Group Re-Read: Megamorphs #4, Back to Before

[Terenia]

Summary
What would you do if you had the opportunity to change your life? Not just where you live or who you hang out with but your past, present and future? Sounds like it might be pretty cool, right? Well, that's what Jake thought. He thought it might be easier if the Animorphs had never existed. If they'd never met Elfangor. If they all had the chance to be normal kids.

Jake gets his wish.
But things aren't quite as simple as they seem. Just because the Animorphs no longer exist doesn't mean the Yeerks no longer exist. Except now Jake, Rachel, Tobias, Cassie and Marco can't morph. They don't even know the Yeerks are out there. And it's not such a wonderful life.

Questions

1) Do you blame Jake for taking the Drode up on his offer to alter the timeline? Do you think it was selfish, or understandable?

2) This book gives us an interesting look at the first few books in the series. While everything is, of course, different, I think that the whole Ax-in-the-ocean thing is pretty reliable. It says that Cassie starts hearing Ax's "cries" for help on day seven, only one week after they would have received the morphing power a la normal timeline. And Ax escapes somewhere between day 24 and day 31. Does this jive with your concept of the first few books, or do you think it's off? Why do you think it changed?

3) Any thoughts about Rachel and Marco as a couple?

4) Keeping in mind that this timeline is distorted thanks to good old Cassie, if it were real do you think it is likely that Tobias would have joined The Sharing and possibly even become a voluntary Controller?

5) What do you think was different about this timeline that pushed Visser Three into open war so quickly - something that never happened in the real timeline?

6) What do you think about learning that the Ellimist essentially "stacked the deck", as Drode puts it?

7) Thoughts about Cassie being an anomaly?

8 ) Anything else?


Next time: #41 The Familiar

[morfowt]

6. well we never know for certain that ellimist did "stack the deck". that's just what drode accused, and 99% of the fans believe what drode said... me being in the remaining 1%

1. selfish? nah. I'm surprised he didn't give up (and it basically was giving up) sooner. I would've quit after my first battle

2. Definitely too early. book 1 lasted 4 days (friday night - monday night), and book 3 had lasted over 4 days, possibly even a week. That's already more than 7 days, not including book 2, and the time between each book. ax basically left on the same day as the original timeline because the yeerks would've attacked the same day, and 24-31 days is believable.
as for why the difference, I guess maybe KA didn't think that much about how long book 1 to book 4 would last?

7. I know what most people have to say about this. i personally don't share that view, but I'm not sure why. I guess I just like fictional characters the way they are. of course there are exceptions, but cassie isn't one of them.

[anijen21]

1) Do you blame Jake for taking the Drode up on his offer to alter the timeline? Do you think it was selfish, or understandable?

No, I actually think they did a really good job setting up exactly why this was the moment he finally cracked. That first chapter was a dark, depressing, KA Applegate breath of fresh air after a quagmire of ghostwriters.

2) This book gives us an interesting look at the first few books in the series. While everything is, of course, different, I think that the whole Ax-in-the-ocean thing is pretty reliable. It says that Cassie starts hearing Ax's "cries" for help on day seven, only one week after they would have received the morphing power a la normal timeline. And Ax escapes somewhere between day 24 and day 31. Does this jive with your concept of the first few books, or do you think it's off? Why do you think it changed?

I think this book actually works really hard not to give you an idea how much time passed between books. I guess what you said was pretty incontrovertible evidence, but even so, Cassie could have been hearing whispers without really knowing what they were as soon as the end of book one. Because that book in itself takes at least three or four days.

Anyway, the thing I was kind of "wut" about was when Rachel and Marco saw Marco's mom, because THAT gave a VERY clear idea how many days it was until #5, but then it turned out that was the first snag in the fabric of the new made-up universe or whatever. I know some of us try to figure out how much time passes in between books but I kind of think we're really not supposed to know. Because, iirc, they drop the "day X" thing after a while, even in this book.

3) Any thoughts about Rachel and Marco as a couple?

ngl I know there are a healthy amount of Rachel/Tobias fans, but Rachel always seemed out of character to me when they were together. I kind of prefer Marco/Rachel, their flirtation at least feels natural.

4) Keeping in mind that this timeline is distorted thanks to good old Cassie, if it were real do you think it is likely that Tobias would have joined The Sharing and possibly even become a voluntary Controller?

The thing that I think makes this the single best Megamorphs book is the fact that Tobias and Ax get a greater proportion of chapters than anyone else, and the "split up the team" tendency the MM books had is actually natural and makes sense here. This is a character-driven book. We get to explore what these people would do if they weren't in a team. It's the single best hypothetical, in terms of storytelling capacity and character development, in the entire series.

5) What do you think was different about this timeline that pushed Visser Three into open war so quickly - something that never happened in the real timeline?

Ax

6) What do you think about learning that the Ellimist essentially "stacked the deck", as Drode puts it?

I think it was the most interesting and thought-provoking deus ex machina in the series.

7) Thoughts about Cassie being an anomaly?

My favorite paragraph in the entire series was the one where she was dead for five seconds.

8 ) Anything else?

Not right now but if I think of anything I'll come back and edit.

ETA'd: ooh I know no one is going to come back and read this, but I did kind of want to gripe a little about one thing--Ax being badass in this book makes sense, since he was an aristh before he ever met the main characters. But the Animorphs themselves got a good three or four books of badass development before they were mowing down Hork-Bajir and Taxxons on a regular basis. I think this book kind of misses that. And, in a sense, it's probably okay, since it would be kind of jarring in the grand scheme of the series to see Jake command his group like a well-trained military unit in the last book and then bumble his way through this book, but at the same time I was kind of like "why aren't they running away" when that whole thing happened in the mall. And Rachel killing one Hork-Bajir with another Hork-Bajir's decapitated head was DISGUSTINGLY AWESOME and also...really sad :/

[morfowt]

oh and after reading book 3 again, tobias very clearly said he's been a nothlit for a few weeks. I'd say 3 weeks since tobias definitely said it had been less than a month.

and book 3 defintely lasted a week, because it started on saturday, and ended on a weekend, most likely saturday.

[Chad32]

1) Do you blame Jake for taking the Drode up on his offer to alter the timeline? Do you think it was selfish, or understandable?

No, I actually think they did a really good job setting up exactly why this was the moment he finally cracked. That first chapter was a dark, depressing, KA Applegate breath of fresh air after a quagmire of ghostwriters.

2) This book gives us an interesting look at the first few books in the series. While everything is, of course, different, I think that the whole Ax-in-the-ocean thing is pretty reliable. It says that Cassie starts hearing Ax's "cries" for help on day seven, only one week after they would have received the morphing power a la normal timeline. And Ax escapes somewhere between day 24 and day 31. Does this jive with your concept of the first few books, or do you think it's off? Why do you think it changed?

I think this book actually works really hard not to give you an idea how much time passed between books. I guess what you said was pretty incontrovertible evidence, but even so, Cassie could have been hearing whispers without really knowing what they were as soon as the end of book one. Because that book in itself takes at least three or four days.

Anyway, the thing I was kind of "wut" about was when Rachel and Marco saw Marco's mom, because THAT gave a VERY clear idea how many days it was until #5, but then it turned out that was the first snag in the fabric of the new made-up universe or whatever. I know some of us try to figure out how much time passes in between books but I kind of think we're really not supposed to know. Because, iirc, they drop the "day X" thing after a while, even in this book.

3) Any thoughts about Rachel and Marco as a couple?

ngl I know there are a healthy amount of Rachel/Tobias fans, but Rachel always seemed out of character to me when they were together. I kind of prefer Marco/Rachel, their flirtation at least feels natural.

4) Keeping in mind that this timeline is distorted thanks to good old Cassie, if it were real do you think it is likely that Tobias would have joined The Sharing and possibly even become a voluntary Controller?

The thing that I think makes this the single best Megamorphs book is the fact that Tobias and Ax get a greater proportion of chapters than anyone else, and the "split up the team" tendency the MM books had is actually natural and makes sense here. This is a character-driven book. We get to explore what these people would do if they weren't in a team. It's the single best hypothetical, in terms of storytelling capacity and character development, in the entire series.

5) What do you think was different about this timeline that pushed Visser Three into open war so quickly - something that never happened in the real timeline?

Ax

6) What do you think about learning that the Ellimist essentially "stacked the deck", as Drode puts it?

I think it was the most interesting and thought-provoking deus ex machina in the series.

7) Thoughts about Cassie being an anomaly?

My favorite paragraph in the entire series was the one where she was dead for five seconds.

8 ) Anything else?

Not right now but if I think of anything I'll come back and edit.

I agree with a lot of this. Though I am a Racle/Tobias shipper at heart. I do think Tobias would have become a voluntary controller. Or at the very least not have much motivation to resist.

[AniDragon]

1) Do you blame Jake for taking the Drode up on his offer to alter the timeline? Do you think it was selfish, or understandable?

Definitely understandable. After everything Jake's been through at this point, having that one moment of weakness and giving in is hardly surprising.

2) This book gives us an interesting look at the first few books in the series. While everything is, of course, different, I think that the whole Ax-in-the-ocean thing is pretty reliable. It says that Cassie starts hearing Ax's "cries" for help on day seven, only one week after they would have received the morphing power a la normal timeline. And Ax escapes somewhere between day 24 and day 31. Does this jive with your concept of the first few books, or do you think it's off? Why do you think it changed?

Though the timeline is a bit off, I never really noticed while I was reading. I guess it was just to keep things going at a steady pace?

3) Any thoughts about Rachel and Marco as a couple? Upon my first reading, I was completely against it. Now that I have less ship-loyalties, I find it's kinda cute, and could work.

4) Keeping in mind that this timeline is distorted thanks to good old Cassie, if it were real do you think it is likely that Tobias would have joined The Sharing and possibly even become a voluntary Controller?

I think it's definitely possible. He's pretty much exactly the type of person the Sharing targets.

5) What do you think was different about this timeline that pushed Visser Three into open war so quickly - something that never happened in the real timeline?

Ax's actions, for one, plus the fact that the invasion was going better without the Animorphs' interference, making the council trust V3 more.

6) What do you think about learning that the Ellimist essentially "stacked the deck", as Drode puts it?

Though it's a Deus Ex Machina, I never really minded due to my love of the Ellimist... But really, it makes a lot of sense, when you think about it.

7) Thoughts about Cassie being an anomaly?

Well... Let's just say it inspired my 2005 NaNo.

[RYTX]

At last
1)Totally understandable; kids had a hard time, but he's still only human. And still only a kid. Feel for the boy

2)I'd push it back about a week or two, other wise the books would have been 2 days a pieces, not how it goes.

3)Cute, but couldn't last even without an intergalactic war. Eventually Rachel would shove him off a cliff.

4) Joining Sharing, sure, becoming a controller, maybe, but I don't like calling this voluntary: he walked into it yes, but he spent his time complaining in the back of his head, I'm assuming during feedings he was stuck in a cage, not wondering around the pool watching Sienfeld.  I just can't call that voluntary, as soon as he realized what was really happening he wanted out. Not truly voluntary imo

5)You know, I was gonna say something else, but Anijen's probably right; Ax

6) We'll get to that

7) Preparing for rant (jen, btw, hi-friggin'-larious)

And
8 ) I hate this book. Truly, I do; I complain and critize about other things, but this book, because of the penultimate chapter, it nearly breaks the series for me every time I read it.
And it's why I hate Cassie.
She's the best morpher, okay. She has emotional insight the others lack; okay. Her ideas and skills arguably have contributed to the success of the Animorphs more than any other individuals action; okay. She's a space time anomaly that grounds reality itself: no. No. no no no no nonononononononono. 1 makes no sense, 2 so unfair, why her of all. If you're gonna reply with what I think you're gonna reply with, let me hit up my first rant before you do:

guh. He stacked the deck. This isn't an argument, read between the lines, and it's clear the Ellimist set it all up however long ago, and that I don't like it. This is some mysterious suprahuman being saying I'm gonna put person A and see to it that they live out life this way. It's destiny, it's fate, it's divine will, whatever you call it, it is not what it was promised to be for 4 years up to this point; 5 random kids out saving the world. It's the Ellimist wonder team of selected beings because they are "special" even before this begins. Everyone has a purpose that is preordained and I do not like that. Up till this point, I always liked the Ellimist and how he was used, but at the end of this book he is given too much influence and really, it breaks my heart, cuz it says there's always someone out there setting the path, and even if they can't help you get to the end, they make sure you walk it till you're done. I don't like that. To me, that's irradication of freewill more total than anything the Yeerks could do.

[dolphin4077]

8 ) I hate this book. Truly, I do; I complain and critize about other things, but this book, because of the penultimate chapter, it nearly breaks the series for me every time I read it.
And it's why I hate Cassie.
She's the best morpher, okay. She has emotional insight the others lack; okay. Her ideas and skills arguably have contributed to the success of the Animorphs more than any other individuals action; okay. She's a space time anomaly that grounds reality itself: no. No. no no no no nonononononononono.

RYTX, you definitely captured my feelings on the subject. 

For me this was a waste of a book.  It was like watching It's A Wonderful Life, but George Bailey forgets everything he learns.   

[morfowt]

am I the only one who doesn't hate this book?

[Chad32]

I do actually like the idea that he stacked the deck, because the whole theme of the Ellemist and Crayak is that they're playing a game and setting pieces across the board. That doesn't irradicate free will. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. The Ellemist set it up, but he couldn't make them do everything that they did.

I don't see the point in having Cassie be an anomoly. She could have written it where a similar thing happened, and they wound up taking control of the Bladeship, killing Visser Three, and blasting the pool Ship at the cost of their live. Then Drode would have still changed everything back because the Yeerks were supposed to win in that timeline. The sub-space anomoly thing doesn't make sense. There is nothing like it before or after in the series, and there is no explanation for why she is like that. It's a blatant dues ex machina. Probably the most blatant in the entire series.

[anijen21]

am I the only one who doesn't hate this book?

No it's my favorite megamorphs

I just hate the end

[Chad32]

It actually has my favorite cover, because you can see all the Anis with their battlemorphs. Except Marco. Don't know why his animal is the cobra.

[Terenia]

am I the only one who doesn't hate this book?

No it's my favorite megamorphs

I just hate the end

I agree. This is my favorite Megamorphs, and I love it all the way up until the very end. And I just pretend that part didn't happen.

I do love the cover art for this one, though. It's awesome. My favorite human-Tobias too.
No it's my favorite megamorphs

I just hate the end

[morfowt]

am I the only one who doesn't hate this book?

No it's my favorite megamorphs

I just hate the end

ok... am I the only one who liked the entire book, including the end part?

[RYTX]

mmm, knew I forgot somethings in my rant.
This is a good book; it's well written, a good plot, it's interesting, and aside from the cobra has the best cover. Not my favorite, but good no doubt. I hate it not for what it is, but for what it does. Take out the second to last chapter, leave all of that totally unexplained, and I'll ignore the plot hole in it's wake and call it the Bible.
And I'd argue that horse saying chad; I problem is that their set up, what they do once they're set up is irrevalent, the fact that they're set up, and that Cassie's anomaly guarantees that they have to be set up, I can only see that as being a pawn. Dance around in circles on you're square all you want, you ain't movin till the big hand decides, and that's bad enough to me