Author Topic: Group Re-Read: #48 The Return  (Read 4430 times)

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Offline Terenia

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Group Re-Read: #48 The Return
« on: June 20, 2010, 10:36:12 PM »
Summary
David, the "sixth Animorph," is back. When the Animorphs and Ax decided to give another human being the power to morph, it was one their biggest mistakes. David tried to destroy all of them - and almost succeeded. Rachel and the others thought they'd seen the last of him when they trapped David as a nothlit. Leaving him on a deserted island to live out his days as a rat...


Questions

1) One of the biggest problems I, and presumably other fans, have with this book is the fact that a good chunk of the beginning is taken up by dream sequences. In fact, we don't even get to 'reality' until about five/six chapters in. So, with that in mind, what do you think was the purpose behind such lengthy dream sequences? Did they fulfill their purpose?

2) This is the last book narrated by Rachel. What do you think about her characterization here, as opposed to way back in book #2 when we first got inside her head? How do you think her character progressed throughout the series, and do you think it was a realistic portrayal?

3) This book came out just after The Ellimist Chronicles. How does the Crayak portrayed in this book compare to the Crayak portrayed in the Chronicles?

4) What do you think about the version of David that we see presented here? Do you think he is still sane?

5) Bringing back a question from #22: was the decision that the Animorphs made to trap David the right decision? Who, if anyone, should David lay the blame on?

6) What do you think about Crayak's attempted deal with Rachel at this point in the series?

7) Do you think that Rachel killed David, in the end?


My Comments: Despite this book's (numerous) flaws, the last chapter of #48 is one of my favorites in the entire series, which is why I'm actually telling you my opinion for once. This book annihilated Rachel's character, reducing her to a two-sided coin that was being yanked around by rather comic book-like villains. However, the last chapter of this book really speaks to the struggle of the war, and how it has taken a toll on her. It shows that she does have regrets, and her own lonely struggle somewhat parallels David's. I find it incredibly touching and overwhelming, especially knowing what will happen only a few books down the road, that she is still determined to remain 'one of the good guys'.

Next time: #49 The Diversion

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Offline Serraph105

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Re: Group Re-Read: #48 The Return
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2010, 11:33:47 PM »
Summary
David, the "sixth Animorph," is back. When the Animorphs and Ax decided to give another human being the power to morph, it was one their biggest mistakes. David tried to destroy all of them - and almost succeeded. Rachel and the others thought they'd seen the last of him when they trapped David as a nothlit. Leaving him on a deserted island to live out his days as a rat...


Questions

1) One of the biggest problems I, and presumably other fans, have with this book is the fact that a good chunk of the beginning is taken up by dream sequences. In fact, we don't even get to 'reality' until about five/six chapters in. So, with that in mind, what do you think was the purpose behind such lengthy dream sequences? Did they fulfill their purpose?


2) This is the last book narrated by Rachel. What do you think about her characterization here, as opposed to way back in book #2 when we first got inside her head? How do you think her character progressed throughout the series, and do you think it was a realistic portrayal?
I actually think both were very realistic portrayls (book 2 and this one that is) and the progression is clear. She is more than just a girl who is a shop-aholic and she has become more than just a crazy warrior, she now has to make moral decisions that would end up having very real effects on her own mental health and she seemed very keenly aware of that fact. She is as tainted by war at this point (or at least by the end of this book) as one could possibly become.
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3) This book came out just after The Ellimist Chronicles. How does the Crayak portrayed in this book compare to the Crayak portrayed in the Chronicles?
Honestly it was a fairly large progession from the Chronicles. As seen in 26 (yeah I read it recently check my recent thread I suppose) he is seen playing the slow patient game that the Ellimist is known for, but he is clearly doing it through his own aggressive means. In the Chronicles however he is seen playing with the Ellimist in full force by destroying as many planets as possible. It's a progression, but then again we have seen this progression in other books before it. In fact he may have been getting overly hasty in this book because he was simply tired of continually dealing with this small force of warriors. So actually maybe there was progression in each book he was in and it lead up beautifully towards this book.
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4) What do you think about the version of David that we see presented here? Do you think he is still sane?
Clearly he has lost it and for good reason. His parents were infested, he was trapped for what he thought was all eternity (or at least until death), and he couldn't really pin the blame on anybody but himself. In fact the only real question is why the Crayak would rely on him to break Rachel (despite the fact it may have worked).
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5) Bringing back a question from #22: was the decision that the Animorphs made to trap David the right decision? Who, if anyone, should David lay the blame on?
Sorry but he's only got himself for this one. Sure others did it too him (Rachel in particular perhaps) but it wouldn't have happened if he handled leaving the Animorphs in a different manner then the whole rat forever thing wouldn't have happened.
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6) What do you think about Crayak's attempted deal with Rachel at this point in the series?


7) Do you think that Rachel killed David, in the end?
I have no idea and that's really the point which is to make up your own mind, but I think since the fact that she wasn't completely insane in later books it's safe to say she didn't.
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My Comments: Despite this book's (numerous) flaws, the last chapter of #48 is one of my favorites in the entire series, which is why I'm actually telling you my opinion for once. This book annihilated Rachel's character, reducing her to a two-sided coin that was being yanked around by rather comic book-like villains. However, the last chapter of this book really speaks to the struggle of the war, and how it has taken a toll on her. It shows that she does have regrets, and her own lonely struggle somewhat parallels David's. I find it incredibly touching and overwhelming, especially knowing what will happen only a few books down the road, that she is still determined to remain 'one of the good guys'.

Next time: #49 The Diversion
« Last Edit: June 20, 2010, 11:37:34 PM by Terenia [Teach] »

Offline anijen21

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Re: Group Re-Read: #48 The Return
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2010, 11:41:32 PM »
1) One of the biggest problems I, and presumably other fans, have with this book is the fact that a good chunk of the beginning is taken up by dream sequences. In fact, we don't even get to 'reality' until about five/six chapters in. So, with that in mind, what do you think was the purpose behind such lengthy dream sequences? Did they fulfill their purpose?
to be totally honest, I'm still not totally convinced the whole thing wasn't a dream. I mean, it's kind of hard to deny people who weren't involved referring to it in later books, but we all know the series self-contradicts more than a slippery witness in a murder trial with tourette's, so hear me out:

In book #22, Rachel explicitly states that they never heard from David again. If we get to choose our "truth" in this series, I'm picking that.

So everything up to the first barn scene is supposed to be a dream, and then it's reality, right? I argue that EVERYTHING is a dream. Rachel sees the Crayak iconography during her waking hours--I think like a red blinking radio tower--boom, just a seed in her subconscious waiting to explode into a flower of acid-trippiness. A sea of rats commanded by David? Rachel's subconscious' way of physicalizing her anxiety about being a traitor to her own good nature, the Animorphs. Crayak's whole Mephistophanes thing was just a method for Rachel's subconscious to deal with its own descent into madness/bloodthirst, using elements from her reality that she'd dealt with before. At the very least, this explains away all the weird/retarded inconsistencies, like why Visser Three never brings this episode up again or tries to use it to his own advantage. And the fact that we don't actually find out what Rachel did in the end--she woke up before she could choose.

2) This is the last book narrated by Rachel. What do you think about her characterization here, as opposed to way back in book #2 when we first got inside her head? How do you think her character progressed throughout the series, and do you think it was a realistic portrayal?
no

[/quote
3) This book came out just after The Ellimist Chronicles. How does the Crayak portrayed in this book compare to the Crayak portrayed in the Chronicles?
Pretty similar, idk. I don't like Crayak's portrayal near the end of the series, I much preferred him shrouded and mysterious.

4) What do you think about the version of David that we see presented here? Do you think he is still sane?
ugh, both versions of David we got seemed tragically one-dimensional. I like that we get a little bit of his desperation and hopelessness here, because that never really came across in the original trilogy. I think David is kind of a tragic figure, but he was always pigeon-holed as an easy villain.

5) Bringing back a question from #22: was the decision that the Animorphs made to trap David the right decision? Who, if anyone, should David lay the blame on?
No, they should have killed him; Cassie.

6) What do you think about Crayak's attempted deal with Rachel at this point in the series?
It made no sense in the context of the arc, which is why it was a dream.

7) Do you think that Rachel killed David, in the end?
I think she was going to, then woke up before she could. :)
I go off topic on purpose.

Offline Chad32

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Re: Group Re-Read: #48 The Return
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2010, 06:57:05 AM »
This book is an example of a poorly done Rachel, but I really liked that she said no to Crayak. Yes she played around with her powers, which is to be expected by a thrill-seeking rachel who's gone through some recent mind-screwing. But in the end she told Crayak to shove off, without any help from anyone. This is why I believe she could have coped after the war. that and one of her last thoughts before death.

I never believed forcing david to become a nothlit was a good idea, and this proves that he found no happiness in his new life. What's more tragic is that he doesn't even know who came up with the plan in the first place. He goes after Rachel because she was the meanest. He spares Cassie because she was the nicest. The funny thing is that Cassie came up with the idea, and Rachel was one of the two people most bothered by it!

David doesn't just have himself to blame. The Anis dealt with him poorly, though in their defense they did have an extremely important mission to deal with themselves. However sticking him in the barn instead iof letting him stay with Erek, then getting mad because he snuck into a hotel, is not good.

I knew that this would happen, where Crayak would tempt Rachel with power. They built up to it. I think it was kind of handled poorly, because it doesn't fit with the final arc. One thing I wonder is if they were going to kill Rachel off, and were trying to set her up as someone who couldn't cope after the war, why didn't they have her say yes to Crayak? Then the Anis could fight her, and have to kill her because she's brainwashed and crazy, and her death would make more sense.

They also could have done a lot more with David's return. They ruined that too.

As for the dreams, it's all about trying to screw with rachel's head, and we're being taken along for the ride because we don't know what's real and what isn't either.


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Offline A ghost you know

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Re: Group Re-Read: #48 The Return
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2010, 06:48:30 PM »
Quote from: Chad28
I knew that this would happen, where Crayak would tempt Rachel with power. They built up to it. I think it was kind of handled poorly, because it doesn't fit with the final arc. One thing I wonder is if they were going to kill Rachel off, and were trying to set her up as someone who couldn't cope after the war, why didn't they have her say yes to Crayak? Then the Anis could fight her, and have to kill her because she's brainwashed and crazy, and her death would make more sense.
Her death would make more sense, yeah, but it would also ruin the remainder of the series.
Rachel was, in many ways, the heart & spirit of the Animorphs. She was usually the one leading the charge; every mission began with her "let's do it!"
Turning her against the rest of the Animorphs would cause them irreparable psychological damage from not just losing the heart of the team, but seeing her turned against them. Nothing hurts quite like seeing a good friend turn against you, and Rachel was more than just a friend.
It would also make the Animorphs question their strength. Rachel was arguably the strongest of the Animorphs; if she fell to Crayak, what would happen to them?
Finally, it would alienate readers. Many readers identify strongly with Rachel, and they would be ticked off (and arguably so) to see her switch sides. That's maybe not as important as my earlier comments, but it's still important, IMHO.

Just my 2¢.  :2cents:
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Offline Chad32

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Re: Group Re-Read: #48 The Return
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2010, 08:18:14 PM »
Well, it was just a thought. At least then there wouldn't be conflicting messages. she's strong enough to resist Crayak, and one of her last thoughts were "I could go shopping", but somehow she still couldn't cope without the war?


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Offline JohnBlaze

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Re: Group Re-Read: #48 The Return
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2010, 11:25:16 PM »
the progression was drastic, but well done as far as showing innocence lost thru a sudden war at a young age.

One question that I think I can definately answer is whether or not she killed David....she did. The reason I sound so sure about is due to Cassies last narration in The Ultimate, when she said "Rachel never told me if she did or didn't" more than likely, when ppl don't answer, they did the worst, but I may be wrong. However, Rachel has gotten more bloodthirsty and aggressive throughout the series, I would think that she killed her nemesis....once and for all.
If I was an Animorph, we would've won in two weeks...just sayin'

Offline anijen21

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Re: Group Re-Read: #48 The Return
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2010, 01:21:12 AM »
the kill was more about mercy than bloodthirst or aggressiveness though. It was more a reprehensible obligation than an indication of how *far she'd fallen*, like the kid having to shoot Old Yeller at the end of the book.

Oh, spoiler alert
I go off topic on purpose.

Offline Chad32

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Re: Group Re-Read: #48 The Return
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2010, 06:36:16 AM »
 :o...Old Yeller dies... :'(

Nah, I've seen that movie. Classic. *Filed under "you should know this already."*

But yeah, killing David was more about responsibility and mercy than her being bloodthirsty. I mean you can obviously tell she doesn't enjoy the thought of killing him. It couldn't be more obvious. Of course Cassie wasn't present, so the thought of rachel killing David probably seemed wrong to her still. I think it's Cassie that wonders if Rachel will be able to cope, and possibly Jake.


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Offline dolphin4077

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Re: Group Re-Read: #48 The Return
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2010, 09:52:13 PM »
1. I guess the dreams were an attempt to be Freudian.  I hated the dreams themselves and that they took up so much of the book. 
2. It's hard for me to judge the changes in Rachel's character because there hasn't been a good Rachel narrated book since #27.  Though the last chapter does make a good summation. 
4. This is David's big return, and he's barely in the book. 
5 & 7. don't know
6. This should've been resolved before the final arc.       

Offline JohnBlaze

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Re: Group Re-Read: #48 The Return
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2010, 12:15:54 AM »
I'm sorry, but I think David could have been put into the end of the series too....like a final battle against Visser 1, Tom, and David....but sorry...thats too much of a Hollywood adaptation, lol
If I was an Animorph, we would've won in two weeks...just sayin'

Offline Chad32

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Re: Group Re-Read: #48 The Return
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2010, 07:56:59 AM »
I do believe this book should have either been incorporated into the final arc better, or taken place before it. The final arc is supposed to have started with 45, but seems to lag a bit until it picks up again in 49.


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Offline RYTX

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Re: Group Re-Read: #48 The Return
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2010, 03:32:08 PM »
2)Realistic yes, but I feel whether it was deliberate or not, she's still a different character than at the start. We have the "Rachel-character killer" books, and while I don't think this is one of them, it does seem like she's different, but not due to experience or evolution of character-just different. :-\

Pretty much all the rest) I don't like David's placement here: it was okay, but like has been said, this didn't belong in the final arc, especially as it's Rachel's last book. If it had been earlier, I think I would have been okay with it, but as it was popping David back in as a foolish puppet of Crayak-not evil, greedy and stupid does not equal evil- I disapprove.
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4. This is David's big return, and he's barely in the book.
And I agree with that too

I actually like that Crayak was trying to get Rachel here, and I like how she resisted, that all was good, but again, this is Crayak's last appearance too, and seeing as we just got a semi good look at him in TEC, to never see him again after that a a vital evil plot to snare an Animorph, that's sad imo.

I still maintain that trapping David was the lesser of two evils- it was necessary, and all his own fault- I've made this argument, he was unfortunate yes, but he made everything worse for himself
As for the end, yes T it was beautiful. Frankly idk what she did- I don't believe she killed him. why, i also idk, but I just never felt she did. In response to what was said above about not talking about the worse path taken: which was the worse at this point: From a security stand point keeping him alive has always been stupid, plus the animorphs all agree that trapping him was horrible- whose to say at the point she didn't feel killing was the lesser of two evils. Worse is a matter of perspective, and i don't think we can say who is calling what the greater evil after all they've been through.

An all in all book that was a bit baffling, but had indeed some powerful stuff, but I do feel the timing was wrong, and with all the other stuff muddled about, I resent this book cuz I think of all of them, Rachel should have had a finale that flowed with everything else, something we could use as a definite mark of her character, not a brief revival and leaving us to speculate who the arguably most complex character really is.
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Offline Gafrash

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Re: Group Re-Read: #48 The Return
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2010, 09:26:47 PM »
I feel like I've been saying this after a certain point of the re-reads: This book did no deliver.
And I can only attribute it to Ghostwriters, I am sorry.
Rachel has been one of my favorite characters in the series, for her sense of bravery and action, distinctive from the other protagonists because of her truth-to-self honesty and openness about 'enjoying' doing the 'dirty job'. And it's sad to see a book with THIS much potential (ref. Rachel's psyche, David's return, Cryak's involvement with the 'big scheme') poorly explored. And it's her last proper narrative.

1) One of the biggest problems I, and presumably other fans, have with this book is the fact that a good chunk of the beginning is taken up by dream sequences. In fact, we don't even get to 'reality' until about five/six chapters in. So, with that in mind, what do you think was the purpose behind such lengthy dream sequences? Did they fulfill their purpose?

anijen21 brings up a good observation. I never looked at it as the WHOLE story being a dream per si, and maybe that's the problem. Perhaps the whole thing COULD have been a dream, given the plot we were given in #The Familiar, and the somewhat lack of creativity that was hitting this stage of the series, it wouldn't surprise me.


2) This is the last book narrated by Rachel. What do you think about her characterization here, as opposed to way back in book #2 when we first got inside her head? How do you think her character progressed throughout the series, and do you think it was a realistic portrayal?

Though I think she gets much worse, psychologically, in the later books, Rachel, here, seems less naive, less lively and less humorous and more determined, bold and headstrong at this stage of the war. What many of us missed though, is that found in a situation on her own (eventhough Cassie was there (Urrrgh! More on that later) she's strategizing here more which is consistent with the events found in #The Separation (ref. to the character being split in two halves, short-term and long-term mental capacities). She deduces some sort of higher intervention to David's deeds, to such a point where The Drode and Cryak HAVE to show themselves.
And her 'headstrong' can't be better depicted than the scene where she forces the morphing process on pure will alone.
Though we've seen something similar before (ref. #3), I always imagined morphing as a 2-3 minute process. Yet, under the stress here, Rachel did it under 10 secs or so. Even when the morphing energy seemed to cease, she got through it. There’s probably a KASU/ghostwriter hole in there somewhere, but I am willing to overlook it, for it shows Rachel’s willpower as the greatness that it is. Again we are shown how Rachel has tremendous will power, the will to win, to beat the enemy.


My Comments: Despite this book's (numerous) flaws, the last chapter of #48 is one of my favorites in the entire series, which is why I'm actually telling you my opinion for once. This book annihilated Rachel's character, reducing her to a two-sided coin that was being yanked around by rather comic book-like villains. However, the last chapter of this book really speaks to the struggle of the war, and how it has taken a toll on her. It shows that she does have regrets, and her own lonely struggle somewhat parallels David's. I find it incredibly touching and overwhelming, especially knowing what will happen only a few books down the road, that she is still determined to remain 'one of the good guys'.
TOTALLY agree with you here, Terenia. Despite the low execution, the book does offer some sort of character resolution, and I am quite fine with this being Rachel's 'final' book too. Though I think the character was portrayed more 'two-sidedly' in #The Separation, I do see what you mean about it here, too. It is the final chapters in this story that carry this book for me also, successfully encapsulating all of Rachel at this stage in the series, at last.


3) This book came out just after The Ellimist Chronicles. How does the Crayak portrayed in this book compare to the Crayak portrayed in the Chronicles?
6) What do you think about Crayak's attempted deal with Rachel at this point in the series?

I didn't really get a sense of 'total evil' coming from the Cryak portrayed here. Not like the one portrayed in the Ellimist Chronicles. It just seemed like screwing with Rachel's mind to ultimately get to Jake wasn't THAT big in comparison to what the Ellimist's done to the bigger game the two of them have. In the end, I think, he ends up virtually looking like a 'wally' really, when Rachel rejects his offer. We could see what The Cryak was trying to do here. He wanted to make Jake pay the same price by turning one of his own against him?! But I think the story could have been much more effective overall done with just David and the Drode antagonising and Cryak's mysterious evil being preserved. With Cryak there, the 'rules' of intervention just seemed to be non-existent...


4) What do you think about the version of David that we see presented here? Do you think he is still sane?

David’s dream of taking the over the world with rats, may have been Cryak-fed, but it wasn’t all bogus. In a world where slugs can enter people’s brains and take over the world, I can see rats being led as weapons to take over the world through Cryak’s aid, faux shizzle.
What is not fully clear to me, is how David/rat survived the island ordeal. It is truly a mystery just HOW a small mammal like a rat can survive a jumble of rocks that passes for an island in the middle of the sea. The animal, coupled with the human mind, can be considered resourceful, but the morph itself is full of survivor-flee instincts. The rat is a survivor given the circumstances. For a kid like David to have survived, for almost two years, has got to be attributed to some sort of ‘high intervention’ (ref.Cryak).

There’s also the unaddressed issue of David’s parents. I find it funny how David didn’t mention any sort of a deal about Cryak having bargained with him to see his parents. I felt this side could have been explored.

Given what they’ve been through individually since #The Solution, Rachel and David are very different now than before. I would have liked to have seen this different Rachel and different David clashing in a more interesting and surprising way. During The David Trilogy, it wasn’t until #The Solution that this clash between the two occurred. David had it in for Rachel ever since she justifiably threatened him. It became a personal thing, and that was only played with briefly here. It’s another reason I don’t think this book delivers.


5) Bringing back a question from #22: was the decision that the Animorphs made to trap David the right decision? Who, if anyone, should David lay the blame on?

I don't think it's a question of merely picking one person to blame on, because in the end, they were a group and they were at war. To me, their decision was about doing the 'less worse'. Make no mistake, the Animorphs were at war, and David was a dangerous factor, a resourceful enemy, purely based on what he knew and was. Worse, he showed no signs of changing for better.
So, yes, it was Cassie's idea, but in the end it would have been unanimous that David needed to go.
Not bringing themselves to plain 'kill' him, they trap him and leave him out of harms way, neglected, to the mercy of Nature. Supposedly leaving David's final fate out of their hands.
David only focused on Rachel because she was the only one who openly rivaled him.


7) Do you think that Rachel killed David, in the end?

I like to think that she didn't. Rachel didn't give in to her bloodthirsty tendencies whilst Cryak had supplied her with the perfect conditions against the Visser, so I don't think we should totally scratch the possibility here.
It used to bug me that KA chose to leave this open, though. As if she wanted us to be having this precise discussion, precisely here.
If she did kill, I, too, think Rachel would have done entirely out of mercy. No questions, there. BOTH David and Rachel were at the end of their 'mental' rope, no question here either.





Post Merged: June 23, 2010, 09:27:38 PM

Now, I wanted to express my opinions on Cassie, in this story.
Much as I love character, this is the one book I could have decked her lights out. I am talking about the scene where Rachel’s giving her best in achieving victory BY HERSELF (against no-one-less-than-the-mighty-Cryak of all antagonists!!!), given Cryak’s playing her every string, a gargantuan job for Rachel really, but in the end she manages it, and, friggin, instead of supporting her ‘best friend’s decisions, Cassie tries to keep her hands clean with the David-loose-end situation, by saying “I don’t think it can be done a 2nd-time.”. This line really ticked me off. Jeez, WHAT WAS SHE TRYING TO DO THERE?! Certainly not support her ‘best-friend’ whom had just saved her, that’s for sure. The job needed to be done. If you’re not going to help, get out of the way!
Still, I liked the way Rachel replied. It showed a resolution in Rachel’s character to me. At that point she demonstrated that she truly realized her role in the Animorphs, for good or for worse, where she stood amongst her friends.
Observation: Tobias. No. Where. In. Sight.


PS: This was also the beginning of those ridiculously inserted bold highlighted texts into Rachel’s narration. Supposedly to convey how messed up her psyche was.
It was interesting at first, but then it felt like the ghostwriter was just bolding repetitive quotes for the sake of bolding them. Some he even forgot to bold, if I recall correctly.
Why do you guys think we saw this treatment in this book?
« Last Edit: June 24, 2010, 04:06:36 AM by Gafrash »

Offline Chad32

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Re: Group Re-Read: #48 The Return
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2010, 09:54:50 PM »
I don't remember the bolding lines. I read this book recently, but I don't know what you mean.


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