Author Topic: Something that makes me have seconds thoughts about morphing  (Read 2819 times)

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Offline anijen21

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Re: Something that makes me have seconds thoughts about morphing
« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2009, 12:51:16 PM »
that's more along the line of Einstein/Hawking, I think, but that doesn't explain why Zero-Space "shifts" any better than mine does.
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Offline morfowt

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Re: Something that makes me have seconds thoughts about morphing
« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2009, 01:49:17 PM »
I don't even get what shifting means. I can't even recall when they ever mentioned z-space shifting in the series actually.

Offline anijen21

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Re: Something that makes me have seconds thoughts about morphing
« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2009, 01:51:41 PM »
shifting, like how it takes months to get to Earth and then Zero-space shifts and it takes years to get to Earth. It's unpredictable, it moves, or something.
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Offline Estelore

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Re: Something that makes me have seconds thoughts about morphing
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2009, 11:31:48 PM »
Oh, that's the easy part! :D

Right. Z-space is the zeroth dimension, neh? That means it is an infinitely small, infinitely large POINT. It is fixed.
Thing is, everything in greater-than-zero-dimension is MOVING. Constantly. Energy, lines of force, matter itself vibrating, the orbits of things because of gravity and EM and the nuclear forces: everything moves.

It's not z-space shifting in relation to where you are,
it's you shifting massive distances in relation to z-space's nonlocation.
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Offline Shock

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Re: Something that makes me have seconds thoughts about morphing
« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2009, 12:29:23 AM »
always wondered how that "mass" was kept that alive during it's time into zspace..

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Offline anijen21

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Re: Something that makes me have seconds thoughts about morphing
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2009, 01:28:00 AM »
Oh, that's the easy part! :D

Right. Z-space is the zeroth dimension, neh? That means it is an infinitely small, infinitely large POINT. It is fixed.
Thing is, everything in greater-than-zero-dimension is MOVING. Constantly. Energy, lines of force, matter itself vibrating, the orbits of things because of gravity and EM and the nuclear forces: everything moves.

It's not z-space shifting in relation to where you are,
it's you shifting massive distances in relation to z-space's nonlocation.

that makes a lot of sense

but it still doesn't explain why it takes different amounts of time to reach the same place based on that "shift"
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Offline Aluminator (Kit)

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Re: Something that makes me have seconds thoughts about morphing
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2009, 10:59:58 AM »
What if your time spent traveling in zero space is not actually spent at the "zero space" point, but merely traveling through the area of the "cone" to the "zero" point, and then back to real space? My guess would be that the Andalites don't actually reach the zero point doing it this way either- they just get close, but still have to travel some real distance too- that explains not only why it takes time to travel through z-space, but why it seems to take longer in z-space to travel a greater real space distance. Honestly, calling what Andalite ships travel through "zero space" is a bit presumptuous if you look at it this way (I'd go with "condensed space" or "condensed sweetened space" =P).

Then, of course, the shifting of z-space is pretty easy to explain. Visualizing it as a perfect cone is a bit flawed. It would have to be a cone that's constantly rippling and twisting with the changing energies of the universe. If a ripple happens to fall along the condensed space line of travel between you and your destination, it could severely alter the travel times between those two locations. Space, even n-dimensional space, is far from "smooth."

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Offline morfowt

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Re: Something that makes me have seconds thoughts about morphing
« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2009, 11:14:55 AM »
What if your time spent traveling in zero space is not actually spent at the "zero space" point, but merely traveling through the area of the "cone" to the "zero" point, and then back to real space? My guess would be that the Andalites don't actually reach the zero point doing it this way either- they just get close, but still have to travel some real distance too- that explains not only why it takes time to travel through z-space, but why it seems to take longer in z-space to travel a greater real space distance. Honestly, calling what Andalite ships travel through "zero space" is a bit presumptuous if you look at it this way (I'd go with "condensed space" or "condensed sweetened space" =P).

Then, of course, the shifting of z-space is pretty easy to explain. Visualizing it as a perfect cone is a bit flawed. It would have to be a cone that's constantly rippling and twisting with the changing energies of the universe. If a ripple happens to fall along the condensed space line of travel between you and your destination, it could severely alter the travel times between those two locations. Space, even n-dimensional space, is far from "smooth."
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Offline wildweathel

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Re: Something that makes me have seconds thoughts about morphing
« Reply #23 on: December 29, 2009, 04:45:52 PM »
Einsteinian space is very smooth at everything above quantum-mechanical scales, making interstellar travel impractical.  Actually, according to currently-known physics it's possible to travel between two stars in a matter of hours with sufficient energy and acceleration.

Of course, when you get there, many years will have passed for the universe at large.  Relativity makes my brain hurt.
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Offline Fwahm

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Re: Something that makes me have seconds thoughts about morphing
« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2009, 09:10:31 PM »
It's likely less than a one in a trillion chance due to the vastness of space, and only happened in 18 because it's a fiction story, and was a plot line KAA could follow.

If morphing was in real life, you'd have a higher chance of dying from a baseball sized meteor crashing into your head than being sucked to Z space.

Offline morfowt

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Re: Something that makes me have seconds thoughts about morphing
« Reply #25 on: December 29, 2009, 10:36:41 PM »
hmm... re-reading what ax said about that in book 10...

ax said, the ship wouldn't hit them, but the ship's shielding would disintegrate them. guess that was just theory too...

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Re: Something that makes me have seconds thoughts about morphing
« Reply #26 on: December 31, 2009, 08:13:04 PM »
Einsteinian space is very smooth at everything above quantum-mechanical scales, making interstellar travel impractical.  Actually, according to currently-known physics it's possible to travel between two stars in a matter of hours with sufficient energy and acceleration.

Of course, when you get there, many years will have passed for the universe at large.  Relativity makes my brain hurt.

I don't tend to put a whole lot of stock in currently-known physics. It hasn't even come up with a way to reconcile quantum physics with classical physics  ::)

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Offline Estelore

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Re: Something that makes me have seconds thoughts about morphing
« Reply #27 on: January 01, 2010, 06:51:25 PM »
I must break into the conversation, if only a moment, to squeal and dance about the board.

Why?

Somebody else here is speaking sense-making physics.
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Offline Damien

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Re: Something that makes me have seconds thoughts about morphing
« Reply #28 on: January 02, 2010, 04:58:39 PM »
Well... two things... I'm going to make myself sound like an idiot here but I don't care!

Have space as the "two dimensional surface area of the cone" sound bit ridiculous to me... because space itself isn't in two dimensions is it? We aren't in two dimensions are we? No we're in three, four actually (time). So how could you twist space around and have it a cone? Maybe have the surface be "thick"? Maybe you can't  get into Z-space from every point of space... or maybe there are more than one cone? There couldn't possibly be only one cone now that I think about it. If you could leave Earth via space ship you couldn't just good in a certain direction you could go any way you want, so maybe its a bunch of cones, maybe they over lap? I don't know I'm sounding like an idiot, even to myself xD

Maybe Z-space is more like what happened in "A Wrinkle in Time"? I don't know, its a thought. Of course both are only books.

-------

About morphing itself about dieing technically every time you morph because the extra matter is sent into Z-space. Maybe that is why their is a two hour limit. Maybe the morphing technology can only bring back the matter to life within the time limit and once it passes the matter losses its connection completely with the morpher? But what happens when you morph somehting larger than yourself?
« Last Edit: January 02, 2010, 05:15:46 PM by Damien »
That'sssss a very nice possssst you have there... It'd be a sssshame if something happened to it...

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Offline morfowt

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Re: Something that makes me have seconds thoughts about morphing
« Reply #29 on: January 02, 2010, 06:51:27 PM »
um... Damien, I'm not sure how to explain it properly to you about that, but yes, to me, you're sounding like an idiot.  :-\ sorry