remove ebooks?

[Dameg]

Yeah, we have time to think about it.
And I didn't say the ebooks will hurt the sales, just that I don't wanna stop uploading the ebooks because of the 2.0. I think that most of the people prefer to read the true books than ebooks on computer. Even pirates usually prefer that!
So it won't hurt so much.
We have different choices for RAF (I don't talk about AFF even if we can see with them if they accept to do the same, and I absolutely can't say about the other websites who propose our ebooks... as we are the 1st link on Google, we are the "most important"):
- We can propose free download/online-reading of the beginning of the books, so people who don't know can begin to read and buy if they like.
- Restricted download for the full ebooks, with a password that everybody who own/rent the book (s)he wanna download can find.
- Link to buy the new versions of the books.
And if there is a problem about the law, we can even try to find a place on Internet, in a "free" country where the American law have no right ^^' Richard can think about it, if he wants to protect totally his website. We're already outlaws

Edit after the 2 last messages:
Soon you'll have to pay just to write "Mickey Mouse"

Goom > I understand, so maybe we'd begin by allow the download to the participating members, for example Be a member or find the password and you can download

[Slushie Man]

I agree with Goom. I mean, the entire reason I even found this site to begin with was cause I was looking for Ebooks. If it wasn't for that I would have never found, and thus become a member of, this site.

[Dameg]

And you think people won't come if they have to register/participate or to find a password?
Then, we'll have to make a choice...

[DinosaurNothlit]

- We can propose free download/online-reading of the beginning of the books, so people who don't know can begin to read and buy if they like.

That's not a bad idea.  Not only would it allow us to leave at least a few e-books up, it might actually increase sales a bit.  People would read a few books, get hooked, and then when they decide that they have to read the rest, they are forced to buy them instead of being able to see them for free.

It might still hurt sales at the beginning, though.  So maybe we should take down all e-books to start off with, and then put a few of the early ones back up when the series gets rolling?

I think that the better thing would be a password that people can find if they buy or rent the real books, the old ones or the new ones.

I like this idea, too.  It makes people buy the books to access the e-books.  But, on the other hand, it kinda defeats the purpose of the e-books altogether, doesn't it?  I mean, what's the point of having access to the e-books when you have to have the book itself to access the digital version of the same book?

I still would prefer that we take the e-books down, mind you.  But I'm starting to see that I'm in a minority.  So either of those two ideas would be an okay compromise, I think.

Still, as Goom said, we have plenty of time to think it over.  And who knows, they may end up changing the series so much for the re-release that it becomes a moot point.

And you think people won't come if they have to register/participate or to find a password?
Then, we'll have to make a choice...

No, I think people will still come to the site.  It might be fewer people, since there are some people who come here for the e-books.  But we also get plenty of fans who find us simply because we're a forum to discuss Animorphs books, and they're nostalgic for that kind of connection.  For example, I came to this site long before I even knew there were e-books here.  I just came because I missed talking about Animorphs.

[Dameg]

In fact, about the "beginning" of the ebooks, we could put only the first chapters of 10 or 20 ebooks. For example, #1 chap 1 to 10, #2 chap 1 to 10... #10 chap 1 to 5... and then only the first chapter, or something like that.
And I understand what you say about not needing the access to the ebooks when you own the books, but it'd be a good idea for people who rent them. Or people who have an ebook-reader.
But we still have the other solution: a password for the downloads we give only to the members who participate. For example, to download them you'd have to write 10 messages (not in the boring board). So people would have to introduce themselves, talk about Animorphs or other things...
Then, if we do both things (free first chapters and password when you participate), sell and members would increase ^^

[DinosaurNothlit]

In fact, about the "beginning" of the ebooks, we could put only the first chapters of 10 or 20 ebooks. For example, #1 chap 1 to 10, #2 chap 1 to 10... #10 chap 1 to 5... and then only the first chapter, or something like that.
And I understand what you say about not needing the access to the ebooks when you own the books, but it'd be a good idea for people who rent them. Or people who have an ebook-reader.
But we still have the other solution: a password for the downloads we give only to the members who participate. For example, to download them you'd have to write 10 messages (not in the boring board). So people would have to introduce themselves, talk about Animorphs or other things...
Then, if we do both things (free first chapters and password when you participate), sell and members would increase ^^

I like the way you think, Dameg!

Putting up only the first few chapters is genius.  It would increase sales because it would force people to buy every book to read the ending, and yet still allow us to keep at least a part of the e-books up!

I sure hope it's legal, though.  That's the only thing I would worry about if we did that.  But, as has been said, there are enough torrent sites that Scholastic can't hardly hunt them all down, so maybe they won't bother?

[anijen21]

so we're just amazon.com's look inside feature now?

[Dameg]

Not "now", and we'll allow download with a password. I don't want the ebooks we made disappear from the web...
But it'd be something we can do to keep a free part of all that.

[DinosaurNothlit]

Anijen, do you really have to bash every compromise we try to make?

Not "now", and we'll allow download with a password. I don't want the ebooks we made disappear from the web...
But it'd be something we can do to keep a free part of all that.

I guess that's better than nothing, but I was picturing that only the first parts of the books would be available even with the password, and then just have nothing after that.  No matter how complex we make the registration process to get to the books, some people will still prefer doing that to paying money for them.  It's sad, but it's true.

I've got another idea, though.  How about this?  Maybe, to download each book, you need to find a password from the previous book.  We'd make it something from the back cover, or inside cover, or something like that, so it couldn't be found on the e-book version.  Or we could just 'white out' one random word from each e-book and make people answer "what word was missing?"  That would force people to buy each book in order to access the next book electronically, while still leaving the books available to anyone as long as they're willing to buy the books.  And maybe the first book could be accessed by having a certain number of posts on RAF, since my system wouldn't work for the first book.  What do you think?

[anijen21]

Anijen, do you really have to bash every compromise we try to make?

To be completely honest I don't even know what we're trying to do anymore. You seem dead set on making the ebooks unavailable in some ways to people, while I believe that they should be available, though protected. I think we have a fundamental disagreement on what purpose the ebooks serve, so no, I guess we're not going to reach a compromise. Maybe I'm just being too flip about the availability of copyrighted information on the internet, but I really don't think taking the ebooks down is going to do anything to hurt the sales of either the rerelease or the continuation, both since I believe the vast majority of fans are honest enough to buy the books and because RAF's ebooks are only one penny in the jar of ways to read the books illegally. I mean, the way you're talking, it's like people should feel guilty going to the library to read them since they're not going to convince Scholastic that a continuation is a profitable enterprise.

I think we should worry less about holding others accountable and worry more about holding ourselves accountable. The ebooks are a good resource, and being so draconian with their accessibility seems both unfairly limiting and exclusive to me.

[DinosaurNothlit]

I'm actually not disagreeing with you on a lot of your points, Anijen.  I agree that the e-books are a great resource.  Believe it or not, even as strongly as I've been arguing for it, I don't actually want them taken down, if there's any other way to keep from hurting sales.  Hey, you never know, maybe the books will be so heavily edited for the re-release that we can safely leave the e-books up, and that would be great! 

And I see your point about other illegal sources for the books, and I agree that that's a rather troublesome loose end.  It is still true, however, that RAF is the biggest and best source for e-books, so taking ours down would at least make a sizeable dent in illegal downloads.

But the way I see it is this: which would you rather have?  The ability to easily conveniently re-read the same Animorphs books over and over?  Or have new Animorphs books to read?  Please don't get me wrong, they're both great and wonderful things.  But even the distant and dim possibility of new Animorphs books being a reality some day is so incredible I can barely breathe just when I think about it.  So I'm desperately wanting to do everything in my power, and then some, to help that happen.  If I have to email every single site on the web that has Animorphs e-books, and tell them to take them all down, and if that will make any difference at all, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

[anijen21]

I think that's a great idea. I'm pretty cynical as to the amount of good it will do, but if anything it will let more people know that the series is going to potentially be extended which is news we could afford to have spread a little bit.

I guess that's the perspective I see this from--right now, there's a tightly knit and greatly motivated core of Animorphs fans who would pretty much cut off an arm to get a reboot, and the other 99.999999% of the population who's more like "Oh, Animorphs? Was that another of P.S. Stine's series?" I don't think there's much controversy in what the tight-knit group is going to do. Arms are generally worth more than $200 or whatever the rerelease is going to cost, so that's great. What we need to do is figure out how to get at least part of the 99.9999999% of the population to care enough about the rerelease to buy them. And I know it's kind of counter-intuitive, but I don't believe being all reclusive and greedy with our resources is the way to do it. We need to accept new fans with open arms, not with a bunch of caveats and hindrances.

So if anything, we should be all "COME TO RAF WE HAVE FREE BOOKS."

But, like I said, I could be wrong. I'm really thinking of the rerelease more from the perspective of an unsigned band on MySpace who would kill just to get people to listen to their music, rather than Britney Spears who puts watermarks and passwords on her CDs just so people don't share them. But you know what? People still do, and then they hate the record label for making them break through paswords.

[DinosaurNothlit]

Haha, I guess I've just been thinking about it like a Britney Spears CD, then.  But you're probably right on that point.  Animorphs never exactly reached Harry Potter or Twilight-level popularity.

And you're quite right that we need to spread the word, one way or another, about Animorphs.  Hopefully Scholastic will advertise the re-release and take care of some of that for us, but every little bit is going to help.

How many people, though, of that 99.999999%, would read the books online and then buy them?  I realize that I would (and not just with Animorphs, either, but with any book I happen to like), but then again I have to admit I'm kind of an outlier on the bell-curve of humanity.  So, even if we do make a whole bunch of new fans by offering them free books, wouldn't a good percentage of that be sorta-halfway fans who are contented with just reading the books online and never actually buy them?  Maybe not all of them would be like that, and maybe you're right and that would be the way to get people to buy the books.  I don't honestly know.  It's hard to say how it would play out, and we of course can't know for certain one way or another until it's much too late.

Going back to your CD analogy, though, there are loads of people who are just content with downloading music illegally, and those people almost never turn around and buy the CD after they already have the music.  Books are a bit different from music, though, so that was just a thought.

[anijen21]

idk I mean tbh a pdf was how I read Twilight. And that certainly did nothing to deter its success.

People will read the books on here and then not buy them. I just think the number of people who do that will be less than the number of people we could potentially gain being open and welcoming with everything we have to offer.

And besides, I STILL believe the rereleases are going to be updated/edited, so the e-books are going to be more of a fun artifact than a viable replacement. But whatever those are my thoughts.

[Dameg]

Well, I think we'll have to wait to decide.
We don't know exactly how will be the 2.0.
Personally, I'd just like that ebooks stay available in a way, with or without password (we have time to decide) and that the sells aren't hurt by it (and if we can even help them, it's great).
If the 2.0 is different, we'll have to take care about the password, because some words can change...
Don't be stressed by that.
And if you want that more people care about Animorphs, do advertising about our ebooks now! If people begin to read them here, trust me, they won't read the 64 ebooks ^^' (or only the few totally insane geeks) and they'll buy the 2.0.
Good luck