Andalite and Hork-Bajir anatomy

[Dogman15]

First off: Andalites

How does their food (grass and stuff) get from the base of their four hooves/feet into their body? Does the "esophagus" in each leg somehow travel around the bone? Does it curl around the bone or just go straight up the side? Or does it go through the middle of the bone, in the center which is hollow? Do they have a four-chamberd stomach? One for each leg? Ruminant animals like cows and herbivores (look it up on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruminant) have chambered stomachs like this, and Andalites are herbivores, right?

It's been stated that Andalites have two hearts. Obviously, one is in their upper torso, where a human's heart would be. The other heart, I think, is in their lower torso, like a horse's would be. They need two hearts for the extra energy that their large bodies require (running and quick-reflex tail fighting). Obviously, they have a trachea/windpipe running from their nose to their lungs (2), which are larger than a human's lungs. (I suspect that fantasy centaurs have larger lungs, too, but I'm not sure about how many hearts a centaur would have. Sorry, I'm digressing.)

As for their stalk eyes, I'm pretty sure that they have three layers. The very center of the stalk eye's stalk is optical nerve, which is directly referenced at the end of The Andalite Chronicles, going directly to the brain, like any normal optic nerve should. The next layer going out is muscle, to move the eyes around. Last, of course, is the skin layer. But how do the eyeballs themselves actually attach to the stalks?

Last note on Andalites: Their upper torso contains two slightly-larger-than-human lungs, a heart, and maybe a pancreas and other respiratory/endocrine organs. Their lower body contains at least one stomach, possibly divided into four parts or four separate stomachs; one heart, a liver, two kidneys, other horse-like organs, and anything related to the digestive, endocrine, and reproductive systems.

Now, for the Hork-Bajir:

We already know they have two hearts. Since they have only one torso (that's human-shaped like a human's), both hearts must go here. I'm thinking they go behind the lungs, which are also larger than a human's. (They are bigger and taller - 7 to 9 feet, if I remember correctly.)

Of course, their stomachs are larger and designed to digest tree bark. (Are there any Earth animals that eat tree bark? Do beavers count?) Other than that, I can't speculate much. They have all the normal body systems you would expect: digestive, skeletal, muscular, circulatory, respiratory, endocrine, reproductive...

Lastly, Taxxons:

Not much to say here, other than that their skin is pretty thin, and their digestive system is probably primarily one long tube. Wait, what am I saying? Most vertebrate digestive systems are tubes. Taxxons' would have less curves. Do Taxxons have a skeletal system? Bones or a backbone? Are they really just big bags of guts?

Speaking of bones, I've always wanted someone to draw Andalite and Hork-Bajir skeletons. That would be so cool to see. I've seen centaur skeletons before (I think there's a deviantART group dedicated to that!), and everyone's seen human skeletons. The only thing that you'd need to really think about is what the Hork-Bajir skull looks like (where are the ear holes?), holes in the top of the Andalite skull (for you know what), possible bones in the Andalite tail? (seriously, does the Andalite tail have bones, or is it just muscle? Remember - Samilin-Corrath-Gahar chopped off Harelin-Frodlin-Sirinial's tail, and Mertil-Iscar-Elmand's been missing his for a while now), and whether Hork-Bajir blades are made of sharp bone or if they're just really hard and sharp plastic-like flesh.

You know, after some quick research on Wikipedia, I'm pretty sure that Hork-Bajir blades are made of either keratin or chitin. Look 'em up! And welcome to Dogman15's alien biology discussion.

P.S. - This site's "spell check" thing needs a serious overhaul if it's saying words like "human's", "four-chambered", "Andalite" and "Hork-Bajir" are spelled incorectly/not even words.

[NateSean]

First off: Andalites

How does their food (grass and stuff) get from the base of their four hooves/feet into their body?

Well we know that Andalites can close their hooves off. We also know from Ax that they can absorb worms and snails as well. So for my money I would submit that there is some kind of "blender" system in their hooves that crushes food down much the way we have teeth that breaks our food down.

Where we expect veins to be, there me some kind of tube system that carries food up through the hooves, to the stomachs, which I agree may be chambered as you suggested.

It's been stated that Andalites have two hearts.

And because of what I can guess is now referred to as a KASU or the ghost writer, I do distinctly recall Andalites having four hearts early in the series. But alas, what are you gonna do?

Last, of course, is the skin layer. But how do the eyeballs themselves actually attach to the stalks?

I'm sure it's more that they grew there as opposed to being "attached".

Now, for the Hork-Bajir:


Of course, their stomachs are larger and designed to digest tree bark. (Are there any Earth animals that eat tree bark? Do beavers count?)

When food is scarce, some animals will eat light strips of bark to survive. And if you've ever tried Birch Beer, that basically comes from birch tree bark.

Lastly, Taxxons:

 Are they really just big bags of guts?

I think that's what it boils down to. Taxxons seem more closely related to some Earth insects and arachnids. Their skeletal structure basically is their skin and a strong enough impact causes it to breach.

[Phoenix004]

I believe Andalites actually have three hearts, presumably one in the upper torso and two in the lower torso.

My best guess for Hork-Bajir would be that their blades are made of keratin as Dogman suggested. Rhino horns and human fingernails are made of the same substance. However, since the Hork-Bajir were genetically engineered, their blades could be made of almost anything, including an organic element or compound not found on Earth.

Based on their similarity to insects, I would say that Taxxons have an exoskeleton much like Earth insects and arachnids. It must be a relatively thing exoskeleton (Taxxon flesh is easily punctured) to make up for the size of the creature, as I doubt an insect that big would be able to move if it had a dense exoskeleton.

[DinosaurNothlit]

Well, concerning Andalite stalk eyes, I think you're probably mostly right on their anatomy, but they might need rings or small tubes of bone or cartilage to support their own weight (muscles wrapped around an optic nerve without any attachment points probably would not be able to hold even that slight amount of weight upright).

Similarly, I believe that Andalite tails must have some kind of bone structure to support the muscles.  They would have to, to gain the kind of speed and power that they have.  Muscles do not function in a vacuum.  Yes, there are two references to Andalites who lost their tails.  But the first one had his tail chopped off by another Andalite's tail blade, which is already confirmed in other instances to be able to cut through bone (at least, through earth bone, but I'll discuss that more later).  And the second one, well, it's left rather unclear exactly how he lost his tail.  It could have been burned off by his ship's engines as he crashed, or he could have landed wrong and his own tail blade sliced through the base of his tail.  We have no idea.

As far as eating through the legs goes, I think the digestive tract would have to be outside of the bone.  There may be a groove in the bone to guide the tract, so it doesn't slide around, but I think that if Andalite leg bones were completely hollow they would not be able to carry the weight of the Andalite (unless they were made of much stronger stuff than earth animals' bones, which is a possibility I will discuss shortly).

Now, onto the composition of the blades.  Hork-bajir blades may or may not have bony cores, with an outer layer of keratin or chitin or perhaps some alien material we've never heard of.  We have no way to say for sure the exact composition.  All we know is that Andalite blades will slice through Hork-bajir blades, but then, Andalite blades are obviously stronger than earth bone, as well.

This leads me to believe that Andalite tail blades are made of something stronger than bones on earth are.  Earth bone uses a mineral called apatite as the main component for making bone, which has a hardness of 5 on the Mohs scale of hardness.  What if Andalites simply used quartz instead?  It has a fairly simple crystal structure, not too hard to make (in fact there are microscopic organisms that use quartz for their skeletons), and has a hardness of 7.  And yes, for those of you wondering, quartz is normally clear, but microcrystalline quartz (the kind typically used to construct skeletons) is white.

Of course, most organisms build their entire skeleton out of the same material, so why would Andalites stop at just making the tail blade out of quartz?  This causes issues for the idea that one Andalite could cut off another Andalite's tail if Andalites do in fact have bone in their tails.  But, keep in mind that Andalite tail-vertebrae would have to be small, and probably inter-spaced with plenty of cartilage to gain the flexibility that they have, so it would be conceivably possible to cut through the cartilage spaces.

Dogman, this is an awesome topic, and you make a lot of really good observations about the anatomy of alien species.  Which is why I would like to bring up the Howlers here.  How do you suppose their "turn-table" system works?  It would obviously need a way of keeping the digestive and circulatory systems connected without getting them all twisted around, so how do you suppose they do it?

[RYTX]

I'll jump on this topic more over the weekend, but I'd like to shoot down the ruminant idea in Andalites now: ruminants depends on break down of plant material  by bacteria-but a lot of the work has to come for the ruminant itself in form of chewing on the food again and again and again. Andalites not having a mouth aren't going to do much chewing- and somewhere there's a thread where we talked about life style, and I think there are other reasons to be opposed to that.
But again, more later

[FATELUVR95]

Based on their similarity to insects, I would say that Taxxons have an exoskeleton much like Earth insects and arachnids. It must be a relatively thing exoskeleton (Taxxon flesh is easily punctured) to make up for the size of the creature, as I doubt an insect that big would be able to move if it had a dense exoskeleton.

During the late Carboniferous period, insects as big as Taxxons lived, so maybe they should be compared.

[Dogman15]

Dogman, this is an awesome topic, and you make a lot of really good observations about the anatomy of alien species.  Which is why I would like to bring up the Howlers here.  How do you suppose their "turn-table" system works?  It would obviously need a way of keeping the digestive and circulatory systems connected without getting them all twisted around, so how do you suppose they do it?

It has been a long time since I read book 26, and I won't be reading it again for a few weeks, so I'm not that familiar with the "picture" the author "painted" of Howlers. (I use quotes because Howlers have been depicted by both David and Romas in the past.)

Thanks for all of your responses, guys! I'm glad I started a good topic.

[DinosaurNothlit]

Based on their similarity to insects, I would say that Taxxons have an exoskeleton much like Earth insects and arachnids. It must be a relatively thing exoskeleton (Taxxon flesh is easily punctured) to make up for the size of the creature, as I doubt an insect that big would be able to move if it had a dense exoskeleton.

During the late Carboniferous period, insects as big as Taxxons lived, so maybe they should be compared.

The reason that modern insects can't get very big actually has less to do with their exoskeleton, and more to do with the way insects breathe.  Insects do not have diaphragms like vertebrates do, and thus cannot actively draw air into their lungs.  Instead, they have numerous spiracles that they use to breathe, and they must passively allow oxygen to dissipate into their lungs, which is a slower process.  Therefore, they cannot be very large, or they wouldn't be able to get enough oxygen.

It's widely believed that the reason that insects got so large during the Carboniferous was because there was a proliferation of plant life during that period that has not been equaled before or since.  This led to a very oxygen-rich atmosphere, allowing insects, even with their inefficient lungs, to thrive and grow to astonishing size.

Granted, we know nothing of how Taxxon lungs work.  Heck, they might absorb sulfur-dioxide through their skin, for all we know.  But it would be reasonable to assume that Taxxons might have active lungs like those of earth's vertebrates, which would free them of the size limitations of earth's insects.  Especially given that they seem to have much thinner exoskeletons than most insects, which would decrease the strain of carrying the exoskeleton (which is an important point because even during the Carboniferous, I don't think any insects actually made it to Taxxon size, although some got pretty close.  Keep in mind that Taxxons are as big around as a redwood.  I don't think any terrestrial invertebrate has ever gotten that big.)

It has been a long time since I read book 26, and I won't be reading it again for a few weeks, so I'm not that familiar with the "picture" the author "painted" of Howlers. (I use quotes because Howlers have been depicted by both David and Romas in the past.)

Basically, book #26 said that a Howler's upper body can rotate freely in comparison to its lower body (to help it keep its balance during fights).  Yet, Jake describes blood vessels connecting the two halves of the body, which he notices when he morphs.  That might have been a KASU.  But even if you ignore that, is it remotely possible to conceive of a living creature that can freely spin its top half?

[FATELUVR95]

An owl can spin its head a lot.

[DinosaurNothlit]

An owl can spin its head a lot.

True, but an owl could not spin its head more than 360 degrees before having to spin back.  Howlers seem able to do so (at least, to the best of my knowledge that's the case, but I sure don't remember any reference to a Howler having to 'unwind' itself).

It may have a similar mechanism to the Mortron's biological wheels.  Which probably doesn't help the discussion much since nobody knows how those work, either.

[Dogman15]

It may have a similar mechanism to the Mortron's biological wheels.  Which probably doesn't help the discussion much since nobody knows how those work, either.

A bizarre alien species (from a series that had some pretty odd aliens already) with biological wheels and detachable flying heads. The two portions are presumably the same species (i.e. not a symbiosis between two types of creatures) and they can regenerate both sections when injured.

Esplin 9466 kept two, named Jarex and Larex, as pets, after finding them unable to be hosts for Yeerks.

BOOK: The Andalite Chronicles

****
Biological wheels!! No idea if that's possible. Wheels connected to the body would have to "unwind" (like a yo-yo or those toy cars you have to pull back), and I'm not sure how a creature would be able to grow wheels separate from the body (granted Mortrons are launching their faces).

Look up his artwork on deviantART. It's amazing.

[DinosaurNothlit]

Yeah, I've seen his art, and it is amazing.

But, see, he is assuming that Mortron wheels, like an owl's head, must unwind.  And I'm not really convinced that that would be the case (what would be the point of having wheels in the first place, if the use of said wheels is so limited?  Monsterman's depiction even portrayed the Mortrons as having legs with wheel attachments, which further renders the wheels evolutionarily pointless).  Although I don't see much in the way of alternatives.

[wildweathel]

(muscles wrapped around an optic nerve without any attachment points probably would not be able to hold even that slight amount of weight upright).

Muscular hydrostat, no bones needed, like tongues or cephalopod tentacles or, yes, elephant trunks.  No problem with speed and power there.

Earth bone uses a mineral called apatite as the main component for making bone, which has a hardness of 5 on the Mohs scale of hardness.  What if Andalites simply used quartz instead?  It has a fairly simple crystal structure, not too hard to make (in fact there are microscopic organisms that use quartz for their skeletons), and has a hardness of 7.

Ooh, I like this theory.  A bit of a nit to pick, though.  Hardness has very little to do with what cuts what.  I can assure you that soft steel cuts hard steel and liquid water cuts pretty much anything under the right conditions.  A hard material will produce a sharp edge that cuts soft material durably, but is more likely to chip or crack on harder material.  Like the bones of terrestrial animals, Andalite blades would have to be reinforced with protein fibers and might even have varying mineral composition: hard on the edge and softer further back.

Oh, and they've got to have some scary biochemistry to process quartzite; it's the same as dissolving glass.

How do you suppose their "turn-table" system works?

It doesn't, at least, theres no way they could avoid having to unwind at some point.  So either their abilities are overstated, or I'm completely stumped.

[DinosaurNothlit]

Muscular hydrostat, no bones needed, like tongues or cephalopod tentacles or, yes, elephant trunks.  No problem with speed and power there.

Holy crud, elephant trunks never even occurred to me, but you're right.  Life on earth is freaking amazing, isn't it?

Hardness has very little to do with what cuts what.  I can assure you that soft steel cuts hard steel and liquid water cuts pretty much anything under the right conditions.  A hard material will produce a sharp edge that cuts soft material durably, but is more likely to chip or crack on harder material.  Like the bones of terrestrial animals, Andalite blades would have to be reinforced with protein fibers and might even have varying mineral composition: hard on the edge and softer further back.

Admittedly, I don't know much about soft steel and hard steel, but I know that water can cut anything at high speed (that's kind of an important distinction, there).  In general, hardness does actually have quite a bit to do with what cuts what.  I'm sure that if you shot steel at the same speeds that are needed to make water cut stuff, the steel would probably still cut more things than the water would.

But anyway, yeah, the quartz would have to be reinforced within the Andalites' skeletons, I agree.  After all, pure apatite is brittle, too, and our bones would shatter easily if not for the other supporting materials they're made of.

[Noelle]

Based on their similarity to insects, I would say that Taxxons have an exoskeleton much like Earth insects and arachnids. It must be a relatively thing exoskeleton (Taxxon flesh is easily punctured) to make up for the size of the creature, as I doubt an insect that big would be able to move if it had a dense exoskeleton.

During the late Carboniferous period, insects as big as Taxxons lived, so maybe they should be compared.

The reason that modern insects can't get very big actually has less to do with their exoskeleton, and more to do with the way insects breathe.  Insects do not have diaphragms like vertebrates do, and thus cannot actively draw air into their lungs.  Instead, they have numerous spiracles that they use to breathe, and they must passively allow oxygen to dissipate into their lungs, which is a slower process.  Therefore, they cannot be very large, or they wouldn't be able to get enough oxygen.

It's widely believed that the reason that insects got so large during the Carboniferous was because there was a proliferation of plant life during that period that has not been equaled before or since.  This led to a very oxygen-rich atmosphere, allowing insects, even with their inefficient lungs, to thrive and grow to astonishing size.

Granted, we know nothing of how Taxxon lungs work.  Heck, they might absorb sulfur-dioxide through their skin, for all we know.  But it would be reasonable to assume that Taxxons might have active lungs like those of earth's vertebrates, which would free them of the size limitations of earth's insects.  Especially given that they seem to have much thinner exoskeletons than most insects, which would decrease the strain of carrying the exoskeleton (which is an important point because even during the Carboniferous, I don't think any insects actually made it to Taxxon size, although some got pretty close.  Keep in mind that Taxxons are as big around as a redwood.  I don't think any terrestrial invertebrate has ever gotten that big.)

It has been a long time since I read book 26, and I won't be reading it again for a few weeks, so I'm not that familiar with the "picture" the author "painted" of Howlers. (I use quotes because Howlers have been depicted by both David and Romas in the past.)

Basically, book #26 said that a Howler's upper body can rotate freely in comparison to its lower body (to help it keep its balance during fights).  Yet, Jake describes blood vessels connecting the two halves of the body, which he notices when he morphs.  That might have been a KASU.  But even if you ignore that, is it remotely possible to conceive of a living creature that can freely spin its top half?

/shamelessly resurrects dead topic yay!  (Just because I'm glad to know I'm not the only nerd that sits around and thinks about alien biology when I'm trying to not fall asleep in anatomy class.)



For the Howlers,  I could be wrong, but iirc, they were synthetically made, because they were all children.  My guess would be that they are also part machine as well as bio-material.  For the turn-table effect, my guess would be there is some sort of spinal structure directly in the center of the core, and the blood/nerves needed would be run through that.

That would cause a problem where this would, inevitably, cause the nerves themselves to spin, which would mean if they were made of solid material then they would eventually snap from the torsion.  However, if their nerves/blood were contained in solid channels within the other body tissues, then a liquid-material could be used to conduct the electrical impulses needed to create reactions, like mercury or something similar.

Bleh, I wish I could draw, then I could draw to better illustrate my theory.