Tobias is a Horney Neurotic with Schizoid Tendencies

[NickDaGriff]

This is something I posted on the TVTropes WMG page.  Bear in mind I'm not the best at analyzing characters, but this seems to fit pretty well to me.

While writing a fanfic, it struck me that I was using the word neurotic to describe Tobias without a full understanding of what that meant. So I looked it up, and found this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurosis#Horney.27s_theory) which immediately rang out as matching Tobias' life story to a T. Now get your mind out of the gutter.

He started off with guardians who had no love for him whatsoever. His first impressions of the world were therefore extremely hostile ones. All he had were his dinosaurs to play with, so he invested himself in that little world of predators and prey, learning all he could about them. Any attempts to extract interest or attention from his uncle using his fantasies/interests as a bridge were immediately shot down (like the flashback in #33 with his drawing), causing him to draw further into the world he'd constructed in his head. Presumably the same thing happened with his aunt. This lead to the development of his schizoid tendencies, which I'll get to.

His world view was basically built around his interest in dinosaurs. The predators especially appealed to him, representing in his mind the control over the environment that he lacked, as well as various other positive traits: strength and confidence (T. Rex), family cohesion and cunning (Deinonychus), freedom and grace (Pteranadon), and so on. Predatory nature was his idealized solution to all the problems in the world. He'd developed his idealized self, so naturally, when the opportunity to fully realize it in a physical form arose, you freaking bet he jumped on it without even thinking. He kept pushing his luck with the time limit in the first book, and immediately after getting stuck, he was remarkably calm about it. Realizing that getting trapped might have been a mistake only occurred to him later.

When that regret hit in book 3, it was because of his aunt and uncle. They'd taught him from the cradle that being dependent on someone is the surest way to get hurt. To him, dependency only meant letting a person stomp all over your emotions while not giving a damn whether you were still even alive or not. He'd never killed a living thing before, so naturally he was squeamish about hunting. At the same time, relying on the guy he hero-worshiped (who was one of the last humans left that he could even hope to relate to) to feed and house him was opening the door to a soul-crushing betrayal and heartbreak. Toss in the new hawk instincts he couldn't get a single break from, and you have a recipe for a complete meltdown. Squeamishness proved easier to get over than a decade of neglect, thus kicking off his powerful drive for complete independence. Even staying at a friend's house now meant weakness in his mind. He accepted his fantasy self completely, and began holding himself to the standards of the free, independent predator he'd always idolized. It became a point of pride, and he would act defensively when anyone questioned his decision to live in the woods and risk starvation to the point of eating roadkill. There was no self-esteem underlying that pride, and that made it a vulnerable point for him. On some level, he knew he was acting irrationally, and even started questioning it occasionally (like thinking about how if Marco were the nothlit hawk, he would have no problem letting Rachel pamper him).

Things happened in the war, and he maintained his anxiety-driven compulsive behavior throughout. As he matured, the “solution” to his insecurities and conflicts became further withdrawal. The episode with Taylor certainly didn’t help matters here. After #33, every character commented on Tobias being more quiet and introverted. Taylor had managed to open him up, make him identify with her, and then hurt him like no one ever had before. At this point, he basically saw no choice but to hide himself deeper within his hawk shell. Just seek shelter in his now reinforced schizoid personality disorder.

Now, SPD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizoid_personality_disorder) is typified by a number of traits:

* Emotional coldness, detachment or reduced affect: He certainly comes off this way at times. There are numerous mentions of his piercing, unreadable hawk stare as he just watches the others discuss a topic. He probably says the least in group conversation out of all the animorphs, and when he does talk, it’s in a concise, sometimes blunt speech pattern. Going back to his neurosis, he prefers to keep people at a distance as a sort of defense mechanism (which really makes a bird of prey the most ideal morph for him in that way).
* Limited capacity to express either positive or negative emotions towards others: He certainly never had a problem yelling at people who annoyed him. He does get some sweet moments with Rachel too. Everything else is kind of a middle ground.
* Consistent preference for solitary activities: He spent three years in the woods to avoid all human contact. Yeah. That aside, he did spend most of his down time during the war just getting to know the city and spying on yeerks.
* Very few, if any, close friends or relationships, and a lack of desire for such: Granted, he can’t really go shopping for new friends with a war of secrecy going on, but still. It's mentioned that at first he followed Jake around only because Jake saved him from bullies. In Megamorphs #4, trying to fit him in the group without superpowers to bond over just led to him feeling excluded, and leaving.
* Indifference to either praise or criticism: Maybe not so much here. With his neurosis, his constructed pride lets him take praise in stride, but any criticism regarding his choice to live as a hawk is a very sore spot.
* Little interest in having sexual experiences with another person (taking into account age): He felt fairly confused about Rachel while watching her morph eagle. He liked (was fascinated, mesmerized by) seeing her morph a bird of prey, perhaps even in THAT way, but cites her species and morphed gender as a turnoff.
* Taking pleasure in few, if any, activities: He likes flying and the thrill of the hunt. Not much else.
* Indifference to social norms and conventions: He got pretty casual about his new mouse diet fairly quickly, in spite of what the others might have thought. He was self-conscious when Rachel caught him eating roadkill, but that was mostly his neurotic dependence issue, as he didn’t want her worrying about him.
* Preoccupation with fantasy and introspection: This is what set off his whole mindset in the first place. And boy howdy, is he introspective or what.

Growing up with a war to fight gave him one thing, at least. Comrades in arms. He developed friendships as best he was able, through a mutual “I’ve got your back,” type deal. Sadly, it just wasn’t enough to make a stable set of friendships. I feel like this is why he was so quick to dissolve all ties with everyone at the end. There was no more threat to necessitate the relationship, and they clearly didn’t have his back anymore, what with all the girlfriend-killing and such. His friendships were never based on actual love for the people, apart from Rachel.

Rachel was the one who could get past all his barriers and make him feel wanted. With just the right amount of assertiveness and forwardness, she was able to temporarily humble his pride and make him accept what she had to offer. For those brief moments, he was dependent, vulnerable, and not having his heart ripped out and stomped on. It was good for him. Given time, he might have built enough self-esteem for a relationship with someone else, because keeping him with Rachel wouldn’t be very healthy in the long term. Rachel was ultimately an unstable sociopath, and their relationship could turn abusive very easily without a war to redirect her frustration. That assertive forwardness she opened him up with also made him vulnerable to her. If she ever lashed out at him, that could have been devastating.

I’m not saying Rachel/Tobias was a necessarily bad thing, it was one of my favorite parts in the series. For the time it lasted, it was what they both desperately needed. Tobias, for the happiness and Rachel, for the humanity. And man, they had some great moments together.

Now here’s always what bugged me about the ending. I can handle a depressing-as-all-hell Bolivian Army Ending that leaves characters as broken emotional wrecks, but this one just left too many character threads lying open (including his alleged importance as Elfangor’s son, which never comes fully into play, but that’s a separate issue). With Rachel dead, Jake responsible, and Marco insensitively using the whole situation to milk attention from the whole world, suddenly his group of friends is no better than his aunt and uncle. Nothing is ever said about how Tobias handles being cramped into a ship with the person he probably despises more than anything else in the world. Not much room to fly on a small cruiser. No getting away there. He could spend his time perched in some part of the cargo hold or something, watching… What? Imaginary mice? Yeah, no hunting either. Just rationed protein pellets.  All he can do is stress and worry about the person he identifies with most. 

FOR MONTHS.

He’d be reaching the breaking point by the time The One showed up. If they didn’t find Ax, one way or another, something would snap. God only knows what.

So what are your thoughts?  Am I on track, or am I completely misinterpreting the character and projecting too much of myself on him?  All I know is, I really identify with this whole mindset, and Tobias's character in general. 

[pallosalama]

Sounds convincing, however all those treats of personality might be just something else. Do not take me wrong, your analyzation looks very good and well argumented, I just tend to challenge about every information I've given. I'm not saying it isn't possible, but I'm not also saying it is.
In other words, I am saying nothing 

[donut]

* Emotional coldness, detachment or reduced affect: He certainly comes off this way at times. There are numerous mentions of his piercing, unreadable hawk stare as he just watches the others discuss a topic. He probably says the least in group conversation out of all the animorphs, and when he does talk, it’s in a concise, sometimes blunt speech pattern. Going back to his neurosis, he prefers to keep people at a distance as a sort of defense mechanism (which really makes a bird of prey the most ideal morph for him in that way).
* Limited capacity to express either positive or negative emotions towards others: He certainly never had a problem yelling at people who annoyed him. He does get some sweet moments with Rachel too. Everything else is kind of a middle ground.
* Consistent preference for solitary activities: He spent three years in the woods to avoid all human contact. Yeah. That aside, he did spend most of his down time during the war just getting to know the city and spying on yeerks.
* Very few, if any, close friends or relationships, and a lack of desire for such: Granted, he can’t really go shopping for new friends with a war of secrecy going on, but still. It's mentioned that at first he followed Jake around only because Jake saved him from bullies. In Megamorphs #4, trying to fit him in the group without superpowers to bond over just led to him feeling excluded, and leaving.
* Indifference to either praise or criticism: Maybe not so much here. With his neurosis, his constructed pride lets him take praise in stride, but any criticism regarding his choice to live as a hawk is a very sore spot.
* Little interest in having sexual experiences with another person (taking into account age): He felt fairly confused about Rachel while watching her morph eagle. He liked (was fascinated, mesmerized by) seeing her morph a bird of prey, perhaps even in THAT way, but cites her species and morphed gender as a turnoff.
* Taking pleasure in few, if any, activities: He likes flying and the thrill of the hunt. Not much else.
* Indifference to social norms and conventions: He got pretty casual about his new mouse diet fairly quickly, in spite of what the others might have thought. He was self-conscious when Rachel caught him eating roadkill, but that was mostly his neurotic dependence issue, as he didn’t want her worrying about him.
* Preoccupation with fantasy and introspection: This is what set off his whole mindset in the first place. And boy howdy, is he introspective or what.

Or he's a hawk.

[GalagaGuru]

I don't think Tobias is antisocial enough or apathetic enough to diagnose with Schizoid personality disorder, at least not early- or mid-series. He stayed neutral in arguments, sure, but when an issue of trust or honor arose, he was often the most passionate, just look at his relationship with Ax.

Arguments could be made about his time in seclusion at the end of book 54, but even then, he did maintain contact with Cassie at the time, which is why I think he was still basically fine when Jake asked him to join him.

[NickDaGriff]

Sounds convincing, however all those treats of personality might be just something else. Do not take me wrong, your analyzation looks very good and well argumented, I just tend to challenge about every information I've given. I'm not saying it isn't possible, but I'm not also saying it is.
In other words, I am saying nothing 

To be fair, SPD often does go undiagnosed because it can look like a variety of other things on the surface (Asperger's, depression, early stages of schizophrenia, etc.).  So who knows?

I don't think Tobias is antisocial enough or apathetic enough to diagnose with Schizoid personality disorder, at least not early- or mid-series. He stayed neutral in arguments, sure, but when an issue of trust or honor arose, he was often the most passionate, just look at his relationship with Ax.

Arguments could be made about his time in seclusion at the end of book 54, but even then, he did maintain contact with Cassie at the time, which is why I think he was still basically fine when Jake asked him to join him.

Well yeah, but that's why I specified tendencies, and noted exceptions.  Having SPD doesn't necessarily make him completely apathetic or antisocial.  His friendships were always very few, but very solid in nature, which is one of the criteria.  We don't really know how his post-war relationship with Cassie worked either.  For all we know, she might have stumbled onto his meadow one day by accident, or Toby might have slipped up/confessed to her in conversation.  The latter strikes me as most likely, because he was far closer to the Hork-Bajir than Cassie throughout the whole series, and it was Toby, not Cassie that led Jake to his meadow.  Cassie might not have even known where he was, and just told Jake that Toby did.  And then, the only reason he even considered listening to Jake was because Jake mentioned Ax.  So yeah.  Few true friends, but on solid foundations.  I think it fits.

Or he's a hawk.

This hypothesis does not strike me as immediately plausible.  Please present evidence for this wild and fanciful speculation.  _/sarcasm

Yeah, it could just be that he's got a solitary wild animal trapped in his head for as long as he keeps that body.  But I think he was like this even before he went nothlit.  I'm gonna go reread MM4 again.

[donut]

I don't so much mean that the hawk instincts have taken root in those areas, although they might have, I mean he's a hawk.  Except for a few people, humans are attracted to humans, mice to mice, cats to cats, and hawks to hawks.  He isn't going to hang around the school to keep talking to the other anis during the day.  His piercing gaze is mostly from not being able to make many or maybe any facial expressions.  He doesn't get to practice talking with people except basically Ax.  He's going to pick up Ax's habits.  He can't really do anything other than fly, hunt, and spy on people.  And he definitely can't introduce himself to someone new.  Although I'd definitely love to watch that conversation.

Most of what you said is about how he lived once he no choice.  You don't get to see his reaction to going past the time limit.  He had spent the better part of a day already trapped.  Either major events hit him really late, or he had already gone through the "Oh S***" phase.  Anything after he was trapped can't really be used to say anything since he's forced to be that way.

[NothingFromSomething]

*Sighs*

[NickDaGriff]

I don't so much mean that the hawk instincts have taken root in those areas, although they might have, I mean he's a hawk.  Except for a few people, humans are attracted to humans, mice to mice, cats to cats, and hawks to hawks.  He isn't going to hang around the school to keep talking to the other anis during the day.  His piercing gaze is mostly from not being able to make many or maybe any facial expressions.  He doesn't get to practice talking with people except basically Ax.  He's going to pick up Ax's habits.  He can't really do anything other than fly, hunt, and spy on people.  And he definitely can't introduce himself to someone new.  Although I'd definitely love to watch that conversation.

Most of what you said is about how he lived once he no choice.  You don't get to see his reaction to going past the time limit.  He had spent the better part of a day already trapped.  Either major events hit him really late, or he had already gone through the "Oh S***" phase.  Anything after he was trapped can't really be used to say anything since he's forced to be that way.

You're right, those are pretty good points. 

Now, I'm not a psychologist, or any sort of expert on this.  But, from the research I've done, SPD seems to be caused by external factors, such as social deprivation/rejection, negligent guardians, etc.  So while I think he was basically set on this course from early childhood, the lifestyle he was forced into as a secretive hawk-child soldier would still contribute.  When all he can do is observe people from up in the air, that's just going to reinforce certain attitudes and behaviors.

Additionally, he was never actually forced into the specific path he took.  He didn't actually have to hunt for food or live out in the woods, that was just him being unable to reconcile the differences between his fantasy of a predator and the reality of it at first, causing him to temporarily succumb to the hawk instincts.  After 3, he could have stayed with the others and interacted with them more.  That much was a choice. 

I know he can't make facial expressions, and so did the other anis, but the way they described him felt to me like they perceived him as a little cold.  That's why I included it in there.  He may not actually be cold and apathetic, but he can come off that way, and it's more than just his facial expressions.  There are still other ways to communicate emotion.  People sometimes think of me that way, based solely on the fact that I don't talk as much as others.  I'm kinda laconic IRL. 

As for his reaction to becoming nothlit, I did say it hit him late.  He was oddly calm about it in the end of book 1 (which was only a couple of hours, probably directly after he'd gotten out of the pool, so maybe he was in shock from the battle and the realization), seemed mostly okay with it in book 2, then got bludgeoned with reality pretty hard in book 3.  See, to me, Tobias' whole character is fascinating because it represents a deconstruction of the furry/therian mindset.  "If I could just turn into an animal and run away into the woods, all my problems would disappear!"  Marco even called him out on it once or twice in the first couple books.  That's part of the reason I identify so well with him, because I went through that in high school alongside a lot of depression (basically what inspired most of my writing and interests).  It's interesting, considering that that was a thing not a lot of people were very aware of in the '90s.  Kudos to Applegate for creating deep, realistic characters that generate this much discussion.

[InCatMorph]

I find it much more likely to simply say that Tobias is a kid on the autism spectrum who went through a truly horrible life from start to finish and in response developed highly idiosyncratic and probably harmful coping mechanisms. It makes more sense, and his descriptions of his childhood match this description just as much, if not more.

I also disagree that some of these things are really applicable to him.  Indifference to praise?  He clearly appreciates praise from Jake and hearing that his contributions are appreciated by the group. Indifference to social conventions? If that were the case, he wouldn't have nearly so many insecurities as he clearly does.  I wouldn't say that he doesn't take pleasure in many activities, either.  His memories from when he was being tortured demonstrate that he enjoyed a range of things, not just flying, and particularly the few positive relationships he was available to develop throughout his life. And if nothing else, I think he enjoys throwing barbs at Marco. (But not only that--heck, this is a guy who watches soap operas with Ax on a daily basis.) 

[NickDaGriff]

I find it much more likely to simply say that Tobias is a kid on the autism spectrum who went through a truly horrible life from start to finish and in response developed highly idiosyncratic and probably harmful coping mechanisms. It makes more sense, and his descriptions of his childhood match this description just as much, if not more.

I also disagree that some of these things are really applicable to him.  Indifference to praise?  He clearly appreciates praise from Jake and hearing that his contributions are appreciated by the group. Indifference to social conventions? If that were the case, he wouldn't have nearly so many insecurities as he clearly does.  I wouldn't say that he doesn't take pleasure in many activities, either.  His memories from when he was being tortured demonstrate that he enjoyed a range of things, not just flying, and particularly the few positive relationships he was available to develop throughout his life. And if nothing else, I think he enjoys throwing barbs at Marco. (But not only that--heck, this is a guy who watches soap operas with Ax on a daily basis.)

Again, I'm not saying that my hypothesis is necessarily the be-all-end-all, and it's not 100% applicable.  That's why I specifically used the word tendencies.  That said, Autism spectrum and SPD do have a lot in common on the surface.  Both can be diagnosed off quite a few of the exact same symptoms and behaviors (I know this from personal experience).  It may even be a bit of both.  The reason I think SPD is more likely here is because Autism spectrum is generally more detrimental to social skills, which Tobias does possess to a good extent.  Besides, the potentially harmful coping mechanisms you mention are exactly what I'm talking about here.  Based on the research I've done, SPD comes about largely from environmental factors.  It is a coping mechanism for him.

* I said he takes praise in stride.  That doesn't necessarily mean he's indifferent, but he leans slightly toward it.  His reaction to criticism shows that this point isn't fully applicable anyway.
* Indifference to social conventions is a large part of his character.  Social conventions are the unwritten "rules," or the "norm," of ordinary human behavior.  After #3, a lot of his more human behaviors go out the window, and he pretty much gives up on his humanity after #33, at least until Loren shows up.  There are a variety of reasons behind it, but this one is applicable.
* Consider that the torture machine was specifically digging through every happy memory it could find and bringing it to the forefront.  That kind of biases the information we're given.  Moreover, the specific memories were less about activities he enjoyed, and almost all just moments of simple, basic pleasure where nothing bad was happening to him (he had a very sad life ).  True, he does seem to like the occasional verbal sparring with Marco, and the soaps are a great thing for him and Ax.  So those are two more things.  Still, I feel like his range of interests is generally very narrow and focused (as it would be if he were on the Autism spectrum as well).

[InCatMorph]

TBH I don't really know much about these diagnoses, or even if I would consider them legitimate per se. (Seriously, if you look at the DSM you can diagnose pretty much anyone with a kind of personality disorder. They aren't easily testable.)

I'm on the autism spectrum myself, and have known plenty of other people who are, and Tobias reads to me as that. I think there are oftentimes some misconceptions about what problems in social skills look like in people on the autism spectrum. It does not necessarily mean that a person is constantly making obvious faux pas.  Besides, we don't really even see Tobias in many normal social situations, and when we do he isn't particularly skilled at them at all.  (Though, of course, that is attributed in-text to him forgetting how to act like a human.)  It's also interesting that he develops the closest relationships with people who are pretty odd and non-conforming themselves--Ax is obviously so, but Rachel is also pretty out-of-the-box in her assertiveness and general Rachel-ness.

From what I recall of his memories while being tortured, a lot of the positive memories included positive sensory experiences (both as a hawk and human), which is consistent with being on the spectrum. They also included memories of being with his friends and the few people who were positive towards him in his pre-Animorphs life. To me, that just doesn't reflect the kind of social disengagement you're suggesting.  When he did disengage almost completely from other people, it was because he couldn't stand to live with his grief in any kind of normal way, and used the hawk as a shield just as he had been doing for most of the series.  He doesn't do that for lack of feeling, but because he feels too much.

I think his coping mechanisms are rooted in both his experiences and his natural tendencies towards using escapism.  He did tell us that as a kid he played with dinosaurs, developing an impressive body of knowledge about them, as a means of escape.  He also apparently was into art.  When he became an Animorph he was able to escape assuming another life as a hawk.  But even then, I wonder if he knew some things about birds before becoming one.  He does seem to know an awful lot, including about thermals, difference species, etc., that wouldn't necessarily be gleamed merely from being a hawk.

[NothingFromSomething]

Holy...

Holy crap.  I just...

Come on, guys.  He was just a kid from a broken home, who wasn't very sure of himself and kind of a dreamer/arty type, and thus picked on at school.  It's all well and good to theorize and interpret, but there's zero basis in the books to back up Tobias being autistic.  That's grasping.  Socially, he's pretty much completely adept, aside from having trouble with bullies and making a few comments about the mall creeping him out. 

Major, major overstating.

[InCatMorph]

Okay, but that's your interpretation, too.

There is such a thing as the Broader Autism Phenotype, and IMO Tobias is at the very least that.

[NothingFromSomething]

'Cause, what, he wasn't popular?  The whole "spectrum" phenomenon is pretty inconclusive anyway, but without getting into all that, it's a pretty arbitrary notion to label Tobias as a part of it due to being quiet.  There's absolutely jack in the books to say he didn't function socially, and his interaction with the rest of the kids is at the very least normal. 

[InCatMorph]

I don't label Tobias as spectrummy just because he's quiet. There's much more to it than that, as I think I have explained.

And if you don't think that the spectrum is valid as a concept, or that people on the spectrum can't "function socially" at all (in ways you define), then there's not a whole lot I can say.

I also do recall the books saying A LOT about his unusual affect and gestures, on occasion leading to social awkwardness on the rare occasion he interacted with someone outside of the Animorphs, such as when he was in DeGroot's office.  Of course, his social presentation has the in-universe explanation of his living a hawk, but I don't see why it's not valid to speculate that there might be another reason, too.  I'm not saying he wasn't influenced by his experiences, or that you have to agree with me.