Author Topic: Cassie's Betrayal  (Read 7800 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Chad32

  • God
  • ********
  • Posts: 11951
  • Karma: 195
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cassie's Betrayal
« Reply #45 on: September 26, 2008, 05:12:38 PM »
They took out the answer to one of the oldest questions in the history of the series: Did Tobias trap himself on purpose, or not?

Not that it really mattered in the end, but that may be one reason why he didn't return to Loren in the end. I still wish she would have at least been mentioned after she was rescued, to give some reason why she was returned to the series in the first place. That's another topic altogether, though.


Ani-Master 2014!

Offline filmstu2005

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 177
  • Karma: 22
Re: Cassie's Betrayal
« Reply #46 on: September 26, 2008, 06:11:59 PM »

2)Jake didn't kill Tom in the dream. He became Tom, and Tom became the tiger. So she basically helped that dream become a reality.

Actually, I think that's the point. In a way it was a prophecy. Its interesting that Cassie became a part of it when it was Jake's own to begin with. She enabled it to happen.  Things were definitely coming full circle.

And I really enjoyed reading that deleted text from the book. Although I understand y it was a huge plot hole, it was still a very powerful piece that should've been kept in, moved to an earlier point in the story, only a little less wordy.

Offline Gafrash

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 532
  • Karma: 31
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cassie's Betrayal
« Reply #47 on: September 29, 2008, 10:29:39 AM »
I have mixed feelings about this topic.
K.A. plays with the notion of Good X Right.

A character doesn't have to be perfect goodie goodie to be liked. This is as close to dumb and stupid that Cassie will ever get, to me. It's where you can see her sentimental caring side getting on the way of the bigger picture. We are talking about an individual with no question that she WOULD NOT sacrifice a human life for the sake of the greater whole. And that's admirable, thought double crossing to the ends of the whole Animorphs' efforts against the Yeerk Invasion on this last DESPERATE phase of their conflict.

I, too, hold it totally against her, Nohensen. I thought all sorts of bad stuff about Cassie upon first reading this. Crazy. Dumb. Stupid. were words that came to mind along with curses.
But I liked the Cassie-character nevertheless. There was a lot happening there!
CASSIE KNEW JAKE through all those years. Jake, at a deep level, had been fighting this war in the name of his family, to protect his parents and to ultimately save his brother. When he lost these three presences in his life, he felt he had lost his reasons and, quite unconsciously, began 'falling apart'. Cassie HAD SEEN that the boy she liked had c-o-m-p-l-e-t-e-l-y changed. If losing his parents to the enemy did this to him, she KNEW that Jake killing Tom would damn right finish him.

...do you really think Jake should have killed his brother? Should he have been the one to do it? Do you recall a scene in Book 30 i think, The Reunion. Marco cast his own b.s. aside to target his mom. He was actually going to kill his mother. He charged straight at her in hopes of knocking her off the mountain so she'd fall to her death. But do you remember what happened next? Jake, yes, JAKE interfered and tackled him. He stopped Marco from killing his own mother b/c he knew it would destroy Marco. Marco the comedian. The ruthless strategist. I think we can argue that Marco was mentally stronger than Jake. He'd already dealt with his mother's death, and seeing her return was just as painful. Had it been Jake in his place, I think Jake would've broke apart.

So Cassie stopping Jake from killing his own brother was justifiable. Jake himself had already done the exact same thing. Cassie saved him because they needed him. It wouldve messed him up. Remember what Rachel told Marco in the final scene of The Reunion. Marco didnt know what to do. He wasn't sure if he could survive the situation and end up killing his mother. He wondered about that choice. And Rachel said, "Well, I'd hope that someone would come along and take that choice away from me." Which is exactly what Cassie did.

I think Cassie did the right thing. You can be mad with her all you want, but she was essential to them winning the war against the Yeerks. A war that was able to offer hope in the end to other species. Rachel made a great sacrifice, and it mattered in the end. Jake wouldve been messed up if he had to kill Tom, especially right after losing his whole family to the Yeerks. But we can also say it was K.A.'s way of leaving our Animorph heroes with no hope and in their darkest hour. Its the way the story had to go. Its called Drama.

Awesome comparison here, filmstu2005.

You shouldn't isolate that climactic moment when Cassie lets Tom escape and ignore the rest of the book, how the writer set up Cassie's decision.

Jake was depressed and was no longer being a good leader. Cassie didn't know how to handle the situation. She calls him a coward then regrets it immediately. Subsequently she bites her tongue and follows Jake as he makes morally questionable decisions and gives morally questionable orders. She holds back because she knows Jake isn't in the mood to deal with her questioning his judgment. She gets frustrated with the naivete her parents display among the Hork-Bajir, but her dad calls her out on the immoral way he thinks she and the Animorphs have been acting. Cassie gets frustrated and flies away without saying goodbye, afterwards realizing that it's possible she won't see him again.

If you isolate that one moment when she stops Jake, you overlook how the whole book was setting up that there was all this pressure building up on Cassie, coloring her judgment in that crucial moment.

And good point here, too, Hylian Dan. From a plot perspective the pressure was building on Cassie. She was bound to do something. It was her proposal to make those disabled kids auxiliary Animorphs.

Yes, there could have been a better way to do what she 'unconsciously' (I believe) accomplished. BUT WHERE would the story and plot action fit. I liked it for the precise fact that it made me pissed at Cassie. For the fact that I would have done differently. A wolf and a tiger COULD HAVE DONE something more than just letting a human-controller get away with their one invaluable weapon.
To me this was one of the greatest twists and highlights of the whole series. I was gutted by the end of The Ultimate!!!
I remember, at that point, the tone of the book itself had kinda already changed with The Revelation. It was no longer about 'morphing a new animal per title' per si. It leaned more towards warfare kind of thing. But, with The Ultimate, things got the feeling of completely plain desperate for those kids.


Offline Gafrash

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 532
  • Karma: 31
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cassie's Betrayal
« Reply #48 on: September 29, 2008, 10:36:06 AM »
OH! I just read that deleted final chapter.

3 000 000 000 000 000 000 X DAMNS!!!

I wish, really wish, K.A. SOMEHOW fitted those scenes in!
It didn't feel like it would have bogged down the story. It actually would have given a lot better closure to the way the story on The Ultimate ended and given hope to the addition of the auxiliary Animorphs. As opposed to the somewhat sudden ending that we know of. Real let down.

Come to think of it, that book felt so rushed. Like the Ghostwriter rushed it or something. Especially that battle scene at the end. Such an important book.

Offline Hylian Dan

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 162
  • Karma: 58
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cassie's Betrayal
« Reply #49 on: September 29, 2008, 06:25:16 PM »
I noticed there's an earlier point in #50 where Cassie wonders about Tobias, which makes more sense now. But I mostly agree with what Jeff posted on the other forum about the deleted ending:
Quote
You know, I feel like that point had already been made in earlier books. Several times. Like, every single Tobias book Probably didn't seem so vital to Tonya also, which was probably why it was cut. I don't disagree with the deletion. I mean, why bring that up at the end of #50, anyway? I don't remember Tobias's choice being involved in the plot in any way. It mostly seems like a segue to that bit of wisdom from Ms. Morris. I recall from interviewing her for the Anibase that she has strong opinions on the treatment of handicapped people -- which is why this was probably a good book for her to do. But her job wasn't to make such a strong, opinionated statement like that. That's the same reason the ending of #28 got rewritten -- the writer for that one, Amy Garvey, was a vegetarian and made a big anti-meat statement.

Not that what was written wasn't a valid point, but I don't think it was necessary. What was more important in the end of that book was the emotions between Jake and Cassie, and Cassie's confusion over her choice, even though she thinks she did the right thing. That's what the book needed to end on, not on the opinions of the author.

Besides, don't you think it rang kind of false for Cassie? She never seemed to hate the human race like she seems to in that passage.

I liked the note the book ended on without the extra material, how it was so sudden. Something huge had just happened and the abrupt way the book closes seems to emphasize the cliffhanger.

I reread that scene again where Cassie hands over the cube. I noticed that an unknown Yeerk, probably from the Peace Movement, had saved Jake's life in that same exact chapter--that's definitely meant to be tied to Cassie's decision.

I loved how she described the forest, how it was the darkest place Jake had ever entered, and how it would completely destroy him. I also got the impression this time around that Cassie did have an inkling of what surrendering the cube would do to the war. There's that moment when she thinks about how Jake and Tom are killing each other over a box, and she has a sort of epiphany there, it seems. She was taken out of the moment and saw everything, the entire war, in a different light, saw the concept of war as ridiculous and stupid and wrong. All the pressure and confusion she had been dealing with pushed her to that point where she saw the war in those terms at that moment.


Offline filmstu2005

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 177
  • Karma: 22
Re: Cassie's Betrayal
« Reply #50 on: October 01, 2008, 02:49:10 PM »
I agree with ^^^^^^that guy.  Very well put.

Offline SkyMorpher

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 639
  • Karma: 16
  • Gender: Female
  • Fly high, seek peace, God bless (Formerly Animel23
Re: Cassie's Betrayal
« Reply #51 on: May 02, 2009, 11:35:48 PM »
Why did the plot hole mean it had to get cut? Wouldn't keeping it in have fixed the plot hole?

BTW if Cassie hadn't surrendered the cube and Jake had killed Tom...would Rachel have still been alive? Tom's snake morph bit her and she had to demorph to fix it....so if he hadnt' been able to morph maybe she'd have lived?

Offline Chad32

  • God
  • ********
  • Posts: 11951
  • Karma: 195
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cassie's Betrayal
« Reply #52 on: May 03, 2009, 12:29:03 AM »
I would bet on Rachel still being alive. Though they would need to find another way to get into the Pool Ship, without Tom's Yeerk assisting. Maybe a member of the peace movement, or if Tom lived he could have pretended he was still a controller. I don't know. It could have still worked.


Ani-Master 2014!

Offline goom

  • the underling of underlings
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 8929
  • Karma: 690
  • Gender: Male
  • no other distinguishing characteristics.
    • Twitch.TV Streams
Re: Cassie's Betrayal
« Reply #53 on: May 03, 2009, 01:38:40 AM »
A; forcing his cousin to die in order to kill him
B; commiting genocide
C; taking the animorphs public
D; getting a US military battalion killed
E; getting a ton of Hork Bajir killed
F; getting the auxiliary animorphs killed
G; getting their home town bombed off the face of the earth

Also, she condemned Tobias to depression, though thats partly his fault for allowing it to control him.
In short, Jake would have alot less on his concience and many many many fewer people would have been dead if she hadnt been so stupid.

yeah, i think that cassie's decision was a poor choice.
even if some good came out of it, she couldn't have possibly predicted what would result from her action.

Offline ThinkAgain

  • Jr. Xtreme Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1299
  • Karma: 73
  • Gender: Male
  • What to say?
Re: Cassie's Betrayal
« Reply #54 on: May 03, 2009, 11:39:31 AM »
I agree it was a major plot element, but it was unnecessary. I know it's been said before, but as a wolf, Cassie could have run down Tom, tackled him without any serious injury, stole the cube, and ran. It wouldn't even be that difficult.

It's still questionable, that without the Yeerks ever having the cube, would the Animorphs have ever realized that offering Yeerks to become nothlits would have been a major key to success? Or without the dramatic amoral actions that goom just mentioned, would the war have reached its apex before the Anadalites decided to 'Quarantine' Earth?

As a general question, what is the deleted scene/ending/chapter that Dan brought up?

What does it mean to be free?

Offline Chad32

  • God
  • ********
  • Posts: 11951
  • Karma: 195
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cassie's Betrayal
« Reply #55 on: May 03, 2009, 12:25:47 PM »
I think the deleted scene is where Jake takes the cube to someone to give him the power, as was agreed, but it happened after Tom's Yeerk took the cube. Thus it is a plothole. I think there's also a part where Tobias says something about Humans, in a way that makes it seem like he doesn't consider himself Human anymore. That proves what many of us believed about Tobias trapping himself on purpose those years before.


Ani-Master 2014!

Offline Starsword

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 285
  • Karma: -5
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cassie's Betrayal
« Reply #56 on: May 03, 2009, 01:16:17 PM »
I find it kind of amazing, considering how proud many of the Yeerks were, that surrendering the cube did so much. I would think that a large majority would want to stay Yeerk. We are not just talking living peacefully, no Kandrona, we are saying "Lets put our hands and lives entirely into the trust of our mortal enemies." I can see the morphing cube dealing a blow, but not a crippling one. Yes, they took a pool ship, but there are plently of Yeerks left to form a formidable resistance.
Until then we fight.

Sakki De Roxea

  • Guest
Re: Cassie's Betrayal
« Reply #57 on: May 13, 2009, 05:33:04 PM »
this was simply an affair of the heart,nothing could be done.
If we were talking in a rl situation could you bring yourself to do it?
Change the one you love forever?
I dont think you could.
Maybe in your mind it was wrong,
But she did nothing wrong.
The affects however...

Offline Chad32

  • God
  • ********
  • Posts: 11951
  • Karma: 195
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cassie's Betrayal
« Reply #58 on: May 13, 2009, 10:22:17 PM »
this was simply an affair of the heart,nothing could be done.
If we were talking in a rl situation could you bring yourself to do it?
Change the one you love forever?
I dont think you could.
Maybe in your mind it was wrong,
But she did nothing wrong.
The affects however...
I could bring myself to take the third option. She messed up. Of course I've explained it earlier in this thread. I read the book, and the third option was easy for me to see as I read it. You could say she instinctively, or subconsciously, did it on purpose if you want. But there's no proof of that, that I can see.


Ani-Master 2014!

Offline Shark Akhrrana

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 771
  • Karma: 48
  • Gender: Female
  • OOOH FISH
    • Chronicles of Hyrule
Re: Cassie's Betrayal
« Reply #59 on: May 18, 2009, 01:59:27 AM »
I think she just didn't see that third option.
She seems to believe in a world where things are black and white not all shades of gray.
she only saw what was in front of her and didn't think of how it could back fire or how  it could go wrong.

I don't hate her its just she is not a Warrior.

She was basically the only one in the team that saw the yeerks differently she saw them more like people than anyone else and that also influenced her decision.


===============================================