Group Re-Read: #43 The Test

[Terenia]

Summary
Tobias, the other Animorphs, and Ax have seen things so bizarre that no sane person would believe their story. No one would believe that aliens have taken over the Earth, and are in the process of infesting as many humans as possible. No one could believe the battles and missions and losses these six kids have had to deal with. And it's not over yet. Tobias has been captured by the same human-Controller that nearly tortured him to death once before. She claims that now she's a part of the Yeerk peace movement. That she just needs a favor. Tobias isn't sure what to believe, but he knows that if the Animorphs and Ax don't find him soon, what he believes won't matter anymore...

Questions
1) Do you think it was a good move to have a "Taylor returns" book? Do you think the issue was handled well? Do you think Tobias' mental state of being post-torture is realistic?

2) It is exceedingly rare that an Animorph sits out a mission, but this is one case where Cassie draws the line. What do you think about her decision? Logical or necessary plot point? In character? Out of character? Discuss.

3) This is the second time we have experienced someone morphing Taxxon, the first time being in The Andalite Chronicles. What do you think about the portrayal of the morph in general?

4) Kind of piggy-backing on the previous question, I have always wondered about the level of sentience with Taxxons? Are they truly sentient beings, or is such a status impossible given their ravenous hunger?

5) When Cassie pleads with Jake not to go through with trying to blow up the Yeerk Pool, she makes the argument that Tom might be in the pool, to which he responds that it was a necessary loss. Do you think he really meant that? If he's willing to sacrifice Tom, what does that say about his continued motivations in this war?

6) Anything else?

Next time: #44 The Unexpected

[RYTX]

hmmm
1) It was a more fitting return than some characters we've seen *cough* david *cough*.  I pride myself on getting into the story, but in for some reason it never really strikes me that Tobias was tortured. idk why, but it doesn't so I thought his reactions with her where just fine
2) It makes perfect sense to me. In fact I'm surprised it doesn't happen a lot more. Because of that I can't help but think that it's actually out of character, even though it's a perfect character move for her.
3-4) Gross morph no doubt. I don't like the portrayal for some reason. It makes me like that Taxxons more, which I'm fine with, but somehow it doesn't seem to do them justice. I was fine not getting a Taxxon Chronicles, yet still, this is the one race where our view of their own is never really through their own eyes.
For the sentience thing, I totally accept it. You equate this hunger with fear, a real all consuming fear. Their existince is truly driven: Instinct relents some time, it has to, but when you couple the innate hunger with the irrationality of fear that only rational being can have; the hunger almost makes them sentient.

In my eyes anyway.

[AniDragon]

I'd been looking forward to this book when it first came out, but I find that it fell a bit short to my expectations... Not much, but just a little. That being said, I still liked it.

I also want to say that this book solved an argument between me and a friend of mine. Because the colour of the Taxxons was never stated in the books, we often debated about what colour they were. I was convinced they were green, and she was convinced they were red. When I saw the cover of this book, the first thing I did was call her and tell her "We were both wrong. They're yellow."

However, since they're greenish yellow, I was still closer.

[Chad32]

I always pictured them red too, but apparently they aren't.

[morfowt]

I always pictured them yellow for some reason. like that gross bright yellow color. I also imagined the mouth to be bigger than that...

[dolphin4077]

This is my least favorite Tobias book, so be prepared for rants.

1.  I didn't mind the idea of Taylor returning until I read the book.  Then I wished they never did it.  As for Tobias' mental state, it seemed like the ghost writer could never quite capture it well enough (at least to my satisfaction).  Also, what I really hated was how much of an idiot Tobias was around Taylor, especially compared to how much smarter he was around her during #33.  But then again all the Animorphs, except Cassie of course, all acted like idiots in this book.  I still read this book and go "what the hell just happened."

2. It was in character.  I just really wonder if Cassie could honestly believe the Animorphs could get through the war without touching the Yeerk pool.  

3.  I still get chills thinking about being in Taxxon, so I guess the portrayal was effective.

4.     That's an interesting question.  My psych professor kept telling the class that human beings were different from other animals because humans didn't have instincts.  So my professor would say that the hunger instinct prevents them from being sentient.  Yet Taxxons are considered smarter than Hork-Bajir, and we don't doubt Hork-Bajir are sentient.  But I think the strongest argument for Taxxon sentience is during #33 when Elfangor says that people don't think Taxxons don't fear are fools.  If Elfangor thought Taxxons were sentient that's proof enough for me.

5. I have to thank the rereads for making me pay attention to all the subtle Tom and Jake moments.  It's become obvious Tom is enemy first and brother second.  

[anijen21]

1) Do you think it was a good move to have a "Taylor returns" book? Do you think the issue was handled well? Do you think Tobias' mental state of being post-torture is realistic?

I mean, #33 was probably the darkest book in terms of character exploration, so I think that issue definitely needed some closure, I just really didn't like the way this was handled. Like oh, a Sub-Visser wants to work with us? No way that's going bad, right guys?

2) It is exceedingly rare that an Animorph sits out a mission, but this is one case where Cassie draws the line. What do you think about her decision? Logical or necessary plot point? In character? Out of character? Discuss.

In character and a perfect example of why I hate Cassie. "Oh I'm not doing this, because I'm a whiny brat, but oh I am and actually the fact that I sat out means I get to be the hero/savior! Phew, what would you guys do without me?"

3) This is the second time we have experienced someone morphing Taxxon, the first time being in The Andalite Chronicles. What do you think about the portrayal of the morph in general?

I thought it was handled a lot better in the Andalite Chronicles. The whole thing about Taxxon hunger being derived from anxiety about starving was just too dumb and intellectual for such a visceral race. The way it was portrayed in this book, they had absolutely no control over it, and that's not true.

4) Kind of piggy-backing on the previous question, I have always wondered about the level of sentience with Taxxons? Are they truly sentient beings, or is such a status impossible given their ravenous hunger?

See, that's the thing. I think the Andalite Chronicles proves a little that they are intelligent, and other stuff proves it too--the fact they're used as trackers, the fact that they can swim well, that their delicate hand-eye coordination makes them the computer technicians, more than the Hork-Bajir, WHO HAVE HANDS, even more than Gedds, who are primates. That requires a certain level of intelligence. I like it better that they're intelligent but cursed with this insatiable hunger. I don't like that they're mindless drones guided by unbreachable instinct. Also Taylor says they're only given to lower-ranking Yeerks. Okay, then why does half the Council have Taxxon hosts in Visser?

5) When Cassie pleads with Jake not to go through with trying to blow up the Yeerk Pool, she makes the argument that Tom might be in the pool, to which he responds that it was a necessary loss. Do you think he really meant that? If he's willing to sacrifice Tom, what does that say about his continued motivations in this war?

I kind of like that slowly developed coldness to Jake in the last decade of books, actually. I think it was one of the only things done well.

6) Anything else?

Nah, this book really wasn't worth it. The unschweet thing was sort of cool but totally random and unnecessary, much like this entire book.

[dolphin4077]

Sorry for the double post, having technical issues.

6.  Why wasn't Arbron introduced into the main series during this book?  Not only would this book have been so much better, but it also would've made the final arc less rushed.  Also I feel cheated Arbron not being in a Tobias book.  Once again we were robbed of Tobias' reaction to Elfangor's past.  And I really wanted to know how Tobias and Arbron would relate to each other as nothlits.  

[morfowt]

I think only two members have taxxons, and I guess hosts are something you earn. whatever you're host you're willing to get and enslave, is whatever host you get. that's why visser three has an andalite body even though he's not the highest rank, because he earned it. I guess the council members didn't work hard for any host besides taxxons.

Sorry for the double post, having technical issues.

6.  Why wasn't Arbron introduced into the main series during this book?  Not only would this book have been so much better, but it also would've made the final arc less rushed.  Also I feel cheated Arbron not being in a Tobias book.  Once again we were robbed of Tobias' reaction to Elfangor's past.  And I really wanted to know how Tobias and Arbron would relate to each other as nothlits. 

now that you mention, I very vaguely remember reading somewhere that they were thinking of having arbon be the taxxon they were planning to acquire...

[Chad32]

That would have been an ideal book to eintroduce Arbron, but I never thought they would do t. I never cared for Taxxons, and at that point in the series I was content with blieving they were Always Chaotic Evil.

[dolphin4077]

. 
[/quote]now that you mention, I very vaguely remember reading somewhere that they were thinking of having arbon be the taxxon they were planning to acquire...
[/quote]

That would've have been the right moment.  Arbron would reveal himself and would tell Ax and Tobias about Taylor's double cross.  Then the Animophs would have to decide who's telling the truth...  I don't suppose anyone would want to write a fanfic about that scenario.       

[Terenia]

It's an interesting possibility. I do agree that Arbron's role in the arc seemed rushed. Either he should have been mentioned earlier or not at all, IMO. With the final arc timing is everything, and so often it is just barely wrong....enough to make the readers wince a little, but still accept it, if you know what I mean.

[Vanish]

1. I liked seeing Taylor back in another book, Tobias was still having issues over the torture and it helped to some to degree close a lose end and helped the growth of his character. I think the issue was handled pretty well (as well as they can be in a children's book anyway). I think his post-torture state was pretty realistic, again its a for a kid/pre-teen book so it really couldn't go into too much detail.

2. I disagree with her decision, sometimes you have to do things you don't like even if it will cause you to feel extremely guilty for the rest of her life if it means it might help SAVE YOUR RACE FROM ENSLAVEMENT. I think it was necessary because there would probably be someone exactly like Cassie if it were real life even though her character is so irritating!

3) I like it, that uncontrollable hunger they experience really makes you understand why they go voluntarily to the yeerks if it means a chance to satisfy it.

4) I think they are sentient, in the end the rebel group of Taxxons help the Humans and also helps Elfangor on the Taxxon homeworld, neither were about hunger. Which I think you'd have to be sentient to do.

5) I think he meant it, Jake is a war hardened leader by this point.

6) The book wasn't bad, I was pretty entertained reading it.

[Gafrash]

Hey, now that you guys mentioned it, it does seem like this would have been an ideal plot to insert Arbron in. It would have certainly given the story more substance, giving Abron more of a presence in the series and made his participation feel less rushed, indeed. Though I was pleasantly surprised with the way KA inserted him in the end, I don't see why she couldn't have done his first Earth appearance here.
As it is, this story was otherwise average to me. I kinda knew Taylor would be back since the way things finished off last. Kinda lame how Tobias fell in the clutches of his torturer again.

1) Do you think it was a good move to have a "Taylor returns" book? Do you think the issue was handled well? Do you think Tobias' mental state of being post-torture is realistic?

The summary kinda gave what could have been a perfectly shocking surprise away (Tobias being facing his torturer once more), but I think
A BAD move would have been to have the Taylor-Controller come back AFTER the story in this book.
I remember the narration being a bit lame. That scene in the vet clinic with the Controllers and the Anis trying to get to Tobias was a bit confusing, if I remember correctly.

3) This is the second time we have experienced someone morphing Taxxon, the first time being in The Andalite Chronicles. What do you think about the portrayal of the morph in general?

I thought it was a decent insight on the species. The compound eyes, I always imagined their vision somewhat different in their bodies. And them biting through cement?!?!?! Whoa!
The new thing for me was the whole 'visual direction' guimmick that Ax showed Tobias once he did the morph. I wasn't fully sold on the idea, and had to see it as a plot device to make the story work. But it may explay how a Yeerk is able to perform those tasks without constantly having to feed.
 

4) Kind of piggy-backing on the previous question, I have always wondered about the level of sentience with Taxxons? Are they truly sentient beings, or is such a status impossible given their ravenous hunger?

Nice questions.
To me, sentience is being self-aware beyond its biological instincts. A Taxxon is fully aware of what it's doing during its ravaging feast. And, as Arbron, proves later on, they are aware of what the Yeerks do to them and, once they see another way, they are willing to seize the chance for a change.

 

5) When Cassie pleads with Jake not to go through with trying to blow up the Yeerk Pool, she makes the argument that Tom might be in the pool, to which he responds that it was a necessary loss. Do you think he really meant that? If he's willing to sacrifice Tom, what does that say about his continued motivations in this war?

2) It is exceedingly rare that an Animorph sits out a mission, but this is one case where Cassie draws the line. What do you think about her decision? Logical or necessary plot point? In character? Out of character? Discuss.

The Cassie sub-plot was a bit of a surprise. Think this was the only mission she sat out, really.
I think at this stage, Jake would have meant that. It would have been impossible for the character not to have seen such a scenario coming, give what he's been through. Cassie was trying to delay the inevitable, what they had never until now thought of discussing in the open before, but knew they would eventually have to do: To blow up the enemy base.
I think both characters acted accordingly. Cassie saving the day was kinda a surprise to me. I don't know why people got so annoyed at that one. It was good, people!!!

6) Anything else?

Nah. Just the next book is kinda one of the weakest reads.
Post Merged: March 02, 2010, 10:17:59 PMCan anyone refresh me on the scene where either Ax or Tobias in Taxxon morph chew through concrete...?
The more I think about it now, the more I think this idea, the more it seems messed up. Can a living organism really digest innorganics such as concrete?!

[Cloak]

The more I think about it now, the more I think this idea, the more it seems messed up. Can a living organism really digest innorganics such as concrete?!

Technically, table salt is inorganic, and we digest that just fine. Thought I should point that out.

And I heard a story on television some time ago -- Animal Miracles, I think it was -- where some pig (and I mean that literally, an actual pig) chewed something like concrete into nothing.

I pretty sure there are other examples of animals eating inorganic things like concrete, I cannot think of any right now, but I don't think it's unreasonable to see an alien creature capable of eating through concrete.