Author Topic: Animorphs vs. Harry Potter: Thoughts on the comparative popularity of each  (Read 2931 times)

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Offline darthdakka

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I've been thinking about this ever since the whole Harry Potter craze came and went: why do you guys think that Harry Potter got so popular while Animorphs stayed relatively small?

(PS: not sure if this is in the right forum or not)
 

Offline NothingFromSomething

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Re: Animorphs vs. Harry Potter: Thoughts on the comparative popularity of each
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2015, 12:12:45 AM »
Small?  Animorphs was only second to Goosebumps in terms of popularity before Potter hit, Potter took a while to really get huge too.  Circa '97, Animorphs pretty much was Harry Potter (pre-movies Potter, anyway).  Not quite to the same mega-extent of a cultural phenomenon, but it was hardly "relatively small".  Along with Goosebumps it was Scholastic's flagship youth series.

Person Of Interest re-watch.  Still stunning as ever.

Offline darthdakka

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Re: Animorphs vs. Harry Potter: Thoughts on the comparative popularity of each
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2015, 08:09:55 AM »
Small?  Animorphs was only second to Goosebumps in terms of popularity before Potter hit, Potter took a while to really get huge too.  Circa '97, Animorphs pretty much was Harry Potter (pre-movies Potter, anyway).  Not quite to the same mega-extent of a cultural phenomenon, but it was hardly "relatively small".  Along with Goosebumps it was Scholastic's flagship youth series.

Thats what I meant, that it's small in comparison to Harry Potter.

Offline NothingFromSomething

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Re: Animorphs vs. Harry Potter: Thoughts on the comparative popularity of each
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2015, 10:41:56 AM »
Well, now.  When Potter initially came out the year after Animorphs, they were pretty comparable for a while.  It took a year or two for Potter to go totally nuclear, but in the early days of both series they were pretty neck-and-neck.

Person Of Interest re-watch.  Still stunning as ever.

Offline DinosaurNothlit

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Re: Animorphs vs. Harry Potter: Thoughts on the comparative popularity of each
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2015, 03:07:46 PM »
Actually, I've heard it said that Harry Potter was part of the reason that Animorphs stayed small.  The two series' had similar fanbases; a lot of Anifans are also Potterheads, in other words.  And Harry Potter was gaining popularity almost in step with Animorphs losing it.  Which has led some people (mostly bitter Anifans) to decide that Harry Potter 'stole' some of the influence that Animorphs would have had otherwise.  Basically, people who would have gotten hooked on Animorphs, instead found Harry Potter and got so distracted that they put down the Animorphs books.

I don't really know if I buy it, personally.  I am a fan of both series, and while they share certain characteristics (immersive world-building, young protagonists dealing with the weight of saving the world, etc.), I don't know if they can really be considered similar enough that one could 'steal' the other's fanbase, one being sci-fi and the other being fantasy.  Not to mention that the tone of both series is very different.  The timing of Harry Potter's rise versus Animorphs's fall is pretty suspect, though; I have to admit that much.  *shrugs*  No way to know for sure, short of building a time machine and having a 'serious talk' with J.K. Rowling.

Offline NothingFromSomething

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Re: Animorphs vs. Harry Potter: Thoughts on the comparative popularity of each
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2015, 03:34:38 PM »
Right, yeah.  But I still think it's off-base describing Animorphs as being "small".  It's obscure as hell now, but in '96/'97/early '98 it was everywhere, Scholastic's big youth thing.  Like, taking up Potter levels of bookshelf space in Borders and such, I'm old and remember it.  :P  Haha.

Potter definitely stole its thunder, but it took a little while to become the big dog.  Goosebumps was still huge in those earlier years too.

Person Of Interest re-watch.  Still stunning as ever.

Offline darthdakka

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Re: Animorphs vs. Harry Potter: Thoughts on the comparative popularity of each
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2015, 07:03:32 PM »
Right, yeah.  But I still think it's off-base describing Animorphs as being "small".  It's obscure as hell now, but in '96/'97/early '98 it was everywhere, Scholastic's big youth thing.  Like, taking up Potter levels of bookshelf space in Borders and such, I'm old and remember it.  :P  Haha.

Potter definitely stole its thunder, but it took a little while to become the big dog.  Goosebumps was still huge in those earlier years too.

*shrugs* To be honest I don't really remember it being that big of a thing, but that could just be me forgetting details and the fact that to back when I was around the age of 7 or 8ish, the internet was basically the Necronomicon. So I didn't have much contact with any fans back then via the internet either.

Anyhow, sorry if I ruffled any feathers with that description.


Offline NothingFromSomething

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Re: Animorphs vs. Harry Potter: Thoughts on the comparative popularity of each
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2015, 07:11:17 AM »
The net wasn't as prevalent back then, for sure.  I'm not sure what year the Scholastic official site went up, it would have had to be '97 or something, K.A. taking direct fan questions back in the day.  Awesome times.

But yeah, all the old Scholastic paper catalogues they used to send out to elementary/middle schools, Animorphs was always plastered across the front pages and stuff.  Both in the U.S. and Australia, I moved back and forth a bit as a kid.

Person Of Interest re-watch.  Still stunning as ever.

Offline RYTX

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Re: Animorphs vs. Harry Potter: Thoughts on the comparative popularity of each
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2015, 12:53:24 PM »
Several thoughts:

Animorphs is immerisive, but nowhere near the levels of Harry Potter. Being based in the real world, for the most part, Animorphs, didn't need to spell out rules or make societies. But they also kept name, ages, locations, all hidden. Harry Potter give you back stories, genologies and other meaningless details for almost everyone and everything, which they kept coming back to.

On that note, the Harry Potter books tied together. There's only 7, but each is a part of the whole. We have another thread right now debating which books are skippable. It's a series, but most of the Animorphs books can be read independently and non-sequentially. It doesn't have that felling of involvement that which a character grow stepwise does.
Also being told from first person, Animorphs is more limited in story telling. You have to be there, or here it from someone who was. HP took you needed to be, you were an observer, first hand, not being told a story.

A large part of it was, I think, the films. And they were timed well. The first three are almost paired to the LOTR films, in the middle of the star wars prequels, it was a good time for fantasy film, which HP having that plus, by the way, this one stars kids. Kids relate to kids, and again, they worked to make it so you grow with the film characters. You have that audience, the ones that will grow into it, the ones that stay with it, and of course theirs some non-kid interest in wonder and adventure. The books were getting big before then of course, but we all know people who haven't read but have seen. And things like that grow the franchise, and the books are no longer the franchise alone. We'll never understand the effect of the books alone, because it had all this stuff going with it. ven if you started because of the films and wanted to learn the back stories though, you went to the books.

I know a number of people in teaching who give credit to HP for bringing reading back to a generation. At a time where ever room had a TV and console games weren't that expense, people-kids-didn't read for fun. But then this story came out that was getting big reviews, and getting a movie prepped, and teachers had copies, and it made kids feel good for reading something that was over 100 pages. In my mind, this might be the biggest thing. It (is credited to have) re-ignited an interest in reading. Everyone says reading is good, so if this is the thing you need to start people on to get them to read of things, everyone's gonna give it a try first, and because it is so condense and woven together, everyone has a stronger involvement. Saying Animorphs was the HP of it's time, even if true, is not as impress, because most kids weren't reading for fun (Everyone in my class was aware of Animorphs, but no one read them. Couple years later, same was true for HP, till the films, then they joined me there). If these teachers are right, it changed reading a popular book to reading something popular.

I like HP. My favorite books behind Animorphs. But I'll also say this, HP started to spike the same time Animorphs started to fall. I've admitted to dropping the series as a kid in the early thirties. At the same time, I was being encouraged to read HP (because at that time I only read Animorphs. Fun fact, it did not expand my desire to read more). So here's this series, that does have many aspects similar to Animorphs, but is new, and fresh and growing at a time Animorphs, story wise wasn't.  If you're familar with Kenshin, it was a great anime that had a horrible filler arc that killed the show. Even though the source material could have given the series a great pick up, the damage was done. Animorphs was weak for over a year, and that's a long time to falter for a publication that comes out monthly.


tl;dr: World crafting, character growth, films, timing, literacy, proportional quality.
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Offline AniDragon

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Re: Animorphs vs. Harry Potter: Thoughts on the comparative popularity of each
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2015, 07:58:20 AM »
Ha, I was one of the bitter Anifans who refused to read Harry Potter for a long time. (I didn't pick it up until Animorphs was completed) Mostly, I was pissed that all my favourite fanfiction authors dropped Animorphs for Harry Potter, and many were very rude about it. (There was more than one ff.net profile that said something along the lines of "I used to read Animorphs but it sucks now. Harry Potter 4ever!")
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Offline darthdakka

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Re: Animorphs vs. Harry Potter: Thoughts on the comparative popularity of each
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2015, 09:59:42 AM »
Ha, I was one of the bitter Anifans who refused to read Harry Potter for a long time. (I didn't pick it up until Animorphs was completed) Mostly, I was pissed that all my favourite fanfiction authors dropped Animorphs for Harry Potter, and many were very rude about it. (There was more than one ff.net profile that said something along the lines of "I used to read Animorphs but it sucks now. Harry Potter 4ever!")
Yeah I was the same way. Except it was with my friends and class mates, not the fanfic crowd.

Offline NothingFromSomething

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Re: Animorphs vs. Harry Potter: Thoughts on the comparative popularity of each
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2015, 03:09:22 AM »
I never had any problem with Potter, just couldn't get into it personally (I guess I'm just not a big wizards/magic fantasy guy).  But it was definitely pretty interesting seeing it snowball into this huge cultural phenomenon over a year or so.  And yeah, anything that got kids reading again is a positive.

I don't know about saying Potter's more "immersive" though, RYTX.  Animorphs is sort of 50% "regular midsize-town/city 1990s America" and 50s% crazy world-building and lore.  Potter's written with a bit more flair and literary-ness (making up words is fun, kids) though.  They both draw the reader into their own crazy worlds though, Animorphs just had the regular-life grounding to it.

Person Of Interest re-watch.  Still stunning as ever.

Offline RYTX

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I strongly disagree.

The majority of the books are the mission, and the missions are not always world building, especially after book 20 or so.
We're told they are normal kids, that's fine, we know what normal kids are, but we never really see those elements. We don't see they're non-Animorphs friends. We don't much about their families except their occupations, and that the kids care about them, but there's so little real dynamic relationships. HP you saw the family connections as more than the relationship name, you had sports, and trips to town and every book made out Christmas to be the biggest thing ever. Taking the time to do these things makes it feel more real. Animorphs was so other in travel, combat, or philosophical contemplation that what you were emerged in was the thoughts, not the world.

As for world building, it has a lot of elements, but if you NEVER come back to them, it's not so much world fixtures as features. The Venber, the Mak, the Iskroot even. I mean even the Pemalites, we know they were smart, happy, and " looked weirdly like a dog that could walk on its hind legs". What?! Yeah, I can get an image in my head from that, but come on, the unique elements of the world are given so little detail, I almost guarantee what I see when I think Pemalite wouldn't register with you as such. This gives you freedom to explore and create in addition to what is given without being wrong, but that's only done by those with the interest to go outside the book. The book itself does not draw you to that by being immersive itself, the other elements of it that intrigue with you do. Potter gives stupid amounts of detail for things like quidditch and government, and what's not explicit is alluded to having a canon. (Which extension books by JK often provide, but for sake of argument I don't consider them here.)
And seriously, the depth of the Animorphs universe is surprisingly limited. That animals are eating machines or flightly. In all the galaxy we see about a dozen aliens in any depth. Animorphs is character driven, and characters, again took time to tell you about the anticipation and reaction to an event, more than the details of the event, other than dialogue. The world came second.

Being real world grounded takes away for immersion if you don't go into the flowery details. Like Dickens will spend forever describing London streets, and even though most of his original audiences probably where familiar with London, taking the time to say it's like this and this and this cements an atmosphere and tone that makes it more real because of it's particulars. Saying it was like every other generic mall in America as the Animorphs so often did let's you build whatever the hell you want everytime, which is removing when later you find out the Gap was next to the Radioshack or something. Animorphs did not have the time space or need to do that, but by failing to do, you aren't in the setting even in the familiar world like your are in HP.
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Offline NothingFromSomething

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The Venber and Mak were just throwaway lines, though.  Like all the background aliens you see in bars and stuff in Star Wars, you don't need to know anything about them.  They're just there to show that there's a world beyond what you're actually focusing on, a bigger universe than the main story.  What's that if not world-building?

You get into Andalie & Hork-Bajir society in pretty significant depth, especially the former.  At least as much as you can through exposition, with an earth-focused story.  Even the Yeerks have their own sort of motivations and social rules and such.

Person Of Interest re-watch.  Still stunning as ever.

Offline RYTX

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I'm not saying that there's not world building, I'm saying that what world building there is isn't on the same level as HP. It's an earth focus story that has all these alien life forms, but never goes into them. Even the Andalites, we saw their military and not much else, even though we know there was much else, otherwise they would have just fried the planet in the end.

There's also more than what's shown, but even though they had a huge potential to flush out these features, not in their entirety, but more than names and vague description, they don't. It's an earth based story, a human based story, and the fact that they rarely go beyond that keeps it from being as richly developed as the Potter world was.

Which is a shame, because I feel it had more potential, from the morphs alone, to kindle the fact there's more than they can say than the Potter books did. Instead they just pointed it out.

And the Venber are not throwaway lines (Mak yes, Venber no): they had half a book, a genocide origin, and freakish revival and control. Just enough to start something, but then they never come back them. Don't even get back to the Yeerks being able to effectively engineering life (why the **** didn't this come up doing aqua horks in 36?!)
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