking at his ship. It is easy to infer from there that Elfangor did in fact have a ship that was unique from other fighters.
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My point is, with so much emphasis on the security of their technology, why would the Andalite military permit the a Blue Cube (that, we later on learn, can seemingly automatically charge ANY species with the morphing power by a mere touch) to be taken on the field. It shouldn't have left the Homeworld in the first place.
It does lead me to your first hypothesis, that of Elfangor quite simply having taken the Cube that would have been issued to him. BUT, it doesn't explain having no fail safes on the Andalites' part. Remember, Seerow's Kindness is judicial for them.
One reason could be because the Andalite Fleet was that; a fleet. It was meant to be a mobile home, home to thousands of andalites, and essentially a walking base. As a walking base, it was essentially the most protection they could have outside of having it on the main base on the homeworld.
Essentially, when the fleet journeyed to stop the Yeerks, I don't think any of them had any illusions as to how long the war was going to take. None of them was going to say 'a few years' and from the series, we've known that the entire war lasted more than half a century, with the pivotal battle being the last three years on Earth.
Since the war was expected to last long (what with the Yeerks considered a plague, and we all know how hard it is to stop an intergalactic plague), the Andalite Fleets would have probably been expected and built to be self sufficient. They would not have had to keep returning to the homeworld, be it for supplies, and/or upgraded military technology. (remember that the Escafil Device existed since the Hork Bajir war, but even then it was brand new; by then, upgrades in technology could have been vast, and if such technology was made only on the home world, the andalites would have basically been fighting with old technology. Essentially, they needed to keep the technology they had achieved on their mobile bases, either to further upgrade or explore the tech rather than having to return to the homeworld to do it every time).
lastly, we have to remember that the andalites take great pride in their dome ships. They never expected to be ambushed by the pool ship and subsequently, tthe blade ship. if the andalites had to take morphing technology out of their homeworld (with the reason being that it was impractical to return to the homeworld everytime they needed the cube for whatever reasons) it would have to be on the most safest place it could possibly be; ie. on a dome ship. Assigning one cube to each war prince would have simply made it so that there would be multiple people responsible for each cube; therefore shoulld the cubes ever need to be accounted for, the war princes need nearly be called up. Since each cube was entrusted to one war prince, no single person (save the Captain prince himself, maybe) would be able to compromise their entire stock of morphing technology. Also, since they wouldn't all be stored in the same place, a lucky thief or traitor wouldn't be able to send all the technology they had to the Yeerks.
Elfangor was a War Prince, but he was not leading the trip to Earth. That goes to Captain Nerefir, whom was the Captain Prince of the Dome Ship GalaxyTree. As for the photo, it would have been of Elfangors, his brother and their parents. The photo was never shown to be how old.
For your second hypothesis: I'm only partly with it. I think that is the problem with the having all-powerful-time-fiddling characters such as the Ellimist. Eg: I still can't buy the 'lethal wound' that incapacitated him to heal through morphing... though there have been some plausible hypothesis relating to the Ellimist being at work (which you can find here in this thread somewhere). But there again, we have the Ellimist doing the Deus Ex Machina guimmicky.
it wasn't the wound, it was exhaustion. Morphing requires focus, and Elfangor was too weak to even move into his ship and get a box. While it may not be a great reason, it was necessary for Elfangor to die, because his death was the primary motivation for the Andalites to keep fighting. Without his sacrifice, the animorphs would have just run away, pretended the truth never happened, and an alien didn't die in front of them. If they weren't shown how tough and dangerous their enemies could be, they would have been irresponsible with their power (which they only are very occasionally),.
David was a good example of an animorph who, without seeing the sacrifice of someone, and had lost everything he had (from his parents, his life, his home) and ended up hating the animorphs for dragging him into their fight.
Elfangor did have full awareness of what was to happen, but only after he met Tobias. He had brought the cube for reasons unknown (but which had no doubt been ensured by the Ellimist). he had met the five children, one of them his own son from a life long ago. It was only then, that he chose to broke the law and give those five children morphing powers, because it was he alone who knew what human children could do. That, and because he knew that his son would join with four others and his own brother, and that this union was of great significance to the ellimist. Having known that, he decided to entrust the animorphs with the morphing power.
It was also shown that Elfangor never intended to give the power to them. he had traveled to Earth, because he was defeated, dying and desperate enough t resort to the one weapon neither side could ever been allowed to possess; the Time Matrix. He failed, and he would have died, if not for the anirmorphs.
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...we have to remember that the andalites take great pride in their dome ships. They never expected to be ambushed by the pool ship and subsequently, tthe blade ship. if the andalites had to take morphing technology out of their homeworld (with the reason being that it was impractical to return to the homeworld everytime they needed the cube for whatever reasons) it would have to be on the most safest place it could possibly be; ie. on a dome ship. Assigning one cube to each war prince would have simply made it so that there would be multiple people responsible for each cube; therefore shoulld the cubes ever need to be accounted for, the war princes need nearly be called up...
I disagree. The safest place is meant to be the Andalite Homeworld (eventhough we as readers know that there is some sort of subvert Yeerk operation going on in the Homeworld, the Andalites themselves don't). Visser One herself hinted that it was impossible to wage war on the Andalites in their front yard, the way their forces were set up. And by the same coin, their very own Yeerk Homeworld was under strong Andalite siege. The Yeerks had not dared go near them.
I am not saying that the morhping tech wouldn't have been secure in a Domeship, but I am questioning the practical use of having a tactical weapon, that grants morphing ability, out in the field.
The Andalite warriors are charged with the morphing power in military school, back in their homeworld, so there is no practical use in having the Escafil device out of the Homeworld, really.
You are quite right, though, it could well be a case of Andalite vanity thing. Or, it could have very easily been Elfangor himself. Only we know he was going for the Time Mattrix when he crashlanded on the abandoned construction site.
I'm just saying, good as it was, there's a few loopholes in the first book that sets up the series here. And I fully understand that the series wasn't fully fleshed out at this initial stage, but, personally, I never liked to attribute everything to the all-powerful-time-bending-guru that is the Ellimist.
...he had brought the cube for reasons unknown (but which had no doubt been ensured by the Ellimist)...
Ima rest my case at this point. :bored:
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Maybe it was 'bring your Escafil Device to war' day. There are a lot of questions that aren't answered, for example, why did Jake send Rachel into the Blade Ship with a hopeless mission, what happened to the Time Matrix (still buried in the construction site?), why did the andalites only send one dome ship into a zone that Elfangor knew was Yeerk infested (considering his actions and role in the war, it would not have been counter productive to just send two).
My reason (so take it as you will) was that the morphing cubes were held on dome ships because they were, like all pieces of technology, being researched and upgraded. The andalites are technologically advanced, to say the least. With their dome ships spread out across the galaxy, say an upgrade of the morphing cube was made, or a newer weapon. Would all dome ships return back to the homeworld to restock on newer weapons? That would be severely impractical.
Each domeship may have warriors, but they're supposed to be balanced; part warrior, scientist and so on. Therefore, it could be easily possible that the domeships have their own scientists on board whose job includes having to make new weapons, upgrade older weapons, new research or a breakthrough in old technology.
These scientists are going to need to work off a baseline (for example, an upgrade). it could be that the morphing cubes were given to dome ships so that the scientists there had something to work with; it'd be a lot easier to make breakthroughs and upgrades of old technology if you didn't have to rebuild whatever you're planning to upgrade in the first place.
In terms of practicality, it may not be very wise to even bring out the escafil device away from the homeworld, but then again, the andalites are no different from humans; they may not always do things in the most efficient way. There are many missions where the animorphs have made a dumb move to resolve an issue, and we've attributed this to them being human. Andalites aren't perfect either (as we all know) and it could be that just because they did things in a less efficient way doesn't mean they're wrong. More importantly, it could be that they later realized that it was probably a bad move to bring the escafil device with them to war; in that case, should they return back to the homeworld then to drop it off? That would be a serious waste of time and effort.
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1. I don’t think that K.A. had really figured out much of Visser/elfangors histories at this point. I think she had it in her mind that the two had a history of past interactions, but nothing further
2. The reason why elfangor would have had an picture, and the escafil device on board are mixed and complicated. I think the portrait for elfangor was a very personal touch, knowing his history now as this is a re-read of the series, it seems likely that elfangors past experience as a human, and Loosing his family, would mean that he would want his family to go where ever he went, via a portrait. I feel that the escafil device was not an official item. Elfangor was a bit of a rebel, he had more experience than most andalites, and probably realised the Power of the escafil device in ways that others could not.
3 I think that it was good to change it back, so that thought speech was only available in morph. This adds limitations and weaknesses to a human invasion of the yeerk pool like in book 17.
4: Tobias getting stuck in morph was no accident, he knew what he was doing, and really saw it as an escape from his awful reality. He had a terrible home life, he was bullied at school, and no-one had really shown him any reason to continue his human life. As a hawk he had power, and control over his own life. I feel it was more of a situation where he was not really concerned about getting stuck in morph, and if it happened, he would accept it, rather than morphing for the sake of changing his life
5: I think, having read the series twice, that the characters in the book are all fantastic. Jake is still the unwilling leader, who can see into people and situations enough to make him a good leader. Tobias is still lost in the world, he is incredibly intelligent and can read the Really big picture really well, he is niave about combat and the fight, but he is still tobias. He also demonstrates his connection with elfangor well at the beginning of the book. Cassie is an animal lover, who is still sometimes oddly concerned about getting in trouble from her parents even though the planet is being invaded. And marco. He is still the intelligent, wise cracking, intelligent, humorous, intelligent, short, intelligent, person he remains throughout the series. And Rachael. She is still a beautiful xena. A warrior within. What is not demonstrated as well in this book as it is in some of the others is her intelligence, and her cunning.
6. cassie being the first person to receive the morphin power and fight is not suprising to me. Cassie is a very emotionally driven person, and when ever she see’s someone suffering, she wants to do something about it. Its not the concern about the future of the human race that drove her to agreeing, but rather, seeing elfangors pain
Cheers’
Cameron