Author Topic: The Rules of the Game  (Read 2895 times)

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Offline Blazing Angel

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Re: The Rules of the Game
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2011, 11:44:20 PM »
How the ellemist could really move the andaalites like chess pieces: Move them to a needed point in z space.
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Offline Zero_Messiah

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Re: The Rules of the Game
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2011, 08:00:29 AM »
Okay, so the chess metaphor isn't completely accurate. Rather, it's a chess game where the pieces, assuming you don't choose to move them, will move on their own. If they happen to make a move that you don't want them to make, you could 'correct it'; this would count as your own move. Because you've made a move, the other player could make a move as well.

Even if Crayak did make an anti-matter wave that destroys all life in the universe, he's making one move, and the next move is the Ellimist's. The Ellimist could either bend space, time and so on to undo the wave. That would be his move. Crayak's counter to that would be to undo the Ellimist's counter, and their subsequent uses of the undo feature will rip apart space and time, effectively ending all of them, including Crayak and the Ellimist. It is why Crayak and Ellimist no longer fight physically; they are bound to space and time and the constant manipulation of it by either party will eventually result in complete loss for everyone.

So even if Crayak could do an 'annhiliation wave' it would be a moot point, since both he and the Ellimist know that it will end in a draw, with no winner.

Another rule would possibly be that their 'intereference' cannot harm sentient life directly. This explains why the whale lives despite being beached (an extremely unlikely event) in Book 27, and another possible reason why Crayak can't push the 'annihilate everything' button. They can however, create species, whose destruction of other species would not count towards it. Ultimately, the Ellimist and Crayak are always playing by proxies.

Offline nocoolnametim

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Re: The Rules of the Game
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2011, 08:19:14 AM »
I think a no tickling rule was probably made somewhere along the line.

Offline Zero_Messiah

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Re: The Rules of the Game
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2011, 08:35:26 AM »
That was made after Crayak tried tickling the Ellimist, whose subsequent fit of laughter caused him to fart. This resulted in six of Crayak's worlds being consumed by a fog of gas that has made the planets barren and devoid of all life, forever.

They try not to talk about it much.

Offline nocoolnametim

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Re: The Rules of the Game
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2011, 09:16:07 AM »
That was made after Crayak tried tickling the Ellimist, whose subsequent fit of laughter caused him to fart. This resulted in six of Crayak's worlds being consumed by a fog of gas that has made the planets barren and devoid of all life, forever.

They try not to talk about it much.
yeah the Crayak was surprised cause he was sure (as was I) that the Ellimist farted rainbows and pooped butterflies.

Offline Blazing Angel

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Re: The Rules of the Game
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2011, 09:22:03 AM »
and then the rainbow got all over him and he hid in the corner shivering for a while.
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Offline Darth Zakryn

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Re: The Rules of the Game
« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2011, 09:44:52 PM »
:o o-ok, moving on from this rather disgusting part of the conversation...

A question to get you all thinking: How did the Ellimist and Crayak play by proxies? They cannot directly interface with the physical world and I'm thinking it's beyond even their powers to literally FORCE a creature to choose something against his will.

One more question, just to get the brain juices flowing: What happens if there IS a victor in this millennia-long game of theirs? What happens to the loser? I mean, what DOES happen to him? The way it's described, they're beyond time and space, and therefore unkillable. Can they intentionally kill themselves without bringing utter destruction to the universe?

Just some food for thought. ;)
« Last Edit: April 16, 2011, 09:50:32 PM by Zakryn »

Offline TobiasMasonPark

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Re: The Rules of the Game
« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2011, 09:47:53 PM »
     The loser has to wear a dress in public.
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Offline Blazing Angel

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Re: The Rules of the Game
« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2011, 10:24:04 PM »
the loser has to wear nothing in public
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Offline Darth Zakryn

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Re: The Rules of the Game
« Reply #24 on: April 16, 2011, 10:26:03 PM »

Ok, we're moving RIGHT BACK into the disturbing part of this discussion... does anyone have anything to say about my post?

Offline DinosaurNothlit

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Re: The Rules of the Game
« Reply #25 on: April 16, 2011, 10:27:09 PM »
A question to get you all thinking: How did the Ellimist and Crayak play by proxies? They cannot directly interface with the physical world and I'm thinking it's beyond even their powers to literally FORCE a creature to choose something against his will.

I figure it'd be more like what the Ellimist did to Jara in #13.  "Head voice say, run!  Go that way!"  And later in the same book to Tobias, giving him information about where to go, and maybe subtly guiding his actions from time to time, but never actually forcing him to do anything.

A similar example might actually be how the Ellimist supposedly brought all the Animorphs together when they first met Elfangor.  Sure, he may have manipulated events to bring that specific group of people together (I don't buy that Jake and Rachel were only 'accidentally' included in the Animorphs team, seeing as they were better fit for their particular roles than anybody else on the team), and he may have planted the idea to take the shortcut through the construction site, but he never forced them to act in any way against their will.

Crayak probably works the same way.  In any case, neither Crayak nor the Ellimist would ever need to force their proxies to work against their will; if you can find the right person, and guide them to the right place at the right time (provided you know their personality well enough), you can typically predict fairly well what they will do and use that to your advantage.

One more question, just to get the brain juices flowing: What happens if there IS a victor in this millennia-long game of theirs? What happens to the loser? I mean, what DOES happen to him? The way it's described, they're beyond time and space, and therefore unkillable. Can they intentionally kill themselves without bringing utter destruction to the universe?

Interesting question.  From what I understand, although the Ellimist and Crayak exist beyond time and space, they seem to stay within the boundaries of our galaxy, for whatever reason.  Perhaps their influence is more finite than we think it is, or perhaps occupying multiple galaxies would just put too much strain on their attention spans.  Whatever.  But the point is, perhaps the punishment for losing would be to be kicked out of the galaxy (and maybe that's where Crayak came from!)

It's actually sort of a moot point, though.  Since they can't fight each other directly without destroying our galaxy and thus destroying both of them, the winner would have no way of enforcing whatever penalty is chosen for the loser.

So, the more likely option is that the winner would be awarded a point (or maybe the loser drinks a shot) and they'd just start playing again.

Offline Darth Zakryn

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Re: The Rules of the Game
« Reply #26 on: April 16, 2011, 10:34:33 PM »

An excellent and thought-provoking response to my questions, Tobey. I thank you kindly. I never thought that the Ellimist and Crayak could manipulate people by reading them. That also brings up the question of how powerful they really, what are their limits, etc. I may have to start another thread...

Offline Zero_Messiah

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Re: The Rules of the Game
« Reply #27 on: April 17, 2011, 10:11:02 AM »
Pretty sure the only penalty for losing is losing itself.

Offline Blazing Angel

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Re: The Rules of the Game
« Reply #28 on: April 17, 2011, 10:28:29 AM »
Maybe the reward for winning is one, chosen act of extreme good, or extreme destruction.
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Offline Darth Zakryn

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Re: The Rules of the Game
« Reply #29 on: April 17, 2011, 10:39:39 AM »

Or maybe they accumulate points throughout millennia, and the one who has the most points will have to concede which side is stronger: Life or death? Creation or destruction? Good or bad? Love or hate? Communism or democracy? That sort of thing. I can totally see Crayak mellowing throughout the years as the game goes on, and eventually, while still being stubborn enough not to change, coming to admit that the Ellimist's side wins.