Marco killing Karen

[Canicula]

Would you seriously say the live of one single person is more important then the whole human race? You must consider what depended on their choices. If they would have starved the Yirk out and kept Karen by the Chees or the Hork Bajirs and she would have escaped the Yirks would have found her and they would have re-infested her. And then would have found the animorphs and that would have been the end. No more war, because the Yirks would have won.
Of course it's horrible if it's someone you're related to, but it is like Noelle_Winters said: A war is horrible and sometime you have to do things that are horrible. If there would be any solution that makes sure the Controller would never find her, than (of course) I'd say they have to do that and let her live, but there is no solution that makes that sure so I can really understand Marco.

[Darth Zakryn]

I hate the human race, you should know that. I hate it vehemently. I like and even love individuals among the collective, but as a whole, I hate the human race and wonder if it would be for the best if it was wiped out, so you're kind of asking the wrong person.

[Chad32]

I think this conversation is just going to go around in circles. marco is one of my favorite characters, and even if Karen was my sister the only way I'd be upset abou it is if the Animorphs wound up losing anyway. The problem with this is because she was such a small child. Wasn't she like 5 or something? If she was older, it would have been more reasonable not to kill her. I suppose that's ironic. It's so bad because she's so young, yet that's the only sure option because she's so young.

[AniDragon]

If you look at his thought process in book 30, I think you'd get a good idea of what his thought process was in book 19. He gives a pretty good description about how he thinks in these types of situations.

People don't understand the word ruthless. They think it means "mean". It's not about being mean. It's about seeing the bright, clear line that leads from A to B. The line that goes from motive to means. Beginning to end.

It's about seeing that bright, clear line and not caring about anything but the beautiful fact that you can see the solution. Not caring about anything else but the perfection of it.

That's what had happened. I saw the way to take both Vissers down. And that's all that mattered.

But I wasn't going to explain all that. Other people's pity makes you think things you can't think about when you are seeing the line.

So basically, Marco forces himself to become emotionally detached so that he can think rationally. And rationally, killing Karen was the only way out that he saw. It's not pretty, and Marco himself knows it. But it's consistent with his character.

A little later in the same book:

Someday, if we won, if humanity survived, we'd be in history books. Me and Jake and Rachel and Cassie and Tobias and Ax. They'd be household names, like generals from World War II or the Civil War. Patton and Eisenhower, Ulysses Grant and Robert E. Lee.

Kids would study us in school. Bored, probably.

And then the teacher would tell the story of Marco. I'd be a part of history. What I was about to do.

Some kid would laugh. Some kid would say, "Cold, man. That was really cold."

I had to do it, kid. It was a war. It's the whole point, you stupid, smug, smirking little jerk! Don't you get it?

It was the whole point. We hurt the innocent in order to stop the evil.

Innocent Hork-Bajir. Innocent Taxxons. Innocent human-Controllers.

How else to stop the Yeerks? How else to win?

No choice, you punk. We did what we had to do.

"Cold, man. The Marco dude? He was just cold."

[perseusjackson16]

Maybe you should hunt down the Yeerk. Remember that if he had let Karen live, that would pretty much be the end of the war. If she had gotten to any other controller Marco, his dad and pretty much anyone who was ever connected with the Animorphs would die. So it was pretty much the girl vs. the entire human race.

[Darth Zakryn]

There are some things that just CAN'T be justified. Killing children, especially that young, is one of them.

[Chad32]

Sure it can be justified. Just about anything can be justified if the alternative is bad enough. You think a child's life is worth more than seven billion people? I don't. A child that young couldn't be kept away from her family by people programmed against hurting someone, and she couldn't be kept with the Hork-Bajir. Obviously the Anis couldn't keep her with them. We know how that worked out with David.

[Darth Zakryn]

Don't you guys get it? They could have easily grabbed her, taken her someplace abandoned, starved the Yeerk out, and then either sent her to live with the Hork-Bajir or the Chee until a resolution to the war came about! Sure, it's a little risky, but wouldn't you say that's ultimately better than killing a helpless girl?

[Chad32]

You're not even listening to me. You would subject a small child to living in the woods with big monster looking things? The Chee would be reasonable, but I just doubt she'd stay put without someone watching her all the time, and I doubt she's old enough to understand she can't see her family and friends again. The Chee can't force her to stay, so it's still a big risk. It's a lot risky. That's even if they can get her out without anyone tracking them and hope the Yeerks don't get suspicious about it.

[Darth Zakryn]

Yes, I would, because as Arbron said, almost kind of life is better than dying. And Karen seemed pretty reasonable in the book. Hell, there's no reason they can't even send her family into hiding! It would be the humane thing to do. And it may be a huge risk, but it's still better than killing a helpless girl who hadn't done anything wrong and just desperately wanted to live. If that had been YOU, would you still think the same thing?

[Chad32]

I can't say that I really would or not. I haven't been enslaved, and obviously the fate of humanity has never hung in the balance because of what I know. I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree here, because I have run out of things to say. It would have been dark, but it wouldn't have been a MEH for me.



I know this is off topic, but do you think it's funny that the acronym for moral event horizon is the word meh, which means something that isn't a big deal, or along those lines?

"How was the show?"

"Meh."

[RYTX]

The animorphs carry the incredible disadvantage of being a six man army vs an empire, with limited support from the Chee and Hork-Bajir.
The yeerks are looking for Karen.
Even after three days, her rich parents will still be looking.
Taking a bank head into heading: A whole bunch of people will still be looking
Taking either her or a whole family into hiding, with the end of the war no where in sight? They could barely restrain their own parents when the time for that came.
It's sad, but they can't afford to save and support every isolated controller.

It's not like Marco's "thinking grr, I want to kill children" but this is the equvialent of a live gernade being thrown at him.
If anyone would have figured to have her freed and taken care of, it would have been him-but Marco's plans need time and in that situation, just relocating a defective Animorph while the Yeerks patrol the woods, and an angry leopard is in waiting, and finding out your enemy and a witness knows a secert you can't have any witnesses knowing, it's totally unreasonalbe to expect him to think of all that when the simpler solution is kill the Yeerk, kill the witness


They are at war.
They did, and tried a lot of things that were sad, and arguably wrong. But they had to look for the best of immediate situations to perserve their efforts, not the fate of unfornuate individuals caught in the cross fire.

Everyone has to set aside personal feelings at one time or another. This was just one of those

[Darth Zakryn]

Killing children is one of the ultimate evils, and should be avoided at all costs. Hell, maybe if the Yeerks were looking for Karen, it could distract them, like Zone 91 and the like. I'm sorry, but Marco and the others didn't want to even try, and killing of that cold-blooded and ruthless nature should only be undertaken unless absolutely necessary. Like I said, Karen seemed like a reasonable girl, and after her time infested, I'm really sure she would've understood that she couldn't go out. The Chee have an underground park, food, toilet, bath, everything someone needs. And hell, if she got lonely, they could even take her to see her father under a hologram! She was shown to be smart, and like I said, reasonable, so I'm sure she wouldn't burst out. Cassie was the only one who understood this, in her own clumsy, moralistic way, but at least she got it! What if that had been YOUR children, hm?

[Canicula]

Like I said, Karen seemed like a reasonable girl, and after her time infested, I'm really sure she would've understood that she couldn't go out. The Chee have an underground park, food, toilet, bath, everything someone needs. And hell, if she got lonely, they could even take her to see her father under a hologram! She was shown to be smart, and like I said, reasonable

She may be reasonable fpr her age, but she was only a little girl. You have to think about that fact. A little girl left alone with an android race? Even if she was reasonable for her age that isn't anything a little girl can stand for a long time. If they would know that the war would be over in a foreseeable future okay. She could stay with them for a short time maybe without trying to escape. But for year? No little girl, how reasonable it might be, could stand this situation for a few years.
And the Hork Bajir Valley isn't really an option.
There would always be a risk that she would escape and the yirks would get her an re-infest her. Than they would know about the animorphs, they could find them and that's it...war's over.
Would you really consider that the live of one person is worth more than the live of 7 billion persons?

[RYTX]

Weather or not it's my child, or me even, I'm not going to say "Animorphs it's cool, let's go get a drink", but niether will it be "you deliberately wronged me, I'll murder you!"
Understanding action and sacrifice doesn't have to sway you to either extreme. Be sad at the loss. But nothing you do can undo it.

It's a war. People die. Soilders die, innocents die.
This series is practically written to emphasis collateral damage as one of the ultimate horrors of war.
If you can't accept that it seems your either saying 1)if fighting an aggressor may inflict collateral damage you can't fight or 2) You can if their is such damage and you are entitled to revenge: but that's a cycle that never ends-and thus is pointless

As for reasonable for her age: Reasonable has little to do with what people do under prolonged, high stress situations- seperating a child from her entire life, it's unreasonable to expect that to be a stable solution, and like I said, the Animorphs don't have the power to run around and deal with any more unstable situations then they already have