Marco killing Karen

[Darth Zakryn]

Ok, I know he didn't kill Karen, but he was going to if Cassie hadn't stopped him. Let's discuss it. This was the moment that ruined Marco for me forever. She's a child, a little girl, and who decides that death is better than being a slave? With adults, it might be more understandable, but she's still a child. Killing children is wrong, especially one that's helpless like Karen. She was about to die for something she had no control over, and it would have been the first human death on their hands. If Marco had gone through with it, it would have been his own Moral Event Horizon. People forget he was going to kill Karen because she lived, but there's no mistake; she WOULD have been dead if it wasn't for Cassie. And there was the fact that he could tried to starve the Yeerk out of her, anything so long as he didn't try to kill her. In my opinion, that should have been saved as a last resort, yet he seemed too eager to try to do it, and couldn't understand afterwards why Cassie wouldn't let him go through with it.

Well, thoughts?

[Chad32]

It was hard and cold, but frankly she should have died soon after they left her to her own devices. The Yeerks normally operate like that, if they weren't going to reinfest her. I suppose there's a chance they might have been able to get Karen out of the wood, but where would they take her? She wouldn't want to live with the Hork-Bajir. That would be nightmarish, most likely. Erek's place? Maybe, but aside from marco taking his dad there they seemed to be against it.

Plus there's the whole free or dead thing. That's what that phrase means. Why would being a child slave be any better than an adult?

It's not a pretty thought, but he was thinking of the big picture.

[Noelle]

I think the whole Karen situation in the book was one of the most nightmarish situations in the series, along with the David situation because there was, realistically, NO good solution.  It was either do something wrong or do something wrong. 

I personally believe Karen being fine and dandy after she was released wasn't really realistic given how the Yeerks operate.  (But hey, its cassie, she's magically lucky, lol.)  Killing a child is wrong, but I agree with Marco's reasoning, they had no other safe choice.  If she ever got infested again, they were screwed, and they were the only thing saving earth.  Its one life vs. 6 billion.
I also don't think hiding her was a realistic option.  She was a little kid, she probably would have tried to escape to mom and dad.   

I give Marco kudos for having the balls to think about the human race...its definitely something I wouldn't have been able to do.  And while I think KA copped out with Cassies magical pixie dust of morality, I give kudos to her for portraying morality as it is in the real world: gray and gray, not black and white.

Ironically, Cassie was my second favorite character until this book.  She came off as extremely selfish and holier-than-thou to me.  Its like the others were willing to sacrifice their lives, sanity, and souls to save the human race.  All Cassie ever cared about was forcing her morality on others and making sure her mental world was filled with unicorns and happy. 



edit: I have no idea why that weird smiley was in there...lol.

[Canicula]

I absolutely agree with Noelle_Winters. What Marco wanted to do was really hard, killing a child is one of the worst things you can do, but what choices did they have? If Aftran would have gone back to the Yirks without joining the peace movement they would be dead. And hiding her? How would you hide a little girl? The only options would be the Chees or the Hork Bajir valley. The Chees couldn't hold her if she wants to run away and leaving a little girl with the Hork Bajirs? Well, I don't think you can leave her alone with them, how can they watch out for her?
Like I said, killing a little child is one of the worst things someone can do, but they wanted to save the hole world, they could not do anything that might give them away. There was to much that depended on the animorphs. And in a war sometimes you have to make sacrifices, like Tom said: Wars aren't won with clean hands. As sad as it is, it's true.
There would have been no good choice if Aftran didn't join the peace movement.

[AniDragon]

I don't think that he didn't understand why Cassie was conflicted... But yes, Marco was a ruthless character, and it was a ruthless decision that he felt had to be made. Karen being left alive compromised their security, and starving Aftran wasn't really an option. Like Chad said, what would they do afterwards? There were controllers looking for her, they would have noticed a significant difference in uninfested Karen (not to mention knowing that Aftran would have starved by then), prompting them to reinfest her, and reveal what she knew about Cassie.

They potentially could have tried to keep Karen alive. They had the option, I guess, of bringing her to the Hork-Bajir valley, or more likely the Chee park, where she would have had to remain for the rest of the war, unable to even contact her parents to tell them she's alive due to the security risks.

And yeah, it would have been life, and would have been more freedom than being infested with a Yeerk. But it's an option that might not have crossed Marco's mind during the high-stress situation.

[RYTX]

And yeah, it would have been life, and would have been more freedom than being infested with a Yeerk. But it's an option that might not have crossed Marco's mind during the high-stress situation.

It's not an option that's crossed my mind as an observer of the event multiple times with more than a decade to contemplate it

[Noelle]

Even if they managed to starve the yeerk out of her, it would have been almost impossible to contain her.  She wouldn't have been able to stay in the Chee park, she was a little kid and she would have wanted to go home.  They wouldn't have been able to stop her.  And I don't know how a little kid could survive with the Hork'Bajir, they wouldn't know how to care for her, and she'd run away.  The Animorphs would have to spend a ton of time taking care of her, and she'd probably die anyway.  What would they do if she got sick or hurt?  They couldn't take her to the hospital, Cassie's expertise and supplies would only get her so far.


For that matter, I kind of consider Karen being okay sort of a plot hole.  If she were just some joe-shmoe no-one that happened to be a warm body, that would make sense.  The yeerk peace movement could have gotten the yeerk from her, told her to be quiet, then carried Aftran back to the Yeerk pool, or carried Aftran in a willing host while the a Yeerk waited back at home.


But Karen was infested for a reason.  She was watching someone, she was supposed to spy on someone, her father.  The Yeerks would have noticed that lack of information.  (Was that why Aftran was put on the spot in 29?  I don't remember.)  Either way, Karen was a dead girl walking, at least Marco would have merciful about killing her instead of her either going through being infested again (and giving away the animorphs) or her being assassinated by the Yeerks (which I don't think they would have done.)

Heck, they didn't even need to do the blood bank thing, all they had to do was reinfest Karen.



Honestly, when I first read it, it occurred to me that Karen was re-infested by another Yeerk of the peace movement, and she just lied and told Cassie she was free.  It could close the plot hole.

[AniDragon]

I like to think that Karen "played along" when she was around other controllers for a while, and then found a way to convince her parents to move away.

[Darth Zakryn]

I still think killing Karen would have made Marco irredeemable, and that he would have and should have been tried for murder after the war was over, especially by the distraught father. If he wants to kill her to preserve the human race, fine, but he really shouldn't get away with it if he had. I would have done the same thing Cassie did. It's perhaps the darkest thing he wanted to do and why I hated his happy fairy-tale ending after the war so much, which shows what a jerkass he is along with Cassie, the only other survivor. Then again, he possibly got blown up in the end, so it may be a fair trade-off. How many of us here have younger sisters or younger female family members and thought killing Karen would have been the same? How many of us would have thought, "Go ahead, kill my cousin/sister because it's justified?" I always thought of my favorite cousin, who I saw as a younger sister in everything but name.

[perseusjackson16]

I dunno about ruining Marco. He seems to me like the only person capable of thinkin clearly (other than when his mom's involved). He and the animorphs always said rather be dead than to be a controller, and not only because it would give away their identities. Maybe he just didn't want to condemn a child to a life of slavery.

[Noelle]

That seems kind of backwards.  "Thanks for saving the human race.  We're gonna jail you now for doing it."     I wouldn't bite the hand that saved the human race.

If it was my sister, of course I'd be angry, but I'd be more angry at the Yeerks for making it necessary (and being crass enough to infest a child).  Keep in mind, the only thing different between Karen and everyone other controller (including Taxxon's and Hork'Bajir) is age, and age is nothing but a number in this case.  Everyone that became a controller was a sister or mother or the child of someone. If they vowed to never kill an innocent in the war the war would have been over before it even began.

War's an ugly thing.  People have to do bad things in them.  Marco had the balls to do it, Cassie didn't.  *shrug*  Morality is never black and white, and you can't treat it like it is.

And keep in mind, at the end of the book ALL of the Animorphs were willing to kill Karen, except I think Tobias.

[Darth Zakryn]

Yeah, but I still would have sued had it been MY younger cousin, and I think my whole family would have. Like Visser One said, humans need things to blame on, and Marco would have been the one to take the blame, even if the Yeerks were the ones to force their hand. It was revealed in that book that she didn't want to die, and if he had killed her, no matter how justified it was, it would have been murder. The more interesting question is if, had Marco killed her, would he have been tried if the girl's father pressed charges after the war? Or would the Animorphs not have revealed it at all?

[Noelle]

I think if the father tried the case would have been thrown out of the court.  And the court would have been right to, Marco had no choice.  Nothing good comes from suing the wrong people.

[Darth Zakryn]

All I can say is if it had been my cousin and he didn't get put in jail, I would have hunted him down and killed him myself. Whether he was justified or not, he would have performed the actual act, no matter how guilty he might feel afterward.

[Darth Zakryn]

I guess.... But I think most people would see suing Marco as soothing the pain. Humans ARE irrational creatures.