Author Topic: Group Re-Read: MegaMorphs 2, In The Time of the Dinosaurs  (Read 8157 times)

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Offline morfowt

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Re: Group Re-Read: MegaMorphs 2, In The Time of the Dinosaurs
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2009, 09:29:58 PM »
yeah there are, in fact the whole ending climax of the book was about yeerks...

Offline Gafrash

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Re: Group Re-Read: MegaMorphs 2, In The Time of the Dinosaurs
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2009, 01:57:19 AM »
...I just realized how so many of these Ani concepts may have inspired KA on her later series Everworld and Remnants.
Cassie takes us on a description trip of the comet that brought on a change to Earth 65 million years aho. An idea that was later re-lifted by KA and set her on the path of the Remnants series, years later.
And (without meaning to go on a tangent), in the Andalite Chronicles, we get a generated-environment of mixed-in AndaliteXEarthXYeer k Worlds through the interfaced Time Mattrix. It makes me think of Everworld itself with the mixture of those mythical cultural places. Furthermore, it sounds a hell lot like a certain 'Mother' in the Remnants too, huh!?

Offline dolphin4077

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Re: Group Re-Read: MegaMorphs 2, In The Time of the Dinosaurs
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2009, 10:43:09 AM »
Gafrash, I love making comaprisons among KAA's series.  If you want to read some of mine, check out the Mr. Trent thread in the Everworld forum. 

Offline Visser19

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Re: Group Re-Read: MegaMorphs 2, In The Time of the Dinosaurs
« Reply #18 on: April 06, 2010, 12:50:47 PM »
Also, why did they lose all the dino morphs? I mean, I know that Ax said he wasn't sure why and that it would be way too hard to explain, but come on! Just another KASU?



(*coughs* yes!)

Offline MoppingBear

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Re: Group Re-Read: MegaMorphs 2, In The Time of the Dinosaurs
« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2010, 01:56:59 PM »
Also, why did they lose all the dino morphs? I mean, I know that Ax said he wasn't sure why and that it would be way too hard to explain, but come on! Just another KASU?



(*coughs* yes!)

Not a KASU, more like a landshape hanging.  If they could morph dinos from then on, they'd have way too powerful of morphs at their disposal, and it would be a whole different series.

Offline LargeMoth

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Re: Group Re-Read: MegaMorphs 2, In The Time of the Dinosaurs
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2010, 04:58:52 PM »
Also, why did they lose all the dino morphs? I mean, I know that Ax said he wasn't sure why and that it would be way too hard to explain, but come on! Just another KASU?



(*coughs* yes!)

I think the whole situation was framed as a Sario Rip, which, if you remember Ax describing it to Jake in 11 they couldn't keep their morphs because technically, they were never there. I believe the same could apply to the dinosaurs in this Megamorph :3


1) No. It's a nice thought, but ultimately they knew their bottom line, the main reason they had that ability was to fight. I think the usage was adequate to highlight that they were more than just warriors for the cause, but any more would have altered the message of the books I feel.

2) A nice break from the war I think; It was a way to take a step back and see the Animorphs act more intimately within their own ranks and with novel aliens.

3) This is one of my favorite Megamorphs, and I felt her portrayal of the times reflected knowledge, simplified of course, that reflected the nature of understanding at the time.

4) It helps put the Earth into perspective on the Universal scale, instead of just this planet in just this Solar System.

5) Who's to say? The Dinosaurs most likely reached their peak of evolution and many of them were specialized and truth be told, something would have done the job.

6) I enjoyed these scenes because they bring about Rachel's state of mind before and then forcing her to acknowledge (at least in some degree) what Tobias really wants and who he identifies as (instead of what she wants).

7) Cassie...I do think she over-reacted. It could have been avoided, yes, but the fact is she was caught up in instinct and she was doing what TRexs do. That being said, I do think it was one of the things that led to her breaking point.


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Offline Serraph105

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Re: Group Re-Read: MegaMorphs 2, In The Time of the Dinosaurs
« Reply #21 on: April 07, 2010, 12:04:53 AM »
1) The entire debacle gets started because Marco hears about a downed submarine and alerts the group in a non-war related rescue mission. This is basically one of the only times we see the Ani's do something like this actively. Do you think they should have used their powers to help people (in ways unrelated to the war) more often?

they did use their powers to help other people actually just not as a group so much. They happened mostly in the early books in the openings but still. Remember book 12 when Rachel saved the little kid fro the crocs?

2) This is one of the few books (the only book?) that has absolutely NO Yeerks in it. Did you find the book completely irrelevant, a nice break from the war, or something else?

It was mostly irrelevant, but at the same time I think it was pretty well told so I'm not really bothered by it. Only thing that bothers me is that they never once reference this crazy adventure again, but then again that's the same thing with all the megamorphs books.

3) In general, what'd you think about the idea of the Ani's in the dino time? Did you think KA's portrayal was well-done?

I got to have my dream of the Animorphs morphing dinos realized so all in all I was happy. And yeah it seemed pretty well done.

4) What do you think of the portrayal of the Nesk and the Mercora and the idea that Earth was being fought over millions of years before humans popped into existence?
I don't know. On one hand at this point in the story I was used to having layered characters and the Nesk and Mercora certainly were not. One was clearly bad and the other was clearly evil. On the other hand it did come keep up the theme of war (aka it will always be there no matter what period time you're in) and they were more or less needed to get the Animorphs back to where and when they were supposed to be.

5) Based on this book, the Animorphs are basically the cause of not only the extinction of the dinosaurs, but also the evolution of humans. What do you think the world would be like if the comet had never struck Earth? Pure speculation, of course, but how do you think the Earth may have evolved in 65 million years if nothing had wiped out the dino's?

well the dino's would have likely wiped themselves out (or at least mostly) and we would have more dinos today besides just Nessie :P Seriously though we might be several hundred years behind where we are now because we would still be trying to survive.

6) Rachel briefly brings up the idea of Tobias staying in morph permanently. Then, when the dino morph takes over Tobias' mind temporarily she revives him not by saying he's human, but by saying he is a hawk. What do you think about these scenes? What does it say about their characters and their development?

I don't think it says a whole lot actually. When you are trying to save someone (be it yourself or them) you will generally say whatever you think will work.

7) Cassie, the moral one, gets caught up in the T-Rex morph and kills a triceratops. She is extremely distraught by the fact that she's killed an animal. Do you think she over-reacted? Considering what happens in the next book, do you think this was one of the things that led to the breaking point?

Of course she over-reacted. Don't get me wrong I feel for animals, but if you don't have control of yourself then you don't have control of yourself. That's it and you can't continually blame yourself if you want to stay mentally healthy. Of course none of the Animorphs were all that healthy mentally (with maybe the exception of Ax) before the end of the series.

 Anything else?

Offline Vanish

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Re: Group Re-Read: MegaMorphs 2, In The Time of the Dinosaurs
« Reply #22 on: April 07, 2010, 12:24:40 AM »

Questions
1) The entire debacle gets started because Marco hears about a downed submarine and alerts the group in a non-war related rescue mission. This is basically one of the only times we see the Ani's do something like this actively. Do you think they should have used their powers to help people (in ways unrelated to the war) more often?

No I don't it would have increased their chances of blowing their cover or somehow getting caught. They're trying to save the human race, it's not worth the risk.

2) This is one of the few books (the only book?) that has absolutely NO Yeerks in it. Did you find the book completely irrelevant, a nice break from the war, or something else?

It was a nice change, I love dinosaurs so I enjoyed this one.

3) In general, what'd you think about the idea of the Ani's in the dino time? Did you think KA's portrayal was well-done?

It seemed good but I'm not a dinosaur expert so I don't know. I still don't understand why Tobias was unable to heal his broken wing by morphing though.


4) What do you think of the portrayal of the Nesk and the Mercora and the idea that Earth was being fought over millions of years before humans popped into existence?

I loved it! To this day I still think that's how dinosaurs went extinct

5) Based on this book, the Animorphs are basically the cause of not only the extinction of the dinosaurs, but also the evolution of humans. What do you think the world would be like if the comet had never struck Earth? Pure speculation, of course, but how do you think the Earth may have evolved in 65 million years if nothing had wiped out the dino's?

I think that humans would not exist. But I think there could be some kind of intelligent dinosaur civilization.


7) Cassie, the moral one, gets caught up in the T-Rex morph and kills a triceratops. She is extremely distraught by the fact that she's killed an animal. Do you think she over-reacted? Considering what happens in the next book, do you think this was one of the things that led to the breaking point?

Yes and No. While I can't even imagine what doing that would do to someone killing isn't new for her.

O(o_o)O

Offline Visser19

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Re: Group Re-Read: MegaMorphs 2, In The Time of the Dinosaurs
« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2010, 08:42:16 PM »
Also, why did they lose all the dino morphs? I mean, I know that Ax said he wasn't sure why and that it would be way too hard to explain, but come on! Just another KASU?



(*coughs* yes!)

I think the whole situation was framed as a Sario Rip, which, if you remember Ax describing it to Jake in 11 they couldn't keep their morphs because technically, they were never there. I believe the same could apply to the dinosaurs in this Megamorph :3

Yeah, but unlike a Sario Rip, they definitely were there because the consequences of dinosaurs going extinct and all is there.

Not a KASU, more like a landshape hanging.  If they could morph dinos from then on, they'd have way too powerful of morphs at their disposal, and it would be a whole different series.

Yeah, but how awesome would that be!?  8)
« Last Edit: April 07, 2010, 08:44:48 PM by Visser19 »

Offline Ferahgo

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Re: Group Re-Read: MegaMorphs 2, In The Time of the Dinosaurs
« Reply #24 on: June 04, 2010, 10:04:07 PM »
Yeah I know this thread is old but I reread this book today and wanted to throw in my two cents -

I've got to be probably the only dinosaur buff on the planet that didn't really like the portrayal of dinos in this book. Like, really didn't like it. I'm not (usually) a pedant about accuracy when it comes to fiction, but there are a lot of things that KAA got wrong in this book that she really shouldn't have. And no, I'm not even talking about feathers. This book was written in 1998 so I would expect only the most in-depth paleobuffs to know about that. I'm talking about simple stuff like sticking Deinonychus in the same time period as T. rex and Triceratops, which any 8-year-old dinosaur nerd could tell you is wrong.

I still don't understand why Tobias was unable to heal his broken wing by morphing though.

The answer to this finally dawned on me today for the first time. Not the science of it (which probably makes no sense), but the reason from a plot and story perspective. If Tobias had been able to hunt normally as a hawk would hunt, he would have ended up consuming far too many tasty little primitive rodents. You know what that could mean for humanity millions of years later. :o

Okay, I know that the chance of Tobias choosing to eat THE rodent responsible for the evolution of modern mammals is pretty slim, but it's an amusing thought.  ;)



Offline Myitt

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Re: Group Re-Read: MegaMorphs 2, In The Time of the Dinosaurs
« Reply #25 on: June 04, 2010, 11:40:02 PM »
Yeah I know this thread is old but I reread this book today and wanted to throw in my two cents -

I've got to be probably the only dinosaur buff on the planet that didn't really like the portrayal of dinos in this book. Like, really didn't like it. I'm not (usually) a pedant about accuracy when it comes to fiction, but there are a lot of things that KAA got wrong in this book that she really shouldn't have. And no, I'm not even talking about feathers. This book was written in 1998 so I would expect only the most in-depth paleobuffs to know about that. I'm talking about simple stuff like sticking Deinonychus in the same time period as T. rex and Triceratops, which any 8-year-old dinosaur nerd could tell you is wrong.

I still don't understand why Tobias was unable to heal his broken wing by morphing though.

The answer to this finally dawned on me today for the first time. Not the science of it (which probably makes no sense), but the reason from a plot and story perspective. If Tobias had been able to hunt normally as a hawk would hunt, he would have ended up consuming far too many tasty little primitive rodents. You know what that could mean for humanity millions of years later. :o

Okay, I know that the chance of Tobias choosing to eat THE rodent responsible for the evolution of modern mammals is pretty slim, but it's an amusing thought.  ;)



Hey, Ferahgo! :D Long time no see.  Well, I understand your concerns, trust me...this is the same book that wanted us to trust Tobias' opinion on the correct geological time placement of Spinosaurus versus a bunch of scientists with dusty old bones!

Another concern for me was their global position--were they supposed to be in southern California, or the Gobi, dealing with T. bataar?  Who knows, there's a huuuge suspension of disbelief in this book, and while it wasn't my favorite...I was still glad that the Animorphs had at least some kind of prehistoric adventure. x3


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Offline JohnBlaze

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Re: Group Re-Read: MegaMorphs 2, In The Time of the Dinosaurs
« Reply #26 on: June 16, 2010, 01:29:45 AM »
Funny how irrelevant it was to the series, i dont even think it was mentioned anymore....but it was fun to read
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Offline Kotetsu1442

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Re: Group Re-Read: MegaMorphs 2, In The Time of the Dinosaurs
« Reply #27 on: July 01, 2010, 09:48:24 PM »
Questions (or at least those that I feel I have something worth contributing that hasn't already been said)

2) This is one of the few books (the only book?) that has absolutely NO Yeerks in it. Did you find the book completely irrelevant, a nice break from the war, or something else?

Yes it was a nice break, but only because the MegaMorphs already lend themselves to be an aside from the main series. In the main series I think it would be distracting to have something like this that is not 'relevant' to the whole point of the series; but as the MMs are designed to be very "And now for something that's completely different" I think it's neat to step aside and engage in something else, in the same way that the 'Chronicles' were designed to fill in backstories but normally it isn't permissible to step out the main characters perspectives.

Funny how irrelevant it was to the series, i dont even think it was mentioned anymore....but it was fun to read

Really, you could point out a good handful of Animorphs books that have storylines that are irrelevant in the long run; ones that had the Animorphs avoided getting mixed up in the Yeerks really wouldn't be any more powerful anyways. At least as a MegaMorph, it's already feels like it is supposed to be outside of the normal series in some way.

3) In general, what'd you think about the idea of the Ani's in the dino time? Did you think KA's portrayal was well-done?

In general, the portrayal of the Animorphs in a completely new setting was a great aside from the main story. One thing I appreciated was that, though the series was its own brand of 'animal shapeshifters' that had never been done either in fantasy or sci-fi, it surprised me as the series evolved from sticking solely to its original premise by doing a great job of jumping into other types of sci-fi/fantasy. The Helmacrons brought in the exploration of shifting in scale of characters and objects for new perspective that you see in the 'Honey I Shrunk the Kids' movies, 'Alice's Adventures in Wonderland' and 'Gulliver's Travels' for example. This seamless shift to other types of fantastic settings while staying in the Ani-verse was very cool and this exploration of the Animorphs series into a "Dino-story" type of sci-fi was totally awesome (OK, maybe it wasn't entirely seamless shift in this case, but I'll rant about that later). I identified very much with Tobias' childhood memories of being totally fascinated and obsessed with dinosaurs. Along with various articles, books and fact-pages about dinosaurs, the first book I ever owned was one of those 'personalized books' that you can order where they put your kids' name into the individual copy and it told all about me going back in time and having an adventure with friendly dinosaurs, I asked to have it read to me hundreds of times between the ages of 2 and 4 or so.

But while it was awesome in general, I agree with Ferahgo that as cool as the setting was, the fudging the details kinda annoyed me. While I appreciated the 'note from Tobias' at the end that let us know that it wasn't a KASU in the sense that she didn't do her research before writing, but in that she knew her writing didn't fit historically but was willing to say "here's my story, it's pretty neat so enjoy it." It was a good story, it was neat, I enjoyed it. Still, I believe it was entirely within her imaginative capabilities to work with the framework of existing history to make just as interesting and engaging of a story. Sure the setting had to have been late-Cretaceous to have had the ending it did and yes that would mean swapping out a few of the species in the story for a bit more realism, but Big Rex would have still been around and honestly: Who cares about all the other details as long as the dino-story involves him?

4) What do you think of the portrayal of the Nesk and the Mercora and the idea that Earth was being fought over millions of years before humans popped into existence?

I'm not going to go on at too much length here, except to say that it does a great job of showing an ongoing, even eternal, struggle of Good vs. Evil and the interconnectedness of it all.

6) Rachel briefly brings up the idea of Tobias staying in morph permanently. Then, when the dino morph takes over Tobias' mind temporarily she revives him not by saying he's human, but by saying he is a hawk. What do you think about these scenes? What does it say about their characters and their development?

I tend to view the Rachel/Tobias relationship as it develops from this point on out as symbolic of a common relationship problem. Rachel is in denial about Tobias, and wants him to be something that he isn't at heart. In the same way that the characters say that she was always a warrior at heart but never would have had a way of dealing with a 'normal' life, Tobias was also never complete until he became a hawk. After that, though struggled some with his 'predator/human' duality, he finally found a satisfying sense of 'who he was' that he never would have found as just a human. Rachel spends a lot of time in denial of the full aspect of who he is, but as we saw when he was losing his identity to the dinosaur mind she was ultimately willing to accept him as he was then loose him entirely. I think this struggle to get over expectations and accept someone for who they are is something common (in a much less bizarre form) in many relationships.

8) Anything else?

My only other point of discussion is my time-travel rant, that makes this story not-quite-work in the way that a satisfying sci-fi does. I mean, I do certainly understand that with time travel authors (movie writers, ect.) struggle to make something that actually works or provide a way for time travel to function so that there aren't paradoxes and such. I know it isn't easy to do. However, when having that convenient literary device of "I don't know the details of how technology works precisely, but have a general idea of how it works in practice" that Ax provides, it usually isn't hard to provide something that works within its limited scope, and this one doesn't.

His insight that goes along the lines of "our actions here are already part of our own past, we don't have to worry about what we do since it is already a necessary part of our own past" lets us know that we have a single, solid time-line. We don't have to worry about their actions creating a paradox, it should ultimately be impossible for any of their actions to 'change' anything because it already happened as part of history of their 'present' universe. It's a good solid use of "whatever happened has already happened, if you know that it already happened then you know that it isn't possible for you to change it, so trying to do so will necessarily fail one way or another"

...Except that what they did doesn't work within this setting at all because of this: Unless humans came to exist without the Ani's time-traveling, the would have been able to come into existence to go back in time cause their existance. It's kind ove the opposite of a paradox, it is a contradiction not because it stops itself from happening but because the change in the past couldn't possibly happen without a present that is its effect. That is to say, how could the group go back in time to cause humanity to be born unless humanity had already been born?

A better "Well Jake, I wasn't paying attention in class, but I think it might work like this" explanation that the author could have had Ax give is that the time-line isn't a single, solid time-line where "Whatever we do has already happened" but is a flexible, self-correcting universal time-line. He might have said something along the lines of "In some original the comet never hit Earth, the crab-people and the ant people went about their war in some original way though we don't know what the outcome would have been. Then something must have sent some of the crab people back in time and their actions caused the ant-people to flee and create the comet-catastrophe. Then, since the crab people from the original time-line didn't survive long enough to go back in time and cause the catastrophe, and humans rose in their place there would be a paradox: the catastrophe couldn't occur without modern crab people from a catastrophe free time-line to go back and cause it to occur. Therefore, the universal time-line corrected itself by setting up a situation to send us back in time and cause the catastrophe without the need for a catastrophe-free time-line."

OK, kinda complex I admit, but anyone who is too young to figure out the multi-timeline paths and worry about the causality of it all already had to breeze over the brief discussions Ax caused the Ani's to bang their heads against the wall over; this way at least creates a type of time-travel that works.
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Offline Gafrash

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Re: Group Re-Read: MegaMorphs 2, In The Time of the Dinosaurs
« Reply #28 on: July 07, 2010, 06:35:26 PM »
Time travelling stories screw with my mind... It's why I choose not to get bogged down on them... ;D
It does make me wonder why a majority of authors go for these types of stories, if they are redundant on the main storyline...

I mean, when I re-read this book, I looked out more for its character moments. And there were relevant material to the main series. Such as Cassie's T-Rex morph episode and, yeah, the Tobias/Rachel relation. But either than that and the cool insights on morphing dinos... Not much else for me.  

« Last Edit: July 21, 2010, 10:34:12 PM by Gafrash »

Offline zaprowsdower

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Re: Group Re-Read: MegaMorphs 2, In The Time of the Dinosaurs
« Reply #29 on: July 07, 2010, 07:49:51 PM »
The way I see it the book accomplishes exactly what it sets out to do-the Animorphs go back in time and have an adventure with dinosaurs. It puts our heroes into a real wilderness survival story and introduces whole new aliens.
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