Author Topic: Minor Characters  (Read 7647 times)

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Offline Chad32

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Re: Minor Characters
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2015, 11:39:00 AM »
Because they want to try to do what the anis did. Realistically, the animorphs shouldn't have lasted long against the Yeerks, but they did. That might explain why two Humans would volunteer, but I don't have an explanation for the Andalite. Nor do I really remember anything about those characters.


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Offline DinosaurNothlit

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Re: Minor Characters
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2015, 10:49:30 PM »
Huh, that's a really good point about Menderash.  I'd never thought about that before.  But, yeah, he must have some hella loyalty to Ax to trap himself as a human at the drop of a hat like that.

Actually, though, I'd always seen him as, sorry, but a bit of an idiot.  They're presented with this totally enigmatic race, the Kelbrid, who all we know about them is they don't like Andalites, but we have no idea why.  So, what, you're just going to assume that, if you're an Andalite but you're in the body of another race, they're going to look more favorably on that, when you don't even know why they don't like Andalites in the first place?  We don't know what Kelbrid look like; why would you even assume they know what Andalites look like?  Or, heck, why would you think that you'll even be in a situation where it's going to come up?  Hey, space is big, so there's a very good chance it might not even matter, so why would you be so hasty to jump to that conclusion?  Chances are that all they're ever going to see of you is the ship, anyway.  *sigh*  Sorry, Menderash, I don't even care if Ax single-handedly saved you and your entire family, you're really just being a derp.  :P

Oh, but you know who I really wanted to see get more development as a character beyond "Oh she is good and wonderful herp-derp" (nope not Cassie) is Toby Hamee.  They really missed a heckuva opportunity, just by not acknowledging the issues that her character clearly had.  We're talking about a supposed 'leader' who sent her people to die, on at least two different occasions, for high-sounding concepts she knew they did not understand.  This is not good leadership material, and yet, any time she is in the books she is made out to be this good and wonderful leader who is trying to do right by her people.  No, she isn't.  She is a TERRIBLE leader.  But, when you look at who she is, well, she has every right to be a terrible leader!  She was basically shoved into a leadership position as soon as she could talk, she was born into the midst of a terrible war where she had to watch the remnants of her species struggle to survive and they all looked to her to guide them through it, she passed her parents' intellectual capability by the time she was a few months old (can you even imagine that, to not even be on the same intellectual playing field as your own parents?), and the only people she could even relate to as role models were either a ragtag bunch of alien children who didn't really know what they were doing either or a race of ruthless parasitic overlords who had enslaved her people for as long as she'd been alive.  It should surprise nobody, then, when in #47 she mentions how she talks to trees and thinks they talk back.  What I think was the missed opportunity, though, is that absolutely NONE of this ever sent up any alarm bells, or ever made anyone question whether or not she ought to be in that leadership position.  :facepalm:

Lastly, because nobody's mentioned them yet, I've gotta give a shoutout to the Auxiliaries.  Major missed character opportunities (there were some really interesting starts to some good characterization, but none of it really made it past #50), and then they were all, just, gone.  At the very least, their sacrifice should have been acknowledged a lot more than it ever was.  A funeral, a few words about how twenty-something Animorphs gave their lives for the cause.  Something.  But, no.  :(
« Last Edit: April 11, 2015, 10:52:24 PM by DinosaurNothlit »

Offline vivaria

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Re: Minor Characters
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2015, 06:58:21 AM »
I assume all the leaders in the series are in some way reflections of Jake like James and Toby, and maybe even Elfangor and Esplin. They all made terrible mistakes and huge decisions that they didn't really have the right to make, sacrificing people so loyal to them and being remembered well for it by their people. I suppose the series is trying to tell us that this is all a leader in a war really is.

I absolutely agree about the auxiliaries. I always felt there was a problem with introducing a new group of characters like them, but I couldn't pinpoint why. I wonder if it's the fault of the narrative, it's difficult to feel attachment to a large group of new characters so late in the series and then have them all die like that, like it was nothing. And like you said, not even worth mentioning after the fact. I didn't like how the auxiliaries were treated, narrative-wise, much at all. Being disabled myself, it certainly gave me plenty of mixed feelings.
I also wish that at least some of them had been confirmed to have survived, instead of this vague idea that apparently all of them died. it's really pretty awful that, as far as I can remember, every chronically ill and disabled character in the series just ends up getting killed or never mentioned again. (What happened to Mertil??)

Major missed character opportunities (there were some really interesting starts to some good characterization, but none of it really made it past #50)
Oh, I totally agree, but I'm also interested to know if you had any particular character in mind?
Anyway, my favorites of them were Collette, Kelly, and Tim. I liked what little dialogue and interactions they had.

The whole thing with Menderash does seem really poorly thought out. It's possible that going nothlit could have just been a precaution, but it may or may not have been necessary. No one apparently knows exactly how advanced the Kelbrid are. What if they can even detect a morph? Or even worse, what if they could see past a nothlit and find that he was really an Andalite? And then all of it would turn out to be for nothing. It's all just so strange and ambiguous. I see a lot of theories that people think that the Kelbrid could be extinct or something by then, or may not have even existed at all, however that would work. It's interesting to see what people come up with.

In any case, at the very least, I'd imagine him going nothlit would also be for fooling the remaining controllers on the Blade ship. They wouldn't be able to figure who Menderash is in his human morph, but they definitely would have recognized an Andalite.
I bet Menderash was 100% expecting to die, but I doubt he even thought about the slim possibility that they might survive, especially since he's a nothlit and is unable to morph-heal. And if they did survive, what is he going to do then? He can't exactly go back home, nor back to the Andalite military either, I'd imagine. Unless the Andalites have or will have dramatically changed their views against nothlits, or even 'vecols' if he were to become disabled during the mission.

Oh, I just thought of this, but I wonder if there's any fanart roaming around the internet of any minor characters, like the auxiliaries? Or maybe headcanons about what the characters that aren't described might look like. I think that'd be really cool, I'll have to go see if I can find any.

Offline Chad32

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Re: Minor Characters
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2015, 07:57:21 AM »
The auxilaries were definitely a missed opportunity, but they didn't last long enough to really get to know them. They were in all of four books. I forget Toby saying she talks to trees, and thinks they talk back. There's a part in TAC where Elfangor talks to a tree, and gets some spiritual feelings from it. The author may have been trying to tap into that. Still, Toby has a rough childhood.


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Offline DinosaurNothlit

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Re: Minor Characters
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2015, 06:17:21 PM »
I assume all the leaders in the series are in some way reflections of Jake like James and Toby, and maybe even Elfangor and Esplin. They all made terrible mistakes and huge decisions that they didn't really have the right to make, sacrificing people so loyal to them and being remembered well for it by their people. I suppose the series is trying to tell us that this is all a leader in a war really is.

The difference is, though, that Jake and James and Elfangor (and even to some extent Esplin) had goals that more-or-less matched those of their followers, and those followers could understand what they were getting into when they signed up.  Toby, on the other hand, was fighting a war in her own head.  She would talk about how 'freedom has to be earned in some way' and 'we have to be strong for no other reason than to prove we are strong.'  She was fighting for abstract ideals, not concrete achievable goals.  Thus, what with the Hork-bajir being unable to even comprehend abstract concepts, she was completely the wrong leader for her people.  But, I digress.

(What happened to Mertil??)

I don't know, but at least in my own head-canon, he would have been accepted among humans, and I have this mental image of him with this super-sleek mechanical prosthetic tail thanks to advancements in human technology after the trade agreements with the Andalites.  :D

Oh, I totally agree, but I'm also interested to know if you had any particular character in mind?

Tim and Kelly were probably my favorites.  Tim's enthusiasm, Kelly's attitude, they could have both been excellent characters if they'd been developed a bit more.  James seemed like a bit of a Jake-clone, though.

And you're very right about the books mishandling the whole idea of disability, by the way.  Why, for instance, did they decide that all of the people who were 'healed' from their disabilities should be the leaders of the Auxiliaries?  James was already kinda leader-ish so that might be written off as a coincidence, but I seem to recall the books actually saying that the other two that got 'healed' were promptly appointed as his generals.  *headdesk*

I bet Menderash was 100% expecting to die, but I doubt he even thought about the slim possibility that they might survive, especially since he's a nothlit and is unable to morph-heal. And if they did survive, what is he going to do then? He can't exactly go back home, nor back to the Andalite military either, I'd imagine. Unless the Andalites have or will have dramatically changed their views against nothlits, or even 'vecols' if he were to become disabled during the mission.

Oh, that's a really good point, that he might have been expecting to die.  Maybe that was actually intended as some subtle foreshadowing for the Bolivian Army Ending?

The auxilaries were definitely a missed opportunity, but they didn't last long enough to really get to know them. They were in all of four books. I forget Toby saying she talks to trees, and thinks they talk back. There's a part in TAC where Elfangor talks to a tree, and gets some spiritual feelings from it. The author may have been trying to tap into that. Still, Toby has a rough childhood.

Heh, yeah, but if you're talking to a tree that actually DOES talk back, that's one thing.  Earth trees are generally thought to be non-sentient (and just for the record, Hork-bajir trees are confirmed in the series to be non-sentient, as well).  Whales, on the other hand . . .

Offline vivaria

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Re: Minor Characters
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2015, 09:10:48 PM »
The difference is, though, that Jake and James and Elfangor (and even to some extent Esplin) had goals that more-or-less matched those of their followers, and those followers could understand what they were getting into when they signed up.  Toby, on the other hand, was fighting a war in her own head.  She would talk about how 'freedom has to be earned in some way' and 'we have to be strong for no other reason than to prove we are strong.'  She was fighting for abstract ideals, not concrete achievable goals.  Thus, what with the Hork-bajir being unable to even comprehend abstract concepts, she was completely the wrong leader for her people.  But, I digress.
Huh, I guess I don't remember that! I remember she had a goal of freeing as many Hork-Bajir as they can, and they take on a "free or dead!" mindset, which they all seem to understand. I guess I'll need to reread to refresh my memory.

Offline NothingFromSomething

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Re: Minor Characters
« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2015, 03:39:33 AM »
Couldn't you make the argument that Toby was exactly the right leader, though?  After all the whole "seer" thing was pretty much a biological imperative, natural selection as a leader of her people, just as the other seers through history were.

If you've got this tiny colony on Earth, besieged at any opportunity by a high-tech alien presence, you sort of want someone who's actually able to interact and deal with the Animorphs kids on the same intellectual level.  You can't really co-ordinate a resistance when your most common train of thought is "Mm, bark, yum.  Harvest tree now."

Person Of Interest re-watch.  Still stunning as ever.

Offline DinosaurNothlit

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Re: Minor Characters
« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2015, 08:16:11 AM »
Couldn't you make the argument that Toby was exactly the right leader, though?  After all the whole "seer" thing was pretty much a biological imperative, natural selection as a leader of her people, just as the other seers through history were.

Well, that was the idea, at least.  And that was, ultimately, why she ended up the leader, because she was the "seer" and so the Hork-bajir just assumed she was destined to lead them.

If you've got this tiny colony on Earth, besieged at any opportunity by a high-tech alien presence, you sort of want someone who's actually able to interact and deal with the Animorphs kids on the same intellectual level.  You can't really co-ordinate a resistance when your most common train of thought is "Mm, bark, yum.  Harvest tree now."

I don't actually agree.  The Hork-bajir didn't interact with the Animorphs much (until the very end of the series, and even then it was only because they were all living in the same place), so they didn't really need to be functioning at the same level.  For that matter, the Animorphs seemed to have a decent amount of respect for the regular Hork-bajir, intelligent or not, before Toby even existed, in #13.

I truly think that Jara would have made a better leader.  He obviously wasn't schoolbook-smart the way a seer would be, but he knew the things he needed to know, and I think he could relate to the other Hork-bajir in a way Toby couldn't.  It was him, not Toby, who started the whole "Free or dead!" mantra; he knew what really mattered.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2015, 08:18:33 AM by DinosaurNothlit »

Offline NothingFromSomething

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Re: Minor Characters
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2015, 09:22:44 AM »
Right, but all of the interaction was pretty much between Toby herself and the group.  Tobias probably hung out with Jara and Ket a little from memory, but it was all pretty polite-social and not really much to do with the war.

I'm not really sure how the Hork-Bajir as a group would really be able to follow somewhat-complex plans or strategies, assuming they'd get actually physically involved in the fight anyway if Toby wasn't there.  It always seemed like Toby was the one driving that, without Toby the HB's likely wouldn't have voluntarily offered reinforcements and such.  Even if they did, what are they even going to do?

Jara was good, he was brave.  But you sort of got the notion that without Toby explaining everything to them on their level, they wouldn't really grasp strategic concepts from Jake, and certainly not the big-picture stuff as far as the overall war.

"Free or dead!" is great and all, but if his idea of the former part is running straight at a bunch of Yeerk hosts screaming and waving his blades around yelling simplistic slogans, without any more complex strategy or guerrilla-tactics, they're going to end up the "dead" and not the "free".  Pretty much like how the HB homeworld invasion would have been an even more one-sided slaughter if Dak hadn't been born that generation to at least attempt to co-ordinate some form of resistance.  He failed, but all the same...
« Last Edit: April 14, 2015, 09:26:36 AM by NothingFromSomething »

Person Of Interest re-watch.  Still stunning as ever.

Offline NickDaGriff

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Re: Minor Characters
« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2015, 11:27:56 AM »
Menderash, in my mind, didn't want to go nothlit.  However, he is a good soldier and follows every order issued to him.  I think it was Caysath or some other high-ranking officer who came up with the plan for the rescue mission, and told Menderash to give up his body without even considering his wishes.  Menderash was probably expecting it to be a suicide mission, and everyone already thought he was dead along with the rest of the Intrepid's crew, so that kind of helped him accept the decision.

As for Jeanne and Santorelli, I think it makes sense that someone would be ready to volunteer for that mission.  Heck, look at how many people nowadays jumped at the opportunity to go on a guaranteed one-way trip to Mars.  In my headcanon, I feel like Santorelli did it for the adventure, while Jeanne did it to keep them all from doing anything that would blow up a potentially volatile intergalactic diplomatic situation.
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Offline DinosaurNothlit

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Re: Minor Characters
« Reply #25 on: April 14, 2015, 12:30:34 PM »
Right, but all of the interaction was pretty much between Toby herself and the group.  Tobias probably hung out with Jara and Ket a little from memory, but it was all pretty polite-social and not really much to do with the war.

I'm not really sure how the Hork-Bajir as a group would really be able to follow somewhat-complex plans or strategies, assuming they'd get actually physically involved in the fight anyway if Toby wasn't there.  It always seemed like Toby was the one driving that, without Toby the HB's likely wouldn't have voluntarily offered reinforcements and such.  Even if they did, what are they even going to do?

Jara was good, he was brave.  But you sort of got the notion that without Toby explaining everything to them on their level, they wouldn't really grasp strategic concepts from Jake, and certainly not the big-picture stuff as far as the overall war.

"Free or dead!" is great and all, but if his idea of the former part is running straight at a bunch of Yeerk hosts screaming and waving his blades around yelling simplistic slogans, without any more complex strategy or guerrilla-tactics, they're going to end up the "dead" and not the "free".  Pretty much like how the HB homeworld invasion would have been an even more one-sided slaughter if Dak hadn't been born that generation to at least attempt to co-ordinate some form of resistance.  He failed, but all the same...

Part of my point was, though, that the Hork-bajir didn't actually need to understand the war on a bigger scale, for what they were doing.  Even under Toby's leadership, they never did anything beyond very small-scale sabotage and rescue operations.  And they never coordinated with the Animorphs enough to warrant the kind of mutual understanding you're talking about.  The Animorphs did their own thing, the Hork-bajir did their own thing, and they never really interacted beyond a polite-social capacity anyway.  Well, they didn't until the end of the war, at which point they did start working together, but by then I think the Hork-bajir population would have understood the humans well enough to be able to follow their orders (which is pretty much all they were doing under Toby's leadership).  Odd as it is to think about, Jara's leadership versus Toby's leadership would not have changed much, beyond the Hork-bajir's overall motivations for fighting and dying.

For the record, we do know that Jara and Ket had at least the mental capacity to conduct some of the small-scale rescue operations that Toby did, because in HBC's prologue/epilogue they had already freed a few dozen Hork-bajir, and by that point Toby was still much too young to be helpful in combat operations.

And, for what it's worth, I think that Dak was a great leader, and, yes, his people needed him there to guide them.  His values seemed to resonate with those of the other Hork-bajir, in a way that Toby's didn't (I attribute this to Dak's upbringing among Hork-bajir, whereas Toby was raised among humans; she demonstrated very human qualities like ruthlessness, which Dak never did, and I see her as craving human/Andalite intelligence where Dak was far more leery of it).  In fact, the contrast between Dak and Toby is part of the reason I don't like Toby.  Maybe that's not quite fair to her, I suppose.  But, like I said, I don't mind that she is the way she is; she has loads of excellent reasons to be.  I'm just frustrated at the missed opportunity for character-building, if any of this had ever been pointed out in the books themselves.

Menderash, in my mind, didn't want to go nothlit.  However, he is a good soldier and follows every order issued to him.  I think it was Caysath or some other high-ranking officer who came up with the plan for the rescue mission, and told Menderash to give up his body without even considering his wishes.  Menderash was probably expecting it to be a suicide mission, and everyone already thought he was dead along with the rest of the Intrepid's crew, so that kind of helped him accept the decision.

Hmm, do you suppose maybe it was an honor-thing, for Menderash?  Andalites are very big on sacrificing themselves, and in #18 Ax was ashamed that he survived when other Andalites were dying.  So maybe Menderash had wanted to die with the rest of the Intrepid, and becoming a nothlit was his way of doing so.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2015, 12:34:15 PM by DinosaurNothlit »

Offline NickDaGriff

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Re: Minor Characters
« Reply #26 on: April 14, 2015, 09:08:20 PM »
Hmm, do you suppose maybe it was an honor-thing, for Menderash?  Andalites are very big on sacrificing themselves, and in #18 Ax was ashamed that he survived when other Andalites were dying.  So maybe Menderash had wanted to die with the rest of the Intrepid, and becoming a nothlit was his way of doing so.

Andalites do get quite a bit of survivor guilt, as we've seen.  Often times a fairly irrational extent of it from a human perspective.  It's part of their culture, part of their mentality, part of their instincts...  Everything is about the herd.  See these comments from the CinnamonBunzuh reviews:

[spoiler=Warning, long posts ahead]
Quote from: Cannoli on June 5, 2012 at 2:40 PM

Andalite honor insight - Andalites are grazing herd animals at heart. Thus their society is far more collectivist than ordinary humans, and they have less individualistic tendencies. Honor is the means by which people are judged capable and cooperative members of society in the absence of effective government or law enforcement (that's why barbarians and aristocrats make a bigger deal about honor - there are fewer laws to restrain them, so they use honor to govern themselves). Therefore, in a collectivist, herd-oriented social species, honor would be all about group mentality. Andalites are already inclined to put the general welfare ahead of their individual safety, so their honor is not like ours, which is needed to compell selfish greedy monkeys to share and to put our asses on the line for the greater good. A human gains honor by proving he is willing to stand up and risk his life. Andalites are already about that, so their honor has a different focus.

Ax is dishonored in his confrontations with Visser Three because he failed to eliminate a threat to the group. Visser Three retains honor, because he retreated against superior numbers, rather than get into a pissing contest when no advantage to the herd will accrue. Predators hunt herd animals by singling out an individual and getting him away from the group to take down as a pack or pride. For herd animals, getting outnumbered is a grave mistake, and evading such a circumstance is more useful to the group than fighting and falling (and in nature, that means you are strengthening the predators with a meal, and depriving the herd of your help).

For individualistic species like humans, honor overcomes our self-preservation instincts to encourage cooperation and benefit the group. For more socially-oriented species, like those descended from herd grazers (or pack hunters), honor would serve the role of shoring up their weak point - individual initiative. That's why they place so much emphasis on individual reputations and heroism, such as the lionization of Elfangor, whereas for humans, even though we admire and respect individual achievement and success, we reserve "honor" for self-sacrificing actions. Andalites don't need a code of honor to encourage self-sacrifice, they do that automatically. They need honor to encourage them to stand up and go the extra mile and show initiative, because it is through such efforts that the group progresses.

That's also why the suicide scene of the whole ship plays out without protest. Andalites are naturally inclined to go down together, and probably find more visceral comfort in dying as a group than surviving alone. That's also the whole deal with vecols later on - they can't pull their weight with the group, and so are cast out, and yet it is phrased by Andalites as if it is done for the benefit of vecol, rather than the group. To Andalites, being unable to carry your share must be horribly embarassing, because they are all about group first.

We are selfish & greedy, so when we put ourselves in a cripple's shoes, we think "I would want more for myself in that situation," and will sometimes give it if we can. Andalites are selfless and value the group so when they put themselves in the place of a guy with a missing tailblade, all they can think is "I would be so embarrassed at not being fully function in that situation, that I would not want to be around people."

Quote from: Cannoli on June 23, 2012 at 10:54 AM

And regarding the psychotic decisions of the Andalite military, my explanation is: Herd Animals. Large, grazing, herd grouping herbivores are some of the most vicious and dangerous animals in the world. Three of the legendary Big Five most dangerous big game animals in Africa are herbivores, the Elephant, the Rhino & the Cape Buffalo. They are all known to attack on little provocation, to engage in premeditated stalking and killing of victims, and to act on revenge. And these are animals that kill without the excuse of food.

Meanwhile, military historians such as John Keegan, have noted the most natural military societies are not hunters or farmers or urban communities, but pastoral nomads, whose lifestyle of herding large groups of animals gives them practice in group tactics and subordination to a common goal, and makes them very casual about killing. Hunters, like Indians and whatnot, have all sorts of rituals about killing a deer, but the Mongols or the Arabs were just like *whack* - dead cow or horse, let's eat. They were very pragmatic & unsentimental about life, and these were the guys who made huge piles of skulls, and tore cities to the ground and killed every last child of their enemies' population.

Andalites are evolved from big dangerous grazing animals (by Andalite homeworld standards, anyway), and their lifestyle is influenced by herd mentalities like the pastoral nomads to some extent. That's why they can do the group suicide thing we saw back in book 18. Ax's survivor guilt manifests DURING his escape. IIRC, humans don't suffer survivor guilt until they are safe and have the luxury of second-guessing themselves, but Ax was bummed that he was not being allowed to go off the cliff with the lemmings at the time.

Andalites operate in groupthink. Ax's moral condemnation to Estrid is "the people would not approve." Think about that for a minute: "You cannot carry out this action. It will not be popular." W.T.F.? In the finale we will see another example of this when Ax & Alloran try to stop the Andalites from wasting Earth. This also explains why Ax is so adamant about needing a prince to follow, and why the Andalites are both so hung up on deviations, like the disgrace of breaking Seerow's Kindness (endangering the herd), or vecols(more on that in two weeks), and on lionizing heroes like Elfangor. He's a kind of propaganda alpha male they use to encourage/inspire the rest of the herd.

I think I may have explained elsewhere why Ax felt he was in disgrace for not killing Visser 3, but V3 was able to "retreat with honor." For a herd animal, falling to predators means giving sustenance to those who threaten the herd. By living to fight another day, V3 helped his group, while Ax was disgraced for failing to eliminate a threat to his own group, despite having advantageous numbers. He had to go after V3 in his first book, because he was basically the calf cut off from the herd and dead meat on his own. They were encouraging him to throw away his life, because by their perspective he was a dead man walking. Ax was able to change up and break out of that mindset by attaching himself to a new "herd," and after that, his actions and honor are measured (in his mind) by his service to this new herd.

At least that's my guess. IDK, probably overthinking.

Quote from: Cannoli on July 7, 2012 at 3:12 PM

[...]

All in all, I'd say the Andalite prejudice against cripples is understandable, if not morally acceptable. For that matter, you don't see Andalites citing morality very often (hence their dickishness). Rather, they are always going on about honor or the greater good. Functionally speaking, honor is a system by which individuals are induced to do their part for society, so honor is just another way of saying "Greater Good." We help cripples because we can put ourselves in their shoes and say "If I were in that position, I would want help." We are instinctively selfish scavengers, so when we work at being nice to people we think of what we would want. Andalites are more selfless, so when Ax puts himself in Mertil's shoes (well for one thing, it might explain his hostility to Rachel in his last book), he isn't thinking "I would want help" or "I would want company" he is instead thinking "I would be so embarrassed at not being able to help my friends."

That might also why Mertil does not take Marco up on his offer - he doesn't want to waste the time of these warriors who are holding the line and defending their home planet and his current world of residence against their mutual enemies.

I think the Yeerks might not want Mertil because an Andalite is a bit conspicuous in a stealth invasion, without the combat potential of a Hork-Bajir. Also, a tall quadruped is probably not compatible with spaces, equipment and furniture designed for bipeds and crawling worms. And maybe the attitude toward vecols has leaked across from Alloran, and with Visser Three being the big Andalite expert, no one is going to contradict him when he rejects these guys as useless.
[/spoiler]

I think he took the mission because he just wanted to die, and going nothlit was just an inconsequential step in the way of that.  Kind of morbid, but yeah.  Andalites consider their bodies sacred, and he's already on his way to sacrifice his in honor of his crew.  From his perspective, that might take a bunch of the significance out of the equation, like it's already part of the gesture. 

What's really going to be painful is surviving.  That's the real kicker here.  If he finds Ax and gets him to safety, accomplishing his mission in full, then he is going to be completely alone.  He'd never fit in with his people ever again; his illustrious career ended as soon as The Intrepid was destroyed.  On Earth, he'd be facing trial for putting Earth at huge diplomatic risk with the Kelbrid, just like the rest of the Animorphs.  Remember, the mission is completely disavowed, so there can't be any outside help from the Andalite government.  You can't just put a planet in danger of being in the crossfire between two intergalactic powers.  That's how alliances are broken, and we only just made contact with a galaxy largely beyond our understanding.  We need the Andalite people at our side.  Every government everywhere would crucify him as a scapegoat if he was ever revealed.  He'd have to watch Ax go back to being a glorious decorated prince from a distance, while his people ignore his very existence.  He is either a vecol or a dead man, and he knows it.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2015, 09:19:44 PM by XenoFrobe »
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My sequel fic, Animorphs #55: The Following
My first Memoirs fic, A Geeky Gryphon's Origins

Offline vivaria

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Re: Minor Characters
« Reply #27 on: April 15, 2015, 01:27:23 AM »
Menderash, in my mind, didn't want to go nothlit.  However, he is a good soldier and follows every order issued to him.  I think it was Caysath or some other high-ranking officer who came up with the plan for the rescue mission, and told Menderash to give up his body without even considering his wishes.  Menderash was probably expecting it to be a suicide mission, and everyone already thought he was dead along with the rest of the Intrepid's crew, so that kind of helped him accept the decision.
Oh definitely, I wouldn't think that he wanted to, but felt it necessary. I had just assumed he volunteered since it made the most sense, being the last survivor to know the last location of the Blade ship and how to navigate through space to find it. But somehow the possibility that it had been Caysath or some other official to order him to it hadn't ever crossed my mind!

Not sure what to think about all the disability-related stuff, that's probably for a completely different thread I think. But the rest surely could make a lot of sense, and I find it to be very interesting. Any human would also feel survivor guilt after what Menderash went through, but maybe it is possible that it's on a whole other level for Andalites. Anyone would be more likely to think something like, "Why me? Why didn't anyone else survive with me?" But if this theory is correct, maybe for an Andalite, it could be more like, "Why me? Why didn't I die with them?"
Though I have to wonder if it's possible that the instincts of a human could potentially war with or even override a nothlit's former instincts? And if so, after at least a year of being human, could that impact Menderash's decisions? Would he no longer share the innate compulsions that adhere to Andalite structures? I've wondered this about Elfangor and Arbron before, too.

What's really going to be painful is surviving.  That's the real kicker here.  If he finds Ax and gets him to safety, accomplishing his mission in full, then he is going to be completely alone.  He'd never fit in with his people ever again; his illustrious career ended as soon as The Intrepid was destroyed.  On Earth, he'd be facing trial for putting Earth at huge diplomatic risk with the Kelbrid, just like the rest of the Animorphs.  Remember, the mission is completely disavowed, so there can't be any outside help from the Andalite government.  You can't just put a planet in danger of being in the crossfire between two intergalactic powers.  That's how alliances are broken, and we only just made contact with a galaxy largely beyond our understanding.  We need the Andalite people at our side.  Every government everywhere would crucify him as a scapegoat if he was ever revealed.  He'd have to watch Ax go back to being a glorious decorated prince from a distance, while his people ignore his very existence.  He is either a vecol or a dead man, and he knows it.
I cannot... believe... that you're making me feel so hard for this character that only shows up in the last few pages on the last book of the series. I cannot believe this. I'm impressed you got all that just from a small portion of the last book. Anyway, sadly, this sounds incredibly likely as to what would happen if they returned to Earth, and you just know the Andalite military wouldn't help, they had made a big deal about it and then washed their hands clean of it. Even a "they all lived!" ending for them would still be a sad one, hah.

Offline NickDaGriff

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Re: Minor Characters
« Reply #28 on: April 15, 2015, 06:04:23 AM »
Oh definitely, I wouldn't think that he wanted to, but felt it necessary. I had just assumed he volunteered since it made the most sense, being the last survivor to know the last location of the Blade ship and how to navigate through space to find it. But somehow the possibility that it had been Caysath or some other official to order him to it hadn't ever crossed my mind!

Not sure what to think about all the disability-related stuff, that's probably for a completely different thread I think. But the rest surely could make a lot of sense, and I find it to be very interesting. Any human would also feel survivor guilt after what Menderash went through, but maybe it is possible that it's on a whole other level for Andalites. Anyone would be more likely to think something like, "Why me? Why didn't anyone else survive with me?" But if this theory is correct, maybe for an Andalite, it could be more like, "Why me? Why didn't I die with them?"
Though I have to wonder if it's possible that the instincts of a human could potentially war with or even override a nothlit's former instincts? And if so, after at least a year of being human, could that impact Menderash's decisions? Would he no longer share the innate compulsions that adhere to Andalite structures? I've wondered this about Elfangor and Arbron before, too.

I definitely plan on exploring that.  For sure.  His body's gone.  All he has left is his mind, and that's being slowly and insidiously altered, possibly against his will.  He is gonna have issues.

I cannot... believe... that you're making me feel so hard for this character that only shows up in the last few pages on the last book of the series. I cannot believe this. I'm impressed you got all that just from a small portion of the last book. Anyway, sadly, this sounds incredibly likely as to what would happen if they returned to Earth, and you just know the Andalite military wouldn't help, they had made a big deal about it and then washed their hands clean of it. Even a "they all lived!" ending for them would still be a sad one, hah.

Oh yeah, overthinking plotlines and story consequences has been a hobby of mine since I watched Lost way back when and started getting into writing.  And as much as people may dislike #54, it is ripe with a ton of juicy plot details you can glean from examining it a bit closer.  Heck, my theory on The One spawned my ideas for a potentially five or six book fanfic.

Everyone that left aboard The Rachel is facing severe consequences if they go back to Earth.  Most likely years of prison, but who knows.  Maybe Marco, Jake and Tobias might get off a bit easier being the heroes who saved Earth and all.  Jeanne and Santorelli, however, could easily be executed for treason.  They went AWOL from their duties with their respective governments once they were in possession of highly advanced tech that was only allowed to them as a joint cooperation agreement from the Andalites, and then hijacked a shuttle and an advanced warship that both technically belonged to the Andalite fleet.  That looks bad.  Like, REALLY bad. 
« Last Edit: April 15, 2015, 06:12:20 AM by XenoFrobe »
[spoiler=A writer at heart:]
My sequel fic, Animorphs #55: The Following
My first Memoirs fic, A Geeky Gryphon's Origins

Offline Chad32

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Re: Minor Characters
« Reply #29 on: April 15, 2015, 08:08:45 AM »
You guys are making the ending even more of a downer than I thought it was, and I don't like it!  :'(


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