Author Topic: Mind-Blowing Logical Inconsistencies in Megamorphs #3: Elfangor's Secret  (Read 3952 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Estelore

  • Constant and Distant
  • God
  • ********
  • Posts: 6709
  • Karma: 369
  • Gender: Female
  • Your friendly neighbourhood plural system
Right after Ellimist Chronicles, #54, and #8, this was easily my favourite book in the series... and it also did the most of all the books to creep the everlovingheck outta' me.

SPOILER, woop.

So they go back in time to kill the bad guy by preventing his birth, right?

Wrong. They kill his HOST. Not the villain, the villain's host.
Doesn't this mean that logically, except for the part about Shakespeareian annoyances, the story would still have happened approximately the same way, with another host? And on top of that, a perfectly innocent human being was prevented from ever living, and who KNOWS how that could've altered history!?

I don't know about you, but that prospect is more than a bit chilling to me.

Feel free in this thread to discuss this and any other logical eff-ups in this book. :)
« Last Edit: July 23, 2009, 09:58:15 AM by Phoenix004 »
The universe is, instant by instant, re-created anew. There is, in truth, no Past, only a memory of the Past. Blink your eyes, and the world you see next did not exist when you closed them. The only appropriate state of the mind is surprise. The only appropriate state of the heart is joy. The sky you see now, you have never seen before. The perfect moment is now. Be glad of it.

-GNU Terry Pratchet, The Thief of Time

Offline morfowt

  • God
  • ********
  • Posts: 8333
  • Karma: 112
  • Gender: Male
  • this is my avatar. it's a picture of nothing...
yeah I've noticed that for a while too. I think it was mentioned in another thread before... the answer was, without that particular host, the yeerk might not have passed through the construction site... *shrugs*

p,s, elfangor's secret is megamorphs #3

Offline AniDragon

  • Gold Donor
  • *********
  • Posts: 2999
  • Karma: 174
  • Gender: Female
  • Train of thought, like broken pencil, has no point
    • My tumblr
Yeah, that always bothered me, too. I think I made a post about it in the group re-read thread... Just a sec, gonna go find it...

Well, apparently I hadn't posted as long of a rant on it as I originally thought. :P lol.

7) They eventually succeed in fixing the timeline by preventing John Berryman's existence. How do you think this may have altered subsequent timelines? Was this the best/only solution?

This seemed very iffy for me, actually. Because it's not John Berryman who found the Time Matrix, it's Visser Four. Even if he ends up in another host, he might still find the Time Matrix, and then they have to go through all this again.

Other than that, though I enjoyed the book. ^_^.

Thread is found here: http://animorphsforum.com/forum/index.php/topic,3165.0.html

In the end, it looks like it was agreed that Crayal had put the location of the Time Matrix in his head, and so after the Animorphs prevented Berryman's birth, Crayak gave up on trying again, since he knew that they'd just stop him again.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2009, 06:44:02 PM by AniDragon »
~AniDragon, aka Riona-chan~



Currently Reading: Winterwode, by J Tullos Hennig
Currently Writing: Demon's Bane
Currently Editing: Elder's Requiem

Offline Estelore

  • Constant and Distant
  • God
  • ********
  • Posts: 6709
  • Karma: 369
  • Gender: Female
  • Your friendly neighbourhood plural system
Quote
yeah I've noticed that for a while too. I think it was mentioned in another thread before... the answer was, without that particular host, the yeerk might not have passed through the construction site... *shrugs*

p,s, elfangor's secret is megamorphs #3

Cookie +1 for Morfowt. :D
I know, I know, sad joke, but still. :)
The universe is, instant by instant, re-created anew. There is, in truth, no Past, only a memory of the Past. Blink your eyes, and the world you see next did not exist when you closed them. The only appropriate state of the mind is surprise. The only appropriate state of the heart is joy. The sky you see now, you have never seen before. The perfect moment is now. Be glad of it.

-GNU Terry Pratchet, The Thief of Time

Offline Phoenix004

  • RAF Ancient
  • Sr. Staff
  • *****
  • Posts: 20492
  • Karma: 710
  • Gender: Male
  • With great RAFpower comes great RAFsponsibility...
yeah I've noticed that for a while too. I think it was mentioned in another thread before... the answer was, without that particular host, the yeerk might not have passed through the construction site... *shrugs*

p,s, elfangor's secret is megamorphs #3

Agreed, that's what I always assumed as well. And I've edited the subject title.
Animorphs Travels #1 The Invasion
http://animorphsforum.com/index.php?topic=10876.msg860745#msg860745

RAFcon 2015: It's always Hot Dog Day somewhere!

Offline Shock

  • Xtreme Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 4105
  • Karma: 188
  • Attitudes are contagious. Mine might kill you.
Paradoxs tend to occur when you introduce Time Travel to any plot.

however, i could go into really high-minded theorical phyics and say about how time is like a bunch of streams and in reality, you are just using a higher demintion to jump into another.

but that would take a full page long essay.

to apply occum's Razor, i would just say that the Ellimist and/or Crayak just hit the reset buttion and make it so that the host would have never found out about that.
Cannibals are seriously messed up
Quote
[17:05:27] Reiyn: Shock's tact and diplomacy is unparalleled.
Beware of he who would deny you access to information. For in his heart, he dreams himself your master
Quote from: K.A. Applegate
So sorry to get you into writing. What a horrible thing to inflict on you. Should have just sold you crack.

Offline Chad32

  • God
  • ********
  • Posts: 11951
  • Karma: 195
  • Gender: Male
Everyone loves using time travel, even though no one really knows how it would work. That's why it's always confusing, complicated, and sometimes contradictory.

It is sad that the guy had to be wiped out of existance through no fault of his own. Not to mention his parents, though hopefully they find love and happiness elsewhere.


Ani-Master 2014!

Offline Mr. Guy36

  • Xtreme Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 2031
  • Karma: 76
  • Gender: Male
  • im still in ur ear, still controllin ur body
An ellimist did it.

Otherwise, you get into the classic grandfather paradox. If the whole thing never happened, then they didn't go back to stop Berryman's parents. But then it did...etc...etc...



I refuse to remove this sig because of some petty argument. RAF must remain solid.
By popular demand, now with Gaz!

Above silence, the illuminating storms - Dying storms - Illuminate the silence above

Offline RYTX

  • Shadow and Flame
  • Xtreme Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 4877
  • Karma: 140
  • Gender: Male
  • Pretend I said something clever
Personal theory is that Berryman was somewhere from the vicinity of the time matrix. So while it was V4 who found it, it's because he was sent back to the right place after his demotion.

Maybe with no Berryman he gets a Hork-Bajir host or something, and after his failing gets shipped to guard duty on the Taxxon planet or something.
As they say in real estate, it's all about location location location.
Wrong host, wrong location, no time to find time warping super machines
Something, something, oh crap I pissed everyone off again....

Offline Myitt

  • Mangiatore dei gatti -- RAFcapella
  • Gold Donor
  • *********
  • Posts: 10449
  • Karma: 487
  • Gender: Female
  • Don't you mean extinct...?
Yeah, I agree RYTX, without John Berryman as a host the Yeerk Visser Four was probably sent to some other planet, another assignment or whatever. 

I loved this book, it was filled with really serious moral issues and some great scenes.  Cassie demorphing as a young black woman in front of racist 1930s Princeton students, modern slavery (of handicapped people no less), some messed up scenes where wars just haven't gone the way they were supposed to, Jake mentioning that Jews could still be considered easy targets for treason...very very dark stuff, for the series.

...plus someone (Marco?) in Hork-Bajir morph, holding a pitchfork, scaring the hell outta some poor medieval churchgoers XD  Best ever.


"Screw drugs.  Smoke RAF." - Ash

Offline Kitulean

  • Jr. Xtreme Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1481
  • Karma: 203
  • Gender: Male
  • Kit Army Second
Tobias was the one in Hork-Bajir morph. That poor priest.

Offline EscafilDevice

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 213
  • Karma: 18
  • Gender: Female
Personal theory is that Berryman was somewhere from the vicinity of the time matrix. So while it was V4 who found it, it's because he was sent back to the right place after his demotion.

Maybe with no Berryman he gets a Hork-Bajir host or something, and after his failing gets shipped to guard duty on the Taxxon planet or something.
As they say in real estate, it's all about location location location.
Wrong host, wrong location, no time to find time warping super machines

^This.

You know, there's a difference between "illogical" and just not liking something.

Offline SkyMorpher

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 639
  • Karma: 16
  • Gender: Female
  • Fly high, seek peace, God bless (Formerly Animel23
My main beef is why the time matrix never came up again after that.

Offline Kitulean

  • Jr. Xtreme Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1481
  • Karma: 203
  • Gender: Male
  • Kit Army Second
Because using the same plot device might be a bit much, and there was already enough time travel/time inconsistencies in the books.

Offline Chad32

  • God
  • ********
  • Posts: 11951
  • Karma: 195
  • Gender: Male
You would think SOMEONE would think to use the TM to bring Rachel back. Tobias, Cassie, Jake, anyone.


Ani-Master 2014!