Richard's Animorphs Forum
Animorphs Section => Animorphs Forum Classic => Topic started by: Chad32 on September 05, 2008, 03:14:36 PM
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I have mentioned this in other threads, but I have yet to make a thread specifically about this. Cassie let Tom get away with the Escafil Device, and I can't fathom why some fans would not hold that against her.
There were good things that came from it. However, any possitive thing that would come from that, could have been done while being done differently. If they had used the Chee, or PM Yeerks, to spread the word that the Animorphs were willing to give a way out for Yeerks who didn't want to be involed in war or involuntary infestation, then there would be Yeerks coming to become nothlits. It would make a positive effect, without the downside of Visser Three having the device, or being worried about squads of morph capable controllers attacking the Animorphs.
In the moment when Cassie decided to let Tom go, she was afraid that if Jake killed Tom he would be changed. However, he already wasn't the same Jake she once knew. Plus he wound up killing Tom anyway. Of course, this was to make sure he didn't become another Eva. Better dead than a controller: The Ani motto.
Some say that it was Applegate's way of making hope seem as lost as possible, but even so that would still count as a dumb move by Cassie. Nothing good came from doing that, that couldn't have been gained some other way.
One thing that bothers me, is that when Jake excludes Cassie from a war meeting, Tobias says that's "beyond wrong". I very much disagree with this. I'm glad the group was willing to forgive her for that, but when someone breaks another's trust, it's a big issue.
Don't get me wrong, though. I don't hate Cassie, and I'm glad Jake still had feelings for her. It's good that their relationship is strong enough to overcome a large mistake.
I do hold it against her. Some people don't, and that confuses me. She could have helped Jake take Tom down. Between the two of them, they could have subdued a Human Controller without killing him, even though he had a dracon beam. Some say there may have been enemies in the area, but I don't think there were. I think most everyone else was back fighting the battle with the other Anis and the auxilaries.
I'd like to speak about this in detail, on topic. Then maybe put it to rest.
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Personally? Im furious with her. I see the entire bad outcome at the end as a combination of her and Erek.
I can, over time, learn to respect people with pacifistic ideals, but when it comes down to war, I have a hard time forgiving things such as Cassie or Ereks actions.
In fact in the end its all Cassies fault, and she did much more harm to Jake than good, because in saving him from killing his brother personally, she condemened him to;
A; forcing his cousin to die in order to kill him
B; commiting genocide
C; taking the animorphs public
D; getting a US military battalion killed
E; getting a ton of Hork Bajir killed
F; getting the auxiliary animorphs killed
G; getting their home town bombed off the face of the earth
Also, she condemned Tobias to depression, though thats partly his fault for allowing it to control him.
In short, Jake would have alot less on his concience and many many many fewer people would have been dead if she hadnt been so stupid.
And if Id been Jake, right then, right there, the temptation to do to her what they *should* have done to David the first go round would've been very hard to resist.
And yes, excluding her from the war meetings was not only right, it wasnt *enough*
They should have excluded both her and Erek from 'active duty' the moment their pacifistic issues became problematic.
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You guys make lots of good points, however, I still feel that Cassie did the right thing. And the reason behind that...well honestly, I don't have a good reason.
well there's my thoughts.
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Hey Daphnes, did you ever get my email?
Personally? Im furious with her. I see the entire bad outcome at the end as a combination of her and Erek.
I can, over time, learn to respect people with pacifistic ideals, but when it comes down to war, I have a hard time forgiving things such as Cassie or Ereks actions.
In fact in the end its all Cassies fault, and she did much more harm to Jake than good, because in saving him from killing his brother personally, she condemened him to;
A; forcing his cousin to die in order to kill him
B; commiting genocide
C; taking the animorphs public
D; getting a US military battalion killed
E; getting a ton of Hork Bajir killed
F; getting the auxiliary animorphs killed
G; getting their home town bombed off the face of the earth
Also, she condemned Tobias to depression, though thats partly his fault for allowing it to control him.
In short, Jake would have alot less on his concience and many many many fewer people would have been dead if she hadnt been so stupid.
And if Id been Jake, right then, right there, the temptation to do to her what they *should* have done to David the first go round would've been very hard to resist.
And yes, excluding her from the war meetings was not only right, it wasnt *enough*
They should have excluded both her and Erek from 'active duty' the moment their pacifistic issues became problematic.
You make an interesting point. But do you really think Jake should have killed his brother? Should he have been the one to do it? Do you recall a scene in Book 30 i think, The Reunion. Marco cast his own b.s. aside to target his mom. He was actually going to kill his mother. He charged straight at her in hopes of knocking her off the mountain so she'd fall to her death. But do you remember what happened next? Jake, yes, JAKE interfered and tackled him. He stopped Marco from killing his own mother b/c he knew it would destroy Marco. Marco the comedian. The ruthless strategist. I think we can argue that Marco was mentally stronger than Jake. He'd already dealt with his mother's death, and seeing her return was just as painful. Had it been Jake in his place, I think Jake would've broke apart.
So Cassie stopping Jake from killing his own brother was justifiable. Jake himself had already done the exact same thing. Cassie saved him because they needed him. It wouldve messed him up. Remember what Rachel told Marco in the final scene of The Reunion. Marco didnt know what to do. He wasn't sure if he could survive the situation and end up killing his mother. He wondered about that choice. And Rachel said, "Well, I'd hope that someone would come along and take that choice away from me." Which is exactly what Cassie did.
I think Cassie did the right thing. You can be mad with her all you want, but she was essential to them winning the war against the Yeerks. A war that was able to offer hope in the end to other species. Rachel made a great sacrifice, and it mattered in the end. Jake wouldve been messed up if he had to kill Tom, especially right after losing his whole family to the Yeerks. But we can also say it was K.A.'s way of leaving our Animorph heroes with no hope and in their darkest hour. Its the way the story had to go. Its called Drama.
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Well, if Cassie had made that mistake, then hey, it just shows how real the characaters are. They make mistakes, and despite being battle-hardened, they were still young! Some mistakes have very costly consequences, and we can't see all of them.
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I suppose she did the same thing for Jake that Jake did for Marco, but it wasn't exactly the same thing. Tom was also running off with the box. That's the part that makes what she did wrong. As good as her intentions were, good ententions does not make something right.
I guess having them make mistakes does make them more real. Of course, I would still hold mistakes against them.
Offtopic: Filmstu, I haven't received a recent email from you. Not since Invasion: Part Two on the 13th of last month.
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From a story perspective, it was an excellent choice on the authors part ;)
But from a character perspective, you also have to remember that at this point Tom would rather die to kill that Yeerk, than live and eventually take part in the death of many many more people.
The ethics are very very difficult, and so in this KA succeded in creating great questions.
For Cassie, in that moment, with no way to know the future, that was the right thing to do.
Just as for Jake, it was the right thing to try to kill Tom, and allow himself to be stopped by Cassie.
Yet on a global and more general scale, it was entirely wrong of her to interfere.
She had no right.
Dontcha love the twisted nature of wartime ethics?
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I think she went about the situation all wrong. If she wanted to stop Jake from crossing that line, fine, but she could at least have taken Tom down. These kids have had dozens of dracon beams pointed at them countless times, whats one scared controller gonna do to a human wolf? It would be so easy for her to sneak up on him and take the box, maybe even knock him and out and try to starve the yeerk out.
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I could've sworn she was in owl morph at the time. Wasnt she? I wouldnt think an owl was much of a threat against a human. Especially a human-controller.
Im probably wrong about the owl thing though
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I just checked, she was in wolf morph. Here:
"Now, watching the lion’s wild golden mane emerge from James’s own thick golden
hair, the morph seemed somehow appropriate.
<We’re going in, Cassie,> he said. <With or without you. Are you going to help us?>
I nodded, closed my eyes, and went wolf."
From which point they went and fought the Visser and his troops.
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Lol. Yeah, i just did a quick reread myself and checked.
All i have to say is WOW. What an intense scene. I didnt remember it like that when i read it all those years ago, about 7 years ago.
Yeah, Cassie easily could've taken Tom down herself. She had the power. He had the cube. And it just seemed really easy for her to do. I'd have hoped there'd have been more of a physical struggle, and more of an accident that Tom got away with the cube.
Cassie did betray them if you look at it from the perspective of the war and the resistance fighting it. But from an overall viewpoint, she did what she thought was right. Her decision was made on such a grand scale. No wonder Ax flipped out when he realized what her true motive had been in letting the Yeerks have the morphing cube. She saw beyond the war itself. She used morality, hopeful strategy and her heart. And it worked.
Still, I do wish it had been more of an accident that she let the Yeerks take the cube, only to realize that she allowed it to happen. What Cassie did was truly powerful. And what made it even more interesting was that she had no regrets. As if she could see why her teammates were pissed at her, but couldnt really understand why.
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I don't remember how Ax exactly flipped out, since I haven't read that area recently, but I was certain he was upset. She used the excuse that it helped the Yeerks who were slaves of the Empire, but she wasn't even thinking about that at the time she did it. She had the power to save Tom and the box, but she refused. And like I said, any benefit that scenario had could have been achieved through more controlled means.
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Part of Ax flipping out definitely involved his 'near betrayal' in talking to Andalite High Command without telling the others.
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i think that was a dangerous part on the part of Cassie. I mean, so many things could have gone wrong. good intentions don't have the best results all the time.
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It's just that she acted like she only had two choices: Let Tom get away, or let Jake kill him. Little Ms. Intuition somehow didn't realize that a wolf and a tiger can subdue a Human controller with a Dracon beam without killing him.
There was that third option, and not taking it was what made her decision wrong, on all levels.
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well she managed to cause a huge split in the yeerk forces by letting tom go
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well she managed to cause a huge split in the yeerk forces by letting tom go
They could have caused a huge split in the Yeerk forces without giving away the box. They could have just sent word around via the PM Yeerks or chee, offering to let Yeerks become nothlits if they want to stop fighting in the war.
I already mentioned that. Whatever good came of what she did could have been achieved through other means.
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thank goodness it worked.
could you imagine what would happen if it backfired?
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thank goodness it worked.
could you imagine what would happen if it backfired?
It probably would have been close to the same, except without seeing some Yeerks trying to stay until their time was up. I doubt it would have been very different.
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So in the end, the problem is that Cassie was never cut out to fight a war when it reached that level, and she shouldnt have even been there.
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well..you have those in every war.
But yeah, Cassie's plan did work....so i guess it doesn't matter too much....cuz what's past is past...
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So in the end, the problem is that Cassie was never cut out to fight a war when it reached that level, and she shouldnt have even been there.
Are you serious? She shouldnt have even been there in the first place? Im guessing she's just not cut out to be an Animorph? She could have taken down Tom without killing him, but she didnt. Simple as that. Initially it was about saving Jake. But she soon knew it would change the tides of the war. That was why she didnt go after Tom. It was indeed a betrayal, but a good sacrifice. Something that worked out well. Funny how the first time i read it years ago I never saw it as a betrayal. I thought she had good reasoning.
She was an essential character, and things would not have worked had she not been there. All kinds of people hate Cassie and it still baffles me. Just because she was overly moralistic doesn't mean you'll never have those kinds of people in a war. You have to explore the many different sides and personas. Cut the chick some slack.
But then again, it is just a book series. No big deal.
Oh yea, If i read it correctly, Ax almost fainted when Cassie revealed why she let Tom take the morphing cube. Thats what i meant by flipping out, and his actions that followed.
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So in the end, the problem is that Cassie was never cut out to fight a war when it reached that level, and she shouldnt have even been there.
Are you serious? She shouldnt have even been there in the first place? Im guessing she's just not cut out to be an Animorph? She could have taken down Tom without killing him, but she didnt. Simple as that. Initially it was about saving Jake. But she soon knew it would change the tides of the war. That was why she didnt go afte Tom. It was indeed a betrayal, but a good sacrifice that worked out. Come on, if Cassie was the one to make the choice then it would mos def work out.
She was an essential character, and things would not have worked had she not been there. All kinds of people hate Cassie and it still baffles me. Just because she was overly moralistic doesn't mean you'll never have those kinds of people in a war. You have to explore the many different sides and personas. Cut the chick some slack.
But then again, it is just a book series. No big deal.
Oh yea, If i read it correctly, Ax almost fainted when Cassie revealed why she let Tom take the morphing cube. Thats what i meant by flipping out, and his actions that followed.
It was still the wrong thing to do. I won't repeat myself anymore, as I don't have time. I haven't heard one reason for her defense that I haven't countered.
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Agreed.
Though, as a character, looking at it from the perspective of it being a book series, she was indespensible. :)
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Everybody likes to beat up on Cassie... >:(
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Yes, she was important. I believe that maybe KA overplayed her specialness sometimes, but maybe Cassie was her favorite character.
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actually, she says she has a different favourite character each book, or something like that.
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well she managed to cause a huge split in the yeerk forces by letting tom go
They could have caused a huge split in the Yeerk forces without giving away the box. They could have just sent word around via the PM Yeerks or chee, offering to let Yeerks become nothlits if they want to stop fighting in the war.
I already mentioned that. Whatever good came of what she did could have been achieved through other means.
the one who betrayed visser1 was tom, nobody else in the yeerk forces took the initiative.
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Very true, but just never forget that Tom's Yeerk did it entirely out of evil selfish ambitions.
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You shouldn't isolate that climactic moment when Cassie lets Tom escape and ignore the rest of the book, how the writer set up Cassie's decision.
Jake was depressed and was no longer being a good leader. Cassie didn't know how to handle the situation. She calls him a coward then regrets it immediately. Subsequently she bites her tongue and follows Jake as he makes morally questionable decisions and gives morally questionable orders. She holds back because she knows Jake isn't in the mood to deal with her questioning his judgment. She gets frustrated with the naivete her parents display among the Hork-Bajir, but her dad calls her out on the immoral way he thinks she and the Animorphs have been acting. Cassie gets frustrated and flies away without saying goodbye, afterwards realizing that it's possible she won't see him again.
If you isolate that one moment when she stops Jake, you overlook how the whole book was setting up that there was all this pressure building up on Cassie, coloring her judgment in that crucial moment.
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Cassie may be the strongest Animorphs after all. She remains pretty consistent to her ideals and morals throughout the series. Even under all that pressure, I think she still stuck to her guns and made the choice she believe was right. I don't think we'll ever know how much goes on inside her head, but I think she represents the strongest aspects of Humanity. She is like Allison Kim, or of those sort.
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You shouldn't isolate that climactic moment when Cassie lets Tom escape and ignore the rest of the book, how the writer set up Cassie's decision.
Jake was depressed and was no longer being a good leader. Cassie didn't know how to handle the situation. She calls him a coward then regrets it immediately. Subsequently she bites her tongue and follows Jake as he makes morally questionable decisions and gives morally questionable orders. She holds back because she knows Jake isn't in the mood to deal with her questioning his judgment. She gets frustrated with the naivete her parents display among the Hork-Bajir, but her dad calls her out on the immoral way he thinks she and the Animorphs have been acting. Cassie gets frustrated and flies away without saying goodbye, afterwards realizing that it's possible she won't see him again.
If you isolate that one moment when she stops Jake, you overlook how the whole book was setting up that there was all this pressure building up on Cassie, coloring her judgment in that crucial moment.
Hey Dan. I don't see you around as much as I thought I might.
You may be correct. I haven't read that book in so long (or much of the final arc), that I don't remember much besides that part. I guess with all that pressure, she didn't see the third option.
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You shouldn't isolate that climactic moment when Cassie lets Tom escape and ignore the rest of the book, how the writer set up Cassie's decision.
Jake was depressed and was no longer being a good leader. Cassie didn't know how to handle the situation. She calls him a coward then regrets it immediately. Subsequently she bites her tongue and follows Jake as he makes morally questionable decisions and gives morally questionable orders. She holds back because she knows Jake isn't in the mood to deal with her questioning his judgment. She gets frustrated with the naivete her parents display among the Hork-Bajir, but her dad calls her out on the immoral way he thinks she and the Animorphs have been acting. Cassie gets frustrated and flies away without saying goodbye, afterwards realizing that it's possible she won't see him again.
If you isolate that one moment when she stops Jake, you overlook how the whole book was setting up that there was all this pressure building up on Cassie, coloring her judgment in that crucial moment.
I couldn't agree with you more. The book was set up that way. And the was pressure on Cassie. I think this sorta justifies that Cassie was sort of 2nd-in-Command, Jake's lieutenant. She felt responsible, especially for Jake's lack of leadership, and she took on that responsibility, she tried to make up for what he couldn't. She did what she could, she really tried. And when it came down to making the Ultimate decision, she chose with what she "saw"
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I think it's K.A.'s fault. She ran out of good ideas so she came up with an end. The end!
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I think Cassie always knew the morphing cube was the answer but she knew that her friends and the andalites would never agree to grant morphing ability to the enemy, period. But It would've been too big of a risk if a plan like that had backfired. How would you even hope to implement it? The Animorphs didn't even really trust the rebels, except for Aflan. I think when Cassie saw Tom running away with the cube, she knew that was the only chance to make the others see the possibilities. It was a completely stupid and risky thing to do but ultimately it was her choice that ended the war.
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How would you implement it? Well, you could spread word through the YPM Yeerks that if anyone wanted out of the war they could be given morphing ability. Any Yeerk that wants out can meet somewhere to be given morphing ability, and become any nothlit they want. The Anis could also do this for the Hork-Bajir controllers captured by the Free Hork-Bajir.
This way, the Anis retain control of the cube, and any benefit of giving the Yeerks morphing ability will be gained without the drawback of the enemy having morphing ability.
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I think Cassie always knew the morphing cube was the answer but she knew that her friends and the andalites would never agree to grant morphing ability to the enemy, period. But It would've been too big of a risk if a plan like that had backfired. How would you even hope to implement it? The Animorphs didn't even really trust the rebels, except for Aflan. I think when Cassie saw Tom running away with the cube, she knew that was the only chance to make the others see the possibilities. It was a completely stupid and risky thing to do but ultimately it was her choice that ended the war.
I don't think it was a premeditated act. More like in the heat of the moment Cassie acted based on her instinct, her perception of who she was, who Jake was, her perception of morality and her understanding of the enemy.
There was actually a deleted scene from the end of the book. The book ends with Cassie saying she knew somehow that letting Tom escape was somehow the right thing to do. Immediately after that, in the full version of the scene, she loses that confidence and pretty much goes, "What the hell did I just do?"
The deleted scene also included Cassie concluding that Tobias had chosen to be trapped as a hawk, that it wasn't an accident. The scene was cut because of a gaping plot hole involving Jake returning to the hospital. The text was posted on the morphz forum I think, a long time ago. I'll see if I can dig it up when I have time.
Anyways, I think it was an absolutely brilliant move on KAA's part for Cassie to surrender the morphing cube. For one thing it was a staggering cliffhanger and moved the plot in a great direction. It also echoed the idea of Seerow's Kindness in an interesting way; the war began and ended because of similar acts.
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Sorry, I just... what she did led directly to the death of one of my favorite characters and caused the other to become a recluse. So for that I just can't forgive her even if what she did in the end paid off. There were better ways to go about it. I think she honestly didn't think it through at all. She acted on instinct, and as has been proven in the past, Cassie's instincts in a war leave something to be desired.
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The Japanese say something about going with your gut instinct rather than your brain, don't they? I can't remember the phrase. >.<
Anyway, I don't think it was a bad thing that Cassie went with her instincts in that case. She's usually been right about going by instinct (#19 comes to mind with the whole Aftran situation, I'm sure there are others). And in #54, Marco told Jake that he needed to make crazy, reckless decisions sometimes, and not second-guess himself.
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Yes but I specifically was saying that Cassie's gut instinct in battle isn't usually the best thing to go with. She's too much of a pacifist for war.
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I think Cassie always knew the morphing cube was the answer but she knew that her friends and the andalites would never agree to grant morphing ability to the enemy, period. But It would've been too big of a risk if a plan like that had backfired. How would you even hope to implement it? The Animorphs didn't even really trust the rebels, except for Aflan. I think when Cassie saw Tom running away with the cube, she knew that was the only chance to make the others see the possibilities. It was a completely stupid and risky thing to do but ultimately it was her choice that ended the war.
And if reread that moment, you'll see that Cassie recognized the setting very well. The dark forest, Jake in tiger morph, chasing a very nervously frightened Tom through the woods....
Jake had mentioned this dream many times, the dream of him chasing after Tom. (Read #6 The Capture), and Cassie took note that the dream had been made corporeal. And she knew the outcome of the dream, that Jake would kill his brother. So she saw a lot in that moment and went with her instincts, which have usually never been wrong.
I agree. It was a brilliant move on KA's part. Tell me more about this deleted text from the original manuscript. What else was in it?
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I think Cassie always knew the morphing cube was the answer but she knew that her friends and the andalites would never agree to grant morphing ability to the enemy, period. But It would've been too big of a risk if a plan like that had backfired. How would you even hope to implement it? The Animorphs didn't even really trust the rebels, except for Aflan. I think when Cassie saw Tom running away with the cube, she knew that was the only chance to make the others see the possibilities. It was a completely stupid and risky thing to do but ultimately it was her choice that ended the war.
And if reread that moment, you'll see that Cassie recognized the setting very well. The dark forest, Jake in tiger morph, chasing a very nervously frightened Tom through the woods....
Jake had mentioned this dream many times, the dream of him chasing after Tom. (Read #6 The Capture), and Cassie took note that the dream had been made corporeal. And she knew the outcome of the dream, that Jake would kill his brother. So she saw a lot in that moment and went with her instincts, which have usually never been wrong.
I agree. It was a brilliant move on KA's part. Tell me more about this deleted text from the original manuscript. What else was in it?
There are two problems with this.
1)Did Jake even ever mention that dream to anyone? Sure it was mentioned to the reader, but I don't remember him mentioning it to her or anyone else.
2)Jake didn't kill Tom in the dream. He became Tom, and Tom became the tiger. So she basically helped that dream become a reality.
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1. actually yes he did in #6.
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My mistake then. I doubt she would remember something like that from two years ago, though.
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I agree. It was a brilliant move on KA's part. Tell me more about this deleted text from the original manuscript. What else was in it?
Found it. It's about a third of the way down the page:
http://morphz9768.yuku.com/topic/604/t/Deleted-Scenes.html?page=1
My mistake then. I doubt she would remember something like that from two years ago, though.
Nah, given the way Cassie analyzes people, I think she would file that sort of thing away, take note of it.
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They took out the answer to one of the oldest questions in the history of the series: Did Tobias trap himself on purpose, or not?
Not that it really mattered in the end, but that may be one reason why he didn't return to Loren in the end. I still wish she would have at least been mentioned after she was rescued, to give some reason why she was returned to the series in the first place. That's another topic altogether, though.
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2)Jake didn't kill Tom in the dream. He became Tom, and Tom became the tiger. So she basically helped that dream become a reality.
Actually, I think that's the point. In a way it was a prophecy. Its interesting that Cassie became a part of it when it was Jake's own to begin with. She enabled it to happen. Things were definitely coming full circle.
And I really enjoyed reading that deleted text from the book. Although I understand y it was a huge plot hole, it was still a very powerful piece that should've been kept in, moved to an earlier point in the story, only a little less wordy.
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I have mixed feelings about this topic.
K.A. plays with the notion of Good X Right.
A character doesn't have to be perfect goodie goodie to be liked. This is as close to dumb and stupid that Cassie will ever get, to me. It's where you can see her sentimental caring side getting on the way of the bigger picture. We are talking about an individual with no question that she WOULD NOT sacrifice a human life for the sake of the greater whole. And that's admirable, thought double crossing to the ends of the whole Animorphs' efforts against the Yeerk Invasion on this last DESPERATE phase of their conflict.
I, too, hold it totally against her, Nohensen. I thought all sorts of bad stuff about Cassie upon first reading this. Crazy. Dumb. Stupid. were words that came to mind along with curses.
But I liked the Cassie-character nevertheless. There was a lot happening there!
CASSIE KNEW JAKE through all those years. Jake, at a deep level, had been fighting this war in the name of his family, to protect his parents and to ultimately save his brother. When he lost these three presences in his life, he felt he had lost his reasons and, quite unconsciously, began 'falling apart'. Cassie HAD SEEN that the boy she liked had c-o-m-p-l-e-t-e-l-y changed. If losing his parents to the enemy did this to him, she KNEW that Jake killing Tom would damn right finish him.
...do you really think Jake should have killed his brother? Should he have been the one to do it? Do you recall a scene in Book 30 i think, The Reunion. Marco cast his own b.s. aside to target his mom. He was actually going to kill his mother. He charged straight at her in hopes of knocking her off the mountain so she'd fall to her death. But do you remember what happened next? Jake, yes, JAKE interfered and tackled him. He stopped Marco from killing his own mother b/c he knew it would destroy Marco. Marco the comedian. The ruthless strategist. I think we can argue that Marco was mentally stronger than Jake. He'd already dealt with his mother's death, and seeing her return was just as painful. Had it been Jake in his place, I think Jake would've broke apart.
So Cassie stopping Jake from killing his own brother was justifiable. Jake himself had already done the exact same thing. Cassie saved him because they needed him. It wouldve messed him up. Remember what Rachel told Marco in the final scene of The Reunion. Marco didnt know what to do. He wasn't sure if he could survive the situation and end up killing his mother. He wondered about that choice. And Rachel said, "Well, I'd hope that someone would come along and take that choice away from me." Which is exactly what Cassie did.
I think Cassie did the right thing. You can be mad with her all you want, but she was essential to them winning the war against the Yeerks. A war that was able to offer hope in the end to other species. Rachel made a great sacrifice, and it mattered in the end. Jake wouldve been messed up if he had to kill Tom, especially right after losing his whole family to the Yeerks. But we can also say it was K.A.'s way of leaving our Animorph heroes with no hope and in their darkest hour. Its the way the story had to go. Its called Drama.
Awesome comparison here, filmstu2005.
You shouldn't isolate that climactic moment when Cassie lets Tom escape and ignore the rest of the book, how the writer set up Cassie's decision.
Jake was depressed and was no longer being a good leader. Cassie didn't know how to handle the situation. She calls him a coward then regrets it immediately. Subsequently she bites her tongue and follows Jake as he makes morally questionable decisions and gives morally questionable orders. She holds back because she knows Jake isn't in the mood to deal with her questioning his judgment. She gets frustrated with the naivete her parents display among the Hork-Bajir, but her dad calls her out on the immoral way he thinks she and the Animorphs have been acting. Cassie gets frustrated and flies away without saying goodbye, afterwards realizing that it's possible she won't see him again.
If you isolate that one moment when she stops Jake, you overlook how the whole book was setting up that there was all this pressure building up on Cassie, coloring her judgment in that crucial moment.
And good point here, too, Hylian Dan. From a plot perspective the pressure was building on Cassie. She was bound to do something. It was her proposal to make those disabled kids auxiliary Animorphs.
Yes, there could have been a better way to do what she 'unconsciously' (I believe) accomplished. BUT WHERE would the story and plot action fit. I liked it for the precise fact that it made me pissed at Cassie. For the fact that I would have done differently. A wolf and a tiger COULD HAVE DONE something more than just letting a human-controller get away with their one invaluable weapon.
To me this was one of the greatest twists and highlights of the whole series. I was gutted by the end of The Ultimate!!!
I remember, at that point, the tone of the book itself had kinda already changed with The Revelation. It was no longer about 'morphing a new animal per title' per si. It leaned more towards warfare kind of thing. But, with The Ultimate, things got the feeling of completely plain desperate for those kids.
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OH! I just read that deleted final chapter.
3 000 000 000 000 000 000 X DAMNS!!!
I wish, really wish, K.A. SOMEHOW fitted those scenes in!
It didn't feel like it would have bogged down the story. It actually would have given a lot better closure to the way the story on The Ultimate ended and given hope to the addition of the auxiliary Animorphs. As opposed to the somewhat sudden ending that we know of. Real let down.
Come to think of it, that book felt so rushed. Like the Ghostwriter rushed it or something. Especially that battle scene at the end. Such an important book.
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I noticed there's an earlier point in #50 where Cassie wonders about Tobias, which makes more sense now. But I mostly agree with what Jeff posted on the other forum about the deleted ending:
You know, I feel like that point had already been made in earlier books. Several times. Like, every single Tobias book Probably didn't seem so vital to Tonya also, which was probably why it was cut. I don't disagree with the deletion. I mean, why bring that up at the end of #50, anyway? I don't remember Tobias's choice being involved in the plot in any way. It mostly seems like a segue to that bit of wisdom from Ms. Morris. I recall from interviewing her for the Anibase that she has strong opinions on the treatment of handicapped people -- which is why this was probably a good book for her to do. But her job wasn't to make such a strong, opinionated statement like that. That's the same reason the ending of #28 got rewritten -- the writer for that one, Amy Garvey, was a vegetarian and made a big anti-meat statement.
Not that what was written wasn't a valid point, but I don't think it was necessary. What was more important in the end of that book was the emotions between Jake and Cassie, and Cassie's confusion over her choice, even though she thinks she did the right thing. That's what the book needed to end on, not on the opinions of the author.
Besides, don't you think it rang kind of false for Cassie? She never seemed to hate the human race like she seems to in that passage.
I liked the note the book ended on without the extra material, how it was so sudden. Something huge had just happened and the abrupt way the book closes seems to emphasize the cliffhanger.
I reread that scene again where Cassie hands over the cube. I noticed that an unknown Yeerk, probably from the Peace Movement, had saved Jake's life in that same exact chapter--that's definitely meant to be tied to Cassie's decision.
I loved how she described the forest, how it was the darkest place Jake had ever entered, and how it would completely destroy him. I also got the impression this time around that Cassie did have an inkling of what surrendering the cube would do to the war. There's that moment when she thinks about how Jake and Tom are killing each other over a box, and she has a sort of epiphany there, it seems. She was taken out of the moment and saw everything, the entire war, in a different light, saw the concept of war as ridiculous and stupid and wrong. All the pressure and confusion she had been dealing with pushed her to that point where she saw the war in those terms at that moment.
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I agree with ^^^^^^that guy. Very well put.
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Why did the plot hole mean it had to get cut? Wouldn't keeping it in have fixed the plot hole?
BTW if Cassie hadn't surrendered the cube and Jake had killed Tom...would Rachel have still been alive? Tom's snake morph bit her and she had to demorph to fix it....so if he hadnt' been able to morph maybe she'd have lived?
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I would bet on Rachel still being alive. Though they would need to find another way to get into the Pool Ship, without Tom's Yeerk assisting. Maybe a member of the peace movement, or if Tom lived he could have pretended he was still a controller. I don't know. It could have still worked.
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A; forcing his cousin to die in order to kill him
B; commiting genocide
C; taking the animorphs public
D; getting a US military battalion killed
E; getting a ton of Hork Bajir killed
F; getting the auxiliary animorphs killed
G; getting their home town bombed off the face of the earth
Also, she condemned Tobias to depression, though thats partly his fault for allowing it to control him.
In short, Jake would have alot less on his concience and many many many fewer people would have been dead if she hadnt been so stupid.
yeah, i think that cassie's decision was a poor choice.
even if some good came out of it, she couldn't have possibly predicted what would result from her action.
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I agree it was a major plot element, but it was unnecessary. I know it's been said before, but as a wolf, Cassie could have run down Tom, tackled him without any serious injury, stole the cube, and ran. It wouldn't even be that difficult.
It's still questionable, that without the Yeerks ever having the cube, would the Animorphs have ever realized that offering Yeerks to become nothlits would have been a major key to success? Or without the dramatic amoral actions that goom just mentioned, would the war have reached its apex before the Anadalites decided to 'Quarantine' Earth?
As a general question, what is the deleted scene/ending/chapter that Dan brought up?
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I think the deleted scene is where Jake takes the cube to someone to give him the power, as was agreed, but it happened after Tom's Yeerk took the cube. Thus it is a plothole. I think there's also a part where Tobias says something about Humans, in a way that makes it seem like he doesn't consider himself Human anymore. That proves what many of us believed about Tobias trapping himself on purpose those years before.
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I find it kind of amazing, considering how proud many of the Yeerks were, that surrendering the cube did so much. I would think that a large majority would want to stay Yeerk. We are not just talking living peacefully, no Kandrona, we are saying "Lets put our hands and lives entirely into the trust of our mortal enemies." I can see the morphing cube dealing a blow, but not a crippling one. Yes, they took a pool ship, but there are plently of Yeerks left to form a formidable resistance.
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this was simply an affair of the heart,nothing could be done.
If we were talking in a rl situation could you bring yourself to do it?
Change the one you love forever?
I dont think you could.
Maybe in your mind it was wrong,
But she did nothing wrong.
The affects however...
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this was simply an affair of the heart,nothing could be done.
If we were talking in a rl situation could you bring yourself to do it?
Change the one you love forever?
I dont think you could.
Maybe in your mind it was wrong,
But she did nothing wrong.
The affects however...
I could bring myself to take the third option. She messed up. Of course I've explained it earlier in this thread. I read the book, and the third option was easy for me to see as I read it. You could say she instinctively, or subconsciously, did it on purpose if you want. But there's no proof of that, that I can see.
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I think she just didn't see that third option.
She seems to believe in a world where things are black and white not all shades of gray.
she only saw what was in front of her and didn't think of how it could back fire or how it could go wrong.
I don't hate her its just she is not a Warrior.
She was basically the only one in the team that saw the yeerks differently she saw them more like people than anyone else and that also influenced her decision.
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Hmmmm...that brings a good point
Yeerks are really just trying to get themselves out of the low-level host that they hosted before. Humans have done the same with land, religion, and many other things. It is sad now that i examine these thoughts But we as complex beings we are no better...
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I mean from the Yeerk's point of view they are only trying to live the way yeerks do.
They feel the right to be parasites as much as Humans have the right to be omnivores and the Andalites to be grazers.
it would be like trying to force all humans to become Vegetarians some might but most wont.
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exactly