Richard's Animorphs Forum
Animorphs Section => Animorphs Forum Classic => Topic started by: Phoenix004 on August 20, 2008, 09:14:49 AM
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In #7 the Animorphs are shown the future off Earth where the Yeerks have won.
In #11 the Animorphs are trapped in a Sario Rip which strands them in the Amazon Rainforest.
In #13 Tobias is briefly allowed to go back and see his past human self in order to acquire him.
In Megamorphs #2 another Sario Rip trapped them millions of years in the past, in the time of the Dinosaurs.
In Megamorphs #3 they travel through time via the Time Matrix to stop Visser Four.
In Megamorphs #4 time is altered so that the Animorphs never met Elfangor.
In #41 Jake ends up in a future time line where the Yeerks are victorious.
I think that's all of them. So, do any of you think that the time travel card was played too often? Not enough? Not described in enough detail?Personally I enjoy time travel in books, as long as it's not done badly, and since Animorphs used it well I really enjoyed it.
My favourite is probably Megamorphs #2 when they end up in the age of the Dinosaurs. Amazing book. However, it kind of annoyed me that it is never explained why they can't morph Dinos when they get back home. Unlike the previous Sario Rip in #11, the events of this book still happened and they still acquired the animals. I understand that KA obviously didn't want them all having such powerful morphs, but it would have been nice if there was an explainer.
So anyway, feel free to discuss the time travel plot lines here.
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When you put it all in a list like that, it does seem that time travel is used a lot.
I would have loved to see how Visser Three reacts to a T-Rex. He didn't seem too scared of Super Rachel, though.
Even if an explanation of time travel was given, it would just be another theory put out. Since time travel doesn't really exist, different people have different views about how it goes. The Grandfather paradox is often brought up, but I think an episode of Futurama found away around that quite easily. If the grandson goes back in time and kills his grandfather, then time changes to make someone else be the grandson's grandfather.
It's a complicated thing that can cause migraines if done poorly. I don't really mind the sario rips and illusionary futures like in 7 and 41. I do kind of wish the time matrix was mentioned in Ellemist Chronicles, though.
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that's 7 out of 64 books. that's more or less 11%. Yeah I guess it was used a lot.
And I agree. MM#2 was the best of them all.
I personally prefer the history-is-written-in-stone one (or whatever it's official name is).
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I personally prefer the history-is-written-in-stone one (or whatever it's official name is).
I think the idea with that is, if you go back in time to try to change the future, it turns out your actions in the past are part of what caused the future to happen in the first place. I think it's kind of what happens in MacBeth. I think that's the story where the guy gets his forutne told, but doesn't like the future the women predict. So he tries to change it, but all he does it make that future happen.
That future that he tried to prevent wouldn't have even happened if he hadn't asked those women what his future was.
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Yeah, it does get used a lot but this IS a SCIENCE FICTION series so you kinda get what you pay for...
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I remember that Futurama episode, that was funny! He actually ended up becoming his own grandfather!
As for what Daphnes said about trying to change the future causes the future to happen, I'd like to quote the movie Next: "Every time you look at the future it changes, because you looked at it." If you saw the future, no matter what you saw, your future would be influenced by what you saw. In some stories, the future you saw only happens because you tried to change it, where as others show the person changing what happened because they saw what could happen.
Honestly, I didn't realise there were this many time travel incidents in the series until I started this thread! ::)
I would also have liked to see the Ellimist talk about the Time Matrix, as do most fans I imagine. I would why he even made it. Maybe because he knew it would be needed to set the events in motion that would create the events of the series?
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I think the idea with that is, if you go back in time to try to change the future, it turns out your actions in the past are part of what caused the future to happen in the first place. I think it's kind of what happens in MacBeth. I think that's the story where the guy gets his forutne told, but doesn't like the future the women predict. So he tries to change it, but all he does it make that future happen.
That future that he tried to prevent wouldn't have even happened if he hadn't asked those women what his future was.
your thinking of Oedipus Rex (sp?), where he is told he will kill his father and marry his mother, so the father casts him asside when hes a baby and because of that he kills his father and has sex with his mother not knowing who they are. in Macbeth he likes the future thats told to him, so he makes it happen.
and thats my two cents
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I think the idea with that is, if you go back in time to try to change the future, it turns out your actions in the past are part of what caused the future to happen in the first place. I think it's kind of what happens in MacBeth. I think that's the story where the guy gets his forutne told, but doesn't like the future the women predict. So he tries to change it, but all he does it make that future happen.
That future that he tried to prevent wouldn't have even happened if he hadn't asked those women what his future was.
your thinking of Oedipus Rex (sp?), where he is told he will kill his father and marry his mother, so the father casts him asside when hes a baby and because of that he kills his father and has sex with his mother not knowing who they are. in Macbeth he likes the future thats told to him, so he makes it happen.
and thats my two cents
I remember that story, but it wasn't the one I was thinking about. Or maybe I was just confused. Regardless, my point seems to have gotten through.
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My brain is currently running while I type this, but I don't think a Sario Rip is time travel; in a sense. It puts you at a different point in time without fully removing you from the starting point, that's why Jake had those flashes of adjacent points in time and space when he traveled a day, a time he still existed, but not 65 million years. When the rip closes you are in two places at once which is why you destroy yourself, where as in time travel moves you along the line, or to a point so a you would 1) not interact with yourself in a destructive way or 2) are a different entity, past present of future self, whatever and ow my brain!
Since time travel doesn't really exist, different people have different views about how it goes
And just because we haven't done it yet, doesn't mean it's not real ;)
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Maybe I shouldn't say it doesn't exist. Maybe I should say we haven't discovered it yet.
Sario Rips don't really make any sense. Why would a colossal explosion propel someone to a different time, where there are two of that person?
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Maybe I shouldn't say it doesn't exist. Maybe I should say we haven't discovered it yet.
you dont think it's been discovered yet? what about the fact that Bill Gates' wife married Bill BEFORE he got rich. or the fact that George Foreman just happened to know that he should sponsor the grill. or how bout the guy who just 'happened' to be filming the JFK assassination
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Okay the energy thing is somewhat true. I heard somewhere in physics that enough energy can warp space so much that it causes it to tear. The rest is all theoretical at this point. What I find interesting is that all but 1 megamorphs book involves time travel. Why are they mega morphs and not Chronomorphs? The best part is that it is such a plot device that Ax never actually knew how it worked since he was distracted by a girl in his class that day. What I want to know is exactly what happened when the rift opens. I'll use the forgotten as an example
1. Sario Rip Opens
2. The animorphs go back in time several hours
3. Since their past selves will go back in time just as they did it will close the rip and they all will die
4. Since none of the events occur except for jake everyone else is a virtual version of themselves in that they only kinda exist while Jake definitely exists
The question I have is when does the sario rip close? Was it going to close when they open it again at the exact place as before. This is all very confusing because it seems to have events ocuring and at the same time not ocuring.
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I LOVE time travel and time travel featured in Animorphs but I hated the big influence that the Ellimist had over events.
I wish it wasn't destiny by the hand of the Ellimist that drove so many events in the series but rather actual random events. I also hated how Applegate brushed off so many plotholes due to her recklessness with deus ex machinas (ex. Back to Before) and stupendous explanations (ex. The Forgotten).
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I totally agree with Yorick. I LOVE time travel as well (anyone read Timeline by Michael Crichton?) and I also agree with that over usage of Ellimist and Crayak. They should have kept that stuff VERY limited IMO. Not that it was awful or anything, but I dunno. Would be more realistic if events happened because of the actual character's themselves instead of being influenced by multi-dimensional omnipotent beings.
Also being the ginormous ancient history geek that I am, I really would have liked to see the animorphs and v3 get blasted back to the times of the roman empire but that's just me^^. And of course the Agincourt battle in 1415 was a pretty cool touch in MM3. That definitely reminded me of the book Timeline :D
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"Timeline" by my favorite author is one of my fave books ever. It's one of those books that you simply could not put down. I read all all 400+ pages in less than two days.
I'm hoping to remake the sh!tty movie one ady and make a much more faithful adaptation.
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Awesomeness...I'd love to see your movie one of these days, if possible :D
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I totally agree with Yorick. I LOVE time travel as well (anyone read Timeline by Michael Crichton?) and I also agree with that over usage of Ellimist and Crayak. They should have kept that stuff VERY limited IMO. Not that it was awful or anything, but I dunno. Would be more realistic if events happened because of the actual character's themselves instead of being influenced by multi-dimensional omnipotent beings.
Also being the ginormous ancient history geek that I am, I really would have liked to see the animorphs and v3 get blasted back to the times of the roman empire but that's just me^^. And of course the Agincourt battle in 1415 was a pretty cool touch in MM3. That definitely reminded me of the book Timeline :D
I've not read the book, but I'll definitely look into it as I love time travel! :)
Going back to the Roman Empire would've been cool, and would certainly have forced my sister to read the series (she's obsessed with the Roman Empire). There are definitely some other places I'd like them to have gone, but I guess if they went to too many places then there would have been a lot less detail in each place they visited (or we'd have had the biggest Animorphs book of all time!)
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I totally agree with Yorick. I LOVE time travel as well (anyone read Timeline by Michael Crichton?) and I also agree with that over usage of Ellimist and Crayak. They should have kept that stuff VERY limited IMO. Not that it was awful or anything, but I dunno. Would be more realistic if events happened because of the actual character's themselves instead of being influenced by multi-dimensional omnipotent beings.
Also being the ginormous ancient history geek that I am, I really would have liked to see the animorphs and v3 get blasted back to the times of the roman empire but that's just me^^. And of course the Agincourt battle in 1415 was a pretty cool touch in MM3. That definitely reminded me of the book Timeline :D
Well what ARE the odds of the Animorphs, being who they were and being as important as they were, running into each other that night and coincidently meeting Elfangor who gave them powers? That alone is no coincidence. If wasn't for the Ellimist they never would've met Elfangor. Cassie the anomaly, Marco, son of Visser ones host, Ax and Tobias, relatives of Elfangor? The only connecting factor was Jake, and we all know Rachel wasnt part of the original plan, she just tagged along. The Ellimist did not create the Animorphs. He saw them across time and space and nudged them together to a certain point in their lives. Thats really all he did. Everything before and after that was by THEIR CHOICE. Well, except for the books The Change and The Stranger.
The Animorphs were just regular happenings all on their own that the Ellimist brought together because he saw the possiblities. He saw what they could accomplish as a team. He's not controlling them like puppets, because not even he knows the definite future, as stated in The Stranger
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Well I did want the Ellimist to have 'seen the possibilities' and 'nudge' anyone together. And I think everyone here already knows how I hated Applegate's make Cassie 'sub-temporarily' grounded crap. And did Elfangor, while I loved the Chronicles, HAVE to be anyone's father?
It was annoying. I hated it.
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Because it makes for an exciting read and gave the characters a sense of origin, especially Tobias. And Cassie being the anomaly was just as creative because it explains why she was so peculiar.
Sounds like you were reading the wrong book series, bud. Is there anything that you do like?
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Um...I guess he liked the original basic idea of the story (you know kids turning into animals and kicking alien butt?), cuz I don't see how you'd start reading a series if you didn't like the original basic story.
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I don't see how you'd start reading a series if you didn't like the original basic story.
I'm not accusing anyone on this board, but I've known of people (some anti-Potter people, for example) who read books with a razor's edge, deliberately looking for "evil" and "satanic" things, completely using lines from the book out of context, whether deliberately or unintentionally.
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ok...those people are either crazy or paranoid...or both.
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I hated Applegate's make Cassie 'sub-temporarily' grounded crap.
Actually, I agree. It was crap.
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I liked the original basic story. Ordinary kids getting extraordinary powers fighting an extraordinary menace. I just hated how everything was predestined and manipulated by an outside force rather than have made decisions on their own.
A sense of origin? What the hell does that even mean?
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I hated Applegate's make Cassie 'sub-temporarily' grounded crap.
Actually, I agree. It was crap.
I actually kind of liked that. Mainly because now, if ever I get my books published, I have a basis on how to cross it over with Animorphs in fanfics. XD Since I use alternate realities, and anomolies in time and space, and stuff like that. So... yeah. ^_^.
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I actually kind of liked that. Mainly because now, if ever I get my books published, I have a basis on how to cross it over with Animorphs in fanfics. XD Since I use alternate realities, and anomolies in time and space, and stuff like that. So... yeah. ^_^.
Same thing with my book/s, only different realms/dimensions (which I don't set up immediately).
Sometimes I wonder if you create an entire world (such as K.A. Applegate or J.K. Rowling) if it doesn't become some sort of alternate reality or realm. Not that it's linked to our own or anything . . . it's something I've casually wondered/
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I actually kind of liked that. Mainly because now, if ever I get my books published, I have a basis on how to cross it over with Animorphs in fanfics. XD Since I use alternate realities, and anomolies in time and space, and stuff like that. So... yeah. ^_^.
Same thing with my book/s, only different realms/dimensions (which I don't set up immediately).
Sometimes I wonder if you create an entire world (such as K.A. Applegate or J.K. Rowling) if it doesn't become some sort of alternate reality or realm. Not that it's linked to our own or anything . . . it's something I've casually wondered/
Oddly I've actually wondered the same thing. Often. Are we just the fulfillment of some greater (or other) being's story telling? By writing a story of my own am I actually creating a world that I could never even know about somewhere in my brain? (The universe does seem oddly similar to the makeup of a cell in many ways if you think about it...) This possibility bring up a variety of moral questions...but would explain why bad things happen to good people (god doesn't know the evil he/she writes is actually meaningful)
But I digress...and have decided that I need to think less...
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;) I've always said God is the greatest writer . . .
But I digress...and have decided that I need to think less...
No, don't! We need philosophers and thinkers in this day and age! :)
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I liked the original basic story. Ordinary kids getting extraordinary powers fighting an extraordinary menace. I just hated how everything was predestined and manipulated by an outside force rather than have made decisions on their own.
A sense of origin? What the hell does that even mean?
Think about it.
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There's nothing to think about. It makes NO sense unless you care to explain it
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Dude, its self-explanatory
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Obviously it isn't since I'm still confussed. Something tells me that you're not answering the question because you yourself have no idea about what you're talking about.
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If that's the way you feel then so be it. I could honestly care less.
Not trying to sound harsh.
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OH. MY. GOD.
You still haven't answered the question! You're just skirting around it!
Forget it. I got all I need to know already.
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I'd appreciate it if you guys didn't start an off topic argument.
I'm assuming that what he meant by a sense of origin was that we got to seem more about the history of the character and how they came to be who they are.
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I'm assuming that what he meant by a sense of origin was that we got to see more about the history of the character and how they came to be who they are.
Why would we need to know any of that?
Best friends Jake and Marco and best friends Rachel and Cassie and new guy in school Tobias take a shortcut after a trip to the mall and meet an alien being who warns them of an invasion and grants them power to stall their progress.
Why did it have to be about fate and superbeings and destiny and all this other convoluted matter?
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Because otherwise it would have been quite a coincidence that of the 5 "random kids" who happened to walk by, one was the son of Visser One, one was Elfangor's son and another was some kind of space/time anomaly. Not to mention that the Andalite they rescued later happened to be Elfangor's brother.
Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if KA added in the involvement of the Ellimist in the "coincidental meeting" because some idiotic fans thought it was too coincidental! ::)
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Why did it have to be about fate and superbeings and destiny and all this other convoluted matter?
*sighs* And it's because of opinions like this that people tell me I'll never get published because my stories are "too complex".
Fact is, some people like the more complex aspects of the story. We like Cassie being an anomaly, and Tobias being Elfangor's son, and the Ellimist and Crayak playing a sinister game. As is the nature of things, other people disagree, and that's perfectly valid. To each his own, and all that jazz. But just because some people don't like it, doesn't mean it shouldn't be in the book. If you start taking out everything that some readers might not like, you wouldn't have anything left.
Writers need to write what they want, and what they think is interesting. If they start wondering "Well, some people might not like the supernatural aspect", and start flitering their ideas to fit the current market, they stiffle their creativity.
K. A. Applegate wrote what she found interesting. Some readers liked it, some didn't. That's just the way things work.
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Well said. The most important thing to remember when writing is to write for yourself, for fun, not because you want to impress people or make money (most authors who do get published don't become rich enough to get by without another job).
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It makes sense that they get together through fate and Ellimist junk, but I could still easily believe it was just an accident. Their relationships allowed for the chance meeting.
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I agree, I would have been happy with the way it worked out regardless of the Ellimist intervention.
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I would've been happy even if they got together because of flying pigs.
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I would've been happy even if they got together because of flying pigs.
??? ??? ???
I wouldn't!
... Unless the Ellimist sent the flying pigs? ;)
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uh no. they just flew in from some continent that hasn't been discovered.
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Because otherwise it would have been quite a coincidence that of the 5 "random kids" who happened to walk by, one was the son of Visser One, one was Elfangor's son and another was some kind of space/time anomaly. Not to mention that the Andalite they rescued later happened to be Elfangor's brother
It'd be more believable of you got rid of the Elfangor-Tobias plot thing and Cassie-sup-temporarily grounded crap.
Okay. Maybe not get rid of Tobias being Elfangor's son but Applegate should have cleaned up the timeline and the circumstances much better
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uh no. they just flew in from some continent that hasn't been discovered.
Maybe they came from a future time line where Pigs have taken over the Earth?! :o
That was me subtly trying to stay on topic! :happy34:
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Piggy's Yay
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I'd appreciate it if you guys didn't start an off topic argument.
I'm assuming that what he meant by a sense of origin was that we got to seem more about the history of the character and how they came to be who they are.
Lol. I would never try and start one. Fighting on the internet is like the Special Olympics. No matter who wins, you're still retarded. (And with that statement I honestly hope I didn't upset anyone, its not my intention. I don't want another 'Tropic Thunder' incident on my hands.)
Thanks Phoenix. I thought it was self-explanatory. Guess not.Why did it have to be about fate and superbeings and destiny and all this other convoluted matter?
*sighs* And it's because of opinions like this that people tell me I'll never get published because my stories are "too complex".
Fact is, some people like the more complex aspects of the story. We like Cassie being an anomaly, and Tobias being Elfangor's son, and the Ellimist and Crayak playing a sinister game. As is the nature of things, other people disagree, and that's perfectly valid. To each his own, and all that jazz. But just because some people don't like it, doesn't mean it shouldn't be in the book. If you start taking out everything that some readers might not like, you wouldn't have anything left.
Writers need to write what they want, and what they think is interesting. If they start wondering "Well, some people might not like the supernatural aspect", and start flitering their ideas to fit the current market, they stiffle their creativity.
K. A. Applegate wrote what she found interesting. Some readers liked it, some didn't. That's just the way things work.
I completely agree. THANK YOU!!!! Said it better than I could. But what that writer did in the Final episode of the Sopranos was just wrong and a dis to the fans that watched it for 6 years, keeping the show on air. Seriously, a black cut screen with no REAL conclusion? That was pretty cold.Because otherwise it would have been quite a coincidence that of the 5 "random kids" who happened to walk by, one was the son of Visser One, one was Elfangor's son and another was some kind of space/time anomaly. Not to mention that the Andalite they rescued later happened to be Elfangor's brother.
Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if KA added in the involvement of the Ellimist in the "coincidental meeting" because some idiotic fans thought it was too coincidental! ::)
Thats what I thought. As the series got older it did seem to be way too coincidental. The Ellimist was a cool and obvious device that could be used to tighten up those coincidences.
Because otherwise it would have been quite a coincidence that of the 5 "random kids" who happened to walk by, one was the son of Visser One, one was Elfangor's son and another was some kind of space/time anomaly. Not to mention that the Andalite they rescued later happened to be Elfangor's brother
It'd be more believable of you got rid of the Elfangor-Tobias plot thing and Cassie-sup-temporarily grounded crap.
Okay. Maybe not get rid of Tobias being Elfangor's son but Applegate should have cleaned up the timeline and the circumstances much better
Lol. Thank God you weren't the author and creator of Animorphs. Or a ghostwriter.
But I do like that quote you have up there. The one about the darkness? Very poetic. Sounds like something I read in "A Wrinkle in Time," or maybe in "A Wind in the door." Where is it from?
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It's a good point about the Cassie's sub-temporal blah blah scientific idiotic jargon thing, actually. It wasn't necessary. Or the idea that the Ellimist set up everything to such an extent that it all just played out the way he wanted. I hated the idea that he just set it all up so the kids met at the mall with Tobias (sans Rachel, being the accident), instead of that just being a random thing that worked out for the best.
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It's a good point about the Cassie's sub-temporal blah blah scientific idiotic jargon thing, actually. It wasn't necessary. Or the idea that the Ellimist set up everything to such an extent that it all just played out the way he wanted. I hated the idea that he just set it all up so the kids met at the mall with Tobias (sans Rachel, being the accident), instead of that just being a random thing that worked out for the best.
Interesting. Who's to say it wasn't necessary? It was KA's story. She wrote it, created it the way she wanted it to play out. The fact that Cassie was sub-temporal was actually essential to the story, since Cassie was such an essential character. If it was your story maybe you'd think that artistic view to be stupid and wasteful. But to her it fit well in her story and helped move the plot along.
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It wasn't necessary, in that Cassie being some genetic anomaly seemed like a cop-out, and didn't really drive the narrative in a way t
That being said, yes, it's K.A.'s story and I don't think she "should" have done it any particular other way. Just personal taste. I didn't like that aspect of the later books in the series, but overall I think the ending was great. It just could have worked just as well without Cassie being some space-time unique being.
The "Rachel being an accident" thing worked, in a weird way. I just didn't think Cassie and her Ellimist link were really needed.
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I'm not saying that Applegate can't write what she wants. She's the writer. But I can post my personal opinions on what I thought were really annoying creative choices.
Also, all I asked was what 'a sense of origin' means, a completely different matter, and you never answered it.
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Also, all I asked was what 'a sense of origin' means, a completely different matter, and you never answered it.
I'm assuming that what he meant by a 'sense of origin' was that we got to see more about the history of the character and how they came to be who they are.
Getting back to the time travel topic, what other times/places in history do you think they should have visited in Megamorphs #3?
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There should have been an Egyptian one and a Greek Roman one.
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Egypt would have been awesome. :D
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Pre-colonized America might have been nice. But I don't see what the Visser (I forget if it was Visser 2 or Visser 4) could possibly find useful there. Unless he wanted to start the invasion then . . .
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Egypt would have been awesome. :D
Especially if they found Erik. He'd be going by a different name, but it would have been wild if that happened.
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Going to ancient Egypt or ancient Rome or wherever would be great but the language barrier would be a serious problem.
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Hmm, fair point. I forgot that the Animorphs don't have a TARDIS to translate. lol. Though maybe Ax could translate for them, once he's heard enough of the language?
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They had the same problem trying to talk to French people but that didn't stop them. Besides, as long as they're in morph then people will still understand them because thought speech is understood by everyone.
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I always thought thought speech was only understood by people with the chip in their head to convert the language, unless I am thinking of a completely different series.
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I don't think so, Phoenix. Ax only could understand English because of the translator chip so he can learn any langauge that's why thought-speak in English.
The other Animorophs can't.
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thought-speak is not in english. it's not in any language. it's like a language of thoughts and images. if you understand english, you hear it as english...or something like that. that was the best way I could explain it.
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Thought-speak is in whatever language the sender knows or chooses to send and the receiver oicks it up as whatever the lnaguage the sender sent it in.
Ax only understand what the Animorphs say in either thought-speak or normal speak becausse of his chip.
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So the whole universe understands english?
besides, quote from elfangor:
almost all species can understand our thought-speak since it works at a level beyond mere words.
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I believe that morfowt is correct. In the Andalite Chronicles Elfangor is able to speak to Loren using thought speech before his chip translates her English for him.
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So the whole universe understands english?
No. Whoever has a translator chip that can..well, translate English
I believe that morfowt is correct. In the Andalite Chronicles Elfangor is able to speak to Loren using thought speech before his chip translates her English for him.
I remember that passage quite clearly. Elfangor said that when he heard Loren threaten him, he didn't understand what she meant because it takes a while for his chip to translate something.
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That's right, the chip can't translate the language until it has heard enough of the language first. That's why in the Hork-Bajir Chronicles, Aldrea encouraged Dak to talk more until the chip started working. However, Dak could understand her thought speech right away.
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I guess then it couldn't technically convey thoughts. It would have to convey images or a more profound version of what the whales could "speak".
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I always thought the time travel gimmick was a little random fun thing to spice up the story. When it's in a list like that it does seem like a lot. Even though it was only a couple times I thought the sario rip thing was overused. Once was cool. Twice and I was like "again?"
Though I can't knock time travel too much...I'm kinda using it myself in my fanfic. *aheh*
I'm huge on Ancient Egypt and them traveling to that time would have been so cool! Especially meeting Erik and recognizing him, but he doesn't know who they are. One of those things.
Or to pre-colonial settlements like suggested earlier. The whole witch hunt thing would have been neat. One person sees them and tries to accuse them of being witches or whatnot.
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I was actually thinking of writing a story where the assertive Rachel gets accused of being a witch and must esape 17th century Salem after Crayak sends her there fpr some reason.
It'd be cool if the Animorphs had met Erek King in one of his many lives in the past and when they returned, Erek remembered them due to his supercomputer brain
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It'd be cool if the Animorphs had met Erek King in one of his many lives in the past and when they returned, Erek remembered them due to his supercomputer brain
Wouldn't that cause some sort of paradox?
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It'd be cool if the Animorphs had met Erek King in one of his many lives in the past and when they returned, Erek remembered them due to his supercomputer brain
Wouldn't that cause some sort of paradox?
Not necessarilly... Remember how Erek wasn't surprised at all to find out they were human, and even seemed to be expecting them when he saw Marco demorphing from spider? How he trusted them so easily? Maybe he HAS met them before....
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A paradox? No. Why would it? Unless you don't believe in Stephen Hawkins' Multiverse Theory.
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A paradox? No. Why would it? Unless you don't believe in Stephen Hawkins' Multiverse Theory.
Let me put what thinking about time travel and paradoxes and whatnot does to me simply:
:explode:
Plus, I know squat about paradoxes and such.
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No, a paradox would be if they went back in time and called Erek in the past before they even met him. Can't really think why they'd do that, or how since the Chee are very hard to kill.
Interestingly, the Egyptian god Anubis was described as a man with the body of a human and the head of a dog. Call me crazy, but that sounds a little bit like the way the Pemalites/Chee were described! Coincidence? ???
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hmm...good catch. but if the chee are involved with that, how?
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Well it probably is just a coincidence, but I suppose it's possible that some of the ancient Egyptians discovered the Chee and thought they were gods due to their strange appearance and advanced technology (which would appear to them as magical). We know that the Chee assume human lives and eventually "die" before starting a new human life over again. If one of the Egyptians saw a Chee "die" and come back to life, then it may well have started the myth of the Egyptian god Anubis (who was the Egyptian lord of the dead).
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Well it probably is just a coincidence, but I suppose it's possible that some of the ancient Egyptians discovered the Chee and thought they were gods due to their strange appearance and advanced technology (which would appear to them as magical). We know that the Chee assume human lives and eventually "die" before starting a new human life over again. If one of the Egyptians saw a Chee "die" and come back to life, then it may well have started the myth of the Egyptian god Anubis (who was the Egyptian lord of the dead).
Good point.
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Meh, ancient Egyptian/Mayan/Aztec lore crosses over way better with Predators than Chee. :( Although the Anubis thing makes sense. I guess.
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Haha good theory there Mike!
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Thanks Claire! To be honest I didn't really think of it until people started mentioning Ancient Egypt on the last page. I'm amazed I didn't think of it earlier since we've always known that the Chee (or Erek at least) helped build the pyramids. I guess that does kind of support the Stargate theory that the pyramids were constructed with the help of advanced aliens.
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*sigh* That theory's been around about a hundred years before Stargate even existed.
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I don't doubt it, but Stargate is the first well known sci-fi to make a big deal about that theory.
It would have been cool if the Animorphs had visited other key points in history and were forced to morph into a famous person of the era. Ax could morph Leonardo Da Vinci and end up drawing the blueprints for many of his futuristic ideas! :D
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Ax could morph Leonardo Da Vinci and end up drawing the blueprints for many of his futuristic ideas!
That's brilliant. You got a lot of great ideas, Phoenix. Ever thought about writing professionally one day? You could be the next Arthur C. Clarke!
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Thanks Yorick, I actually do plan on getting published someday, but not anytime soon. For one thing, I'd have to finish a story first! If only I could time travel. Then my future self could come back in time and give me a copy of my finished story, therefore saving me the trouble of writing it! As long as I remember to later bring back a copy to my past self, I don't think it counts as a paradox...
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Lol...Ax as Leonardo Da Vinci would equal awesomeness. Though as an aspiring archaeologist and amateur historian myself, I find it pretty irritating that some people think it was the work of aliens that gave us pyramids and other wonders of the ancient world.
Frankly, i think that's just an insult to the Human race saying we're just too stupid as a species to ever figure out anything more advanced than like stick throwing lol. And supposedly the so called 'advanced helper races' had no trouble whatsoever building up their own respected civilizations without any outside help? That doesn't make alot of sense to me at all.
Anyways, enough with that rant. And yeah, there should have been more specific time travel in Animorphs cuz well...time travel is like super cool! ;) And Phoenix you ever write a time travel book along those lines, I'll be sure to buy it if it ever gets published :D
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I'm not saying that humans couldn't have built the ancient wonders (some people are capable of amazing things), but I wouldn't be very surprised if aliens did help. I do believe that aliens exist and they might account for many myths and legends, particularly those involving the ancient "gods."
I agree, time travel is awesome! In fact, one of my story ideas is a series entirely based on time travel. Sadly I never started the story, but I do plan on going back to it one day so I appreciate the comment! :)
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Well, I believe that there are other sentient races and life out there somewhere, but it remains to be seen whether our race has ever been visited by them which I strongly doubt (at least in the way described in previous posts).
And actually, one thing they think could have made belief in gods and other deities stronger, was the accidental finding of extinct prehistoric creatures. In more obscure records of ancient writers and historians, there are numerous accounts of ancient Greek villagers on this one island that kept plowing up strange animal bones that paleontologists recognize as extinct creatures from the Pleistocene era. Of course the people 2000 years ago would not have recognized them as such, and would have considered them to be the bones of heroes and creatures of myth.
Also there's a theory that the griffin (sp?) of ancient mythology was actually the fossilized remains of a protoceratops (sp?) which the Scythians, steppe nomadic tribes, were showing travelers passing through the area during the 6th century BC and maybe even earlier. Though these fossil remains may not have created many of the ancient culture's myths and gods and legends, it very well may have given people back then proof of sorts as to their existence.
And as far fetched as this may seem to some people, it's actually quite plausible given that many ancient civilizations carried out construction work for roads, wells, and cisterns; as well as mining for resources which could have put them in further contact with millions of years old fossil remains.
Just some more food for thought. Not that i'm trying to be purposely rude and argumentative, it's just something that i'm very passionate about as you may or may not see in my posts regarding said subject. But then again amazing discoveries are found alot in the fields of archaeology and paleontology and who knows what may be found somewhere down the road? ;)
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I'm not as knowledgeable in archeology, but I always thought that dinosaur bones could have been seen as dead dragons. Some people even think that large crocodiles started the myth of the dragon (understandable especially if you had no idea what a crocodile was!)
Anyway, I'd to discuss this some more, but I really must go now! I wonder if I can blame RAF for my being late for work in the morning?
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Same here about the dinosaur thing. And yeah, the RAF thing should become a viable excuse for lateness to school or work. I mean, come on, it's RAF!!! Enough said ;)
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I've read that dino-dragon thing somewhere . . . but I can't for the life of me think where. :-\
I suppose if your boss was also a member of RAF, s/he'd accept that as an excuse. . . . ;)
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I'm not as knowledgeable in archeology, but I always thought that dinosaur bones could have been seen as dead dragons. Some people even think that large crocodiles started the myth of the dragon (understandable especially if you had no idea what a crocodile was!)
Anyway, I'd to discuss this some more, but I really must go now! I wonder if I can blame RAF for my being late for work in the morning?
I've heard that the dragon is a race-memory of humanity - a combination of the major predators of our earliest ancestors (predatory birds, big cats, large snakes) and a common major destructive force (fire). This was then reinforced by things like: gysers and other seaside phenomena, dinosaur bones (of course), and lies/exaggerated tales.
Sounds plausible to me.
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In #7 the Animorphs are shown the future off Earth where the Yeerks have won.
In #11 the Animorphs are trapped in a Sario Rip which strands them in the Amazon Rainforest.
In #13 Tobias is briefly allowed to go back and see his past human self in order to acquire him.
In Megamorphs #2 another Sario Rip trapped them millions of years in the past, in the time of the Dinosaurs.
In Megamorphs #3 they travel through time via the Time Matrix to stop Visser Four.
In Megamorphs #4 time is altered so that the Animorphs never met Elfangor.
In #41 Jake ends up in a future time line where the Yeerks are victorious.
I think that's all of them. So, do any of you think that the time travel card was played too often? Not enough? Not described in enough detail?Personally I enjoy time travel in books, as long as it's not done badly, and since Animorphs used it well I really enjoyed it.
My favourite is probably Megamorphs #2 when they end up in the age of the Dinosaurs. Amazing book. However, it kind of annoyed me that it is never explained why they can't morph Dinos when they get back home. Unlike the previous Sario Rip in #11, the events of this book still happened and they still acquired the animals. I understand that KA obviously didn't want them all having such powerful morphs, but it would have been nice if there was an explainer.
So anyway, feel free to discuss the time travel plot lines here.
At one point, Elfangor had the Time Matrix. Why didn't he use it to stop Prince Seerow's Kindness?
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When he had the time matrix he screwed up. He considered himself an epic failure, in part because he was incapable of using it to accomplish anything, and had learned that playing with time was exceedingly dangerous
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When he had the time matrix he screwed up. He considered himself an epic failure, in part because he was incapable of using it to accomplish anything, and had learned that playing with time was exceedingly dangerous
To elaborate, he, visser 3, and Loren created an alternate universe. This universe was horrible, and Elfangor wanted nothing to do with the time matrix.