You know what just kills me....?? (spoiler)

[morfowt]

actually it was only 23 auxiliaries...

[ChimichangaChupacabra]

Really?  Okay, wow, it's been a while since I've read #54.  23 dead, or 23 total he sent along with the General?  What happened to the others?  Didn't they recruit a lot more than that from the hospitals/care centers?

[JFalcon]

I think it was just 23 (though I don't remember it being that exact number it sounds bout right) they kept the number small(ish) and must have taken some losses over the course of things. I can believe that there were only 23 aux-animorphs.

Only 23 children sent on a suicide mission, made to watch as one by one or in small groups their friends were vaporized by an enemy they couldn't fight back against, who had to wait their turn hoping that by some miracle they'd survive. Can you imagine being that helpless, seeing everyone around you dying and knowing you can't do a thing about it? To have an enemy you can't hope to hurt make sport of you, slowly targeting one animal after another, drawing it out for their enjoyment while you, a child, have to keep marching, keep on going, you can't run, you can't escape and all around you your friends and comrades die, no way to avenge them, no way to save them.

23, 100 or 1000 as far as I'm concerened that's suffering, the lower the number only shows how much longer Visser 1 dragged the game on.

They're barely even mentioned when its over.

It was a sad scene but also a great one because of the bravery shown by the auxiluries and because it solidifies Visser as a villain, not some cooky old man who cries "you meddling kids!" every so often. A truly epic moment in Animorphs.

[KOFSoldier]

I think it was just 23 (though I don't remember it being that exact number it sounds bout right) they kept the number small(ish) and must have taken some losses over the course of things. I can believe that there were only 23 aux-animorphs.

Only 23 children sent on a suicide mission, made to watch as one by one or in small groups their friends were vaporized by an enemy they couldn't fight back against, who had to wait their turn hoping that by some miracle they'd survive. Can you imagine being that helpless, seeing everyone around you dying and knowing you can't do a thing about it? To have an enemy you can't hope to hurt make sport of you, slowly targeting one animal after another, drawing it out for their enjoyment while you, a child, have to keep marching, keep on going, you can't run, you can't escape and all around you your friends and comrades die, no way to avenge them, no way to save them.

23, 100 or 1000 as far as I'm concerened that's suffering, the lower the number only shows how much longer Visser 1 dragged the game on.

They're barely even mentioned when its over.

It was a sad scene but also a great one because of the bravery shown by the auxiluries and because it solidifies Visser as a villain, not some cooky old man who cries "you meddling kids!" every so often. A truly epic moment in Animorphs.

You should be an author.

I swear I've never thought that deeply about their situation. I have reflected on it and always thought it was sad that no one even seemed to think about them after the war, but it never occurred to me that their situation was extremely similar to Rachel's.

[DinosaurNothlit]

So very true, JFalcon, and a very eloquent point, too.  I think I cried almost as much for the auxilaries as I did for Rachel (almost).  But it's like they were just forgotten after the war.

But then, they weren't the only ones.  Jara Hamee, the founder of the free Hork-Bajir (and a character that I really liked!), died that day, too.  His death was just kind of lost in the shuffle, which always made me a little sad.  Hell, even Toby didn't seem to care.  :'(

[AniDragon]

Yeah, I remember when I re-read the books, it took me by surprise that Jara Hamee died, since I'd forgotten about that part from the first time I read it... I mean, you shouldn't be able to forget the death of a character as major as Jara Hamee!

[fao13]

Hell, even Toby didn't seem to care.  :'(

actually, i disagree with that. Toby's line about her fathers death STILL gives me chills.

"He was the first of the free Hork-Bajir," Toby said fiercely. "He was the father of his people. And he was my father."

i can just picture that scene and it kills me every time

[DinosaurNothlit]

Hell, even Toby didn't seem to care.  :'(

actually, i disagree with that. Toby's line about her fathers death STILL gives me chills.

"He was the first of the free Hork-Bajir," Toby said fiercely. "He was the father of his people. And he was my father."

i can just picture that scene and it kills me every time

Okay, wow, I'd forgotten that line.  It's been a while since I've read the last book.

So I retract my previous statement.  Toby did care.  But she was the only one, I think.

[Chad32]

I did forget over time that Jara died. It seemed to me his death was just so Toby could relate to what happened to Tobias a bit. Then nothing more was mentioned. A ton of loose ends with that last book. I hate it!

[ChimichangaChupacabra]

Yeah, okay, so even if it was 23 kids Jake sent to die, knowing they were going to die, and basically using them as a diversion, wouldn't it seem that would bug him after the war more than (or at least equal to) things like the 17,000 and the blowing up of the pool?

[Aquilai]

Well really you can't quantify grief or suffering. You can guess who suffered more at the end, but it's just a guess so the order of anyone's list would be purely guessing based on personal observation, who's to say whether Jake or Tobias suffered more, both of their lives pretty much ended.

Personally I think the auxiluries were right up there with Rachel not because they were killed but because of the manner in which they were killed, sticking purely to the core Animorphs however I agree that whether you swap Jake for Tobias or not they're both right up there at the top of the list.

I'd say that you're wrong. You can qualify, if you'll excuse my unorthodox use of the word, suffering and  you can quantify it. For the first meaning of the comparison you can say that 23 auxiliaries died or 17000 Yeerks were murdered and they all suffered (immeasurable amounts). For the second meaning you could say that someone who was put through torture of being vaporised limb by limb suffered more than a whole pool of instantly frozen to death Yeerks.

Another meaning of just quantifying suffering is what I was thinking of in my original post which is the entire volume of reasons to be suffering. I'll agree that we can't definitively say "I can give you a 9/10 pity rating" but inherently we will assume that the more reasons to feel bad (quantity) the greater the suffering.  It goes without saying that someone who has many large losses will be pitied more than someone who has 1 or two (assuming both persons do not deserve said suffering).

Basically I'm making the assumption that there's a limit to how much suffering one person can feel for a single immense loss which equates to quantity being more significant than for lack of a better word quality. Jake has had a full range of losses. You could argue he can become so desensitised he never ever again feels pain but from his reaction to life after the war I don't think so.

And if you read through that bless you!

[morfowt]

I read through all that... I still don't really get it...

[Aquilai]

Oh that was kinda specific for JFalcon when he said that you couldn't say one person shouldn't deserve pity more than another person because you can't quantify or say how much or more or less a person suffers than another. The post before his reply I was surprised that goom thought Tobias deserved more pity than Jake.

Simply put I guess it's just me being curious as to goom's reasoning and me being pedantic about JFalcon's response. Never mind!

[JFalcon]

Well really you can't quantify grief or suffering. You can guess who suffered more at the end, but it's just a guess so the order of anyone's list would be purely guessing based on personal observation, who's to say whether Jake or Tobias suffered more, both of their lives pretty much ended.

Personally I think the auxiluries were right up there with Rachel not because they were killed but because of the manner in which they were killed, sticking purely to the core Animorphs however I agree that whether you swap Jake for Tobias or not they're both right up there at the top of the list.

I'd say that you're wrong. You can qualify, if you'll excuse my unorthodox use of the word, suffering and  you can quantify it. For the first meaning of the comparison you can say that 23 auxiliaries died or 17000 Yeerks were murdered and they all suffered (immeasurable amounts). For the second meaning you could say that someone who was put through torture of being vaporised limb by limb suffered more than a whole pool of instantly frozen to death Yeerks.

Another meaning of just quantifying suffering is what I was thinking of in my original post which is the entire volume of reasons to be suffering. I'll agree that we can't definitively say "I can give you a 9/10 pity rating" but inherently we will assume that the more reasons to feel bad (quantity) the greater the suffering.  It goes without saying that someone who has many large losses will be pitied more than someone who has 1 or two (assuming both persons do not deserve said suffering).

Basically I'm making the assumption that there's a limit to how much suffering one person can feel for a single immense loss which equates to quantity being more significant than for lack of a better word quality. Jake has had a full range of losses. You could argue he can become so desensitised he never ever again feels pain but from his reaction to life after the war I don't think so.

And if you read through that bless you!

I did read it all, bwahaha, I never shy away from reading medium-to-long posts 

Anyway you can't say how much a loss or pain person feels, only they know and they'll never know how much anyone else is feeling. You can guess the quantity of their grief, you can even assign how much you think they should feel but only they know how much something hurts really them.

You can call a girl fat on the school bus and you never know just how badly that stings her you know? Some girls roll their eyes, others . . . well, take less than healthy measures. You can decide how much you pity them, sure, but my point was that it'd be a personal feeling depending on whom the judge is, so a list of whom to pity and how much would be a very personal opinion list.

[ChimichangaChupacabra]

Whatchu'laughin'bout, Blockyillis?