Richard's Animorphs Forum
Animorphs Section => Animorphs Forum Classic => Topic started by: EscafilDevice on July 10, 2008, 10:30:07 AM
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I've been doing a lot of thinking about the Animorphs ending, how much I hated it, how much I hated that push for Remnants at the end, and all that jazz.
What if The One were like a reset button?
I thought #41 was dumb and pointless the first time I read it, but I realized how much I liked it the last few times I've re-read it. You don't figure this out until the end, but it's a test for Jake to decide whether or not he would save Cassie or save the world. He ends up choosing to save Cassie, which makes this unknown being even more interested in Jake.
Let's take a look at the last book now. Rachel is dead, Tobias is depressed, Jake is tramautized, Marco lives a shallow life, and Cassie is like "whatever, I have a new boyfriend".
Then Tobias, Marco, and Jake go into space to save Ax.
Assuming they die, doesn't their sacrifice mirror Jake's sacrifice for Cassie? Jake knew he was going to die in #41, but saving Cassie was what was important. J/T/M's mission was basically a suicide mission, especially when they took along students that didn't have family.
If the being at the end of #41 is The One, it certainly has the power to revive all of the Animorphs. I'm also going to assume that The One is the being that expelled Crayak, as referenced in the Ellimist Chronicles. If you're powerful enough to get rid of Crayak, you can certainly bring a bunch of teenagers back to life.
I was thinking about this because at first it seemed like a really dumb way to end a series. Introducing a brand new character in the last pages of the book is normally really stupid, especially when it doesn't bring resolution. However, #41 was also totally unexplained. It's usually written off as a filler book, but I don't think it's like the Nartecs or Australia - which both have significance, but whatever.
What if this were a way to tie #41 into the series continuity and just wasn't done as well as it could've been?
I'm not going to want to read a wonderful story if it ends on such a sour note. But what if this were a way for Animorphs to have an unhappy ending and a happy ending at the same time? Like they have all of that suffering but it still works out in the end because they come out of The One with their memories buffered (minus Rachel) and resume their lives right after the Pool Ship? Or they've been taken to the Pool Ship with the knowledge they need to win?
Why else would she have ended it this way?
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somehow, the one does not strike me as the person at the end of #41.
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somehow, the one does not strike me as the person at the end of #41.
Who else would it be?
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Applegate should have given a proper explanation for that book's events. Why just not make it Crayak?
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somehow, the one does not strike me as the person at the end of #41.
Who else would it be?
someone completely new. so there are 4...powerful beings. ellimsit, crayak, the guy at the end of #41, and the One
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somehow, the one does not strike me as the person at the end of #41.
Who else would it be?
someone completely new. so there are 4...powerful beings. ellimsit, crayak, the guy at the end of #42, and the One
But that's stupid.
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Applegate should have given a proper explanation for that book's events. Why just not make it Crayak?
I agree with you, she should've tied them together somehow without us resorting to guesswork.
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Starting from the top:
We're not told who Jake saved in 41; he thought about it and "leaped". He may have choose Cassie, he may have choose the world, hell he may have suddenly found a third option that know one ever thought of. They made a point not to tell us so you can decide for yourself what the most "interesting" decision would have been.
Also, I wouldn't say Marco was living a shallow live. He had his family back, and he was an entertainer, something he was always suited for. Shallow life; no, shallow relationships; maybe. But hey, was 19, and most 19 yros are in shallow relationships, even if they think they're not.
Now The One; I'm with morfowt on this this one, doubt it's the same as the thing in 41. Agree with the notion that the thing in 41 is probably what booted Crayak, the One, not that thing. Here's why: The thing in 41 set up an experiment. It made a maze, but a mouse in it, and watched how it found the cheese. It was an observer, a scientist, it watched and took notes. The One on the other hand went around merging with other aliens and demanding worshippers to run his ships. Hardly seems to be on the same plane of power, or mind-frame. Also, where left with the idea that ramming the blade ship will liberate Ax; via death. What it was that banished Crayak is probably a bit beyond death, certainly death caused by a crash.
The One is a method to start over for sure (assuming they survive, which I personally doubt), that's the whole point of ending on a cliff hanger. But I remain firm that it's ties into the story prior to book 54 are completely non existant, just as the thing in 41 is before and after
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Applegate should have given a proper explanation for that book's events. Why just not make it Crayak?
I agree with you, she should've tied them together somehow without us resorting to guesswork.
Now what fun would that be? :P
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somehow, the one does not strike me as the person at the end of #41.
Who else would it be?
someone completely new. so there are 4...powerful beings. ellimsit, crayak, the guy at the end of #41, and the One
oops. I meant 5. the fifth is father (ellimist chronicles) although he's dead now.
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I feel like the One is definitely a separate entity. I really think that although they don't tell you exactly who the thing at the end of #41 is, there are connections to either the Elimist or Crayak. Maybe a third party in their little game that they didn't think was necessary to tell Jake about.
I feel like the One is certainly not as powerful as the Elimist or Crayak.
BTW, anyone else remember reading fan fiction or one of the real books, I'm not sure, where there was a character named Kayarc, because its Crayak backwards?
Anywho, I do think the ending was intended to leave people hanging, not guessing. We aren't supposed to guess what happens and we aren't supposed to know. She had them go out fighting just like they came in, because it sounded like a novel idea. Plus, she probably wrote that part of the plot and couldn't think of how to finish it. So she got lazy and decided just to end it that way. It made sense to her at the time.
And I think there really should be a description on what happened after they rammed the Blade Ship, but I also feel that if there isn't one, that is fine. We assume they actually rammed the ship, right?
LOL. What if they didn't? What if the One stopped them from ramming the ship and instead they talked out their differences?
Point is, we don't know and we aren't supposed to know. All we know is that he gave the order, maybe someone disobeyed him. Maybe he changed his mind and they all lived. And then they bargained it out or the Elimist stepped in.
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If you want to get into technicalities, the Ellimist could revive them is he wanted to.
He can reverse time, so even if he couldn't exactly bring them back from the dead, then he could at least go back in time to stop them from dieing. But then that brings into question the limits of his time travel abilities. What i mean by that is if he could go that far back in time, then couldn't he go back to when he was younger and stop Crayak when he was weaker.
And if he could do that, then he could go back to stop even the One.
Now, does Crayak have the abilities to warp time, cause the Ellimist only has those powers because of him being sucked into that black hole.
Other than the obvious creating another parallel universe, why doesnt Ellimist just go back and stop the One and Crayak.
I know that doesnt answer your question
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not really. if he directly interfered, he'd break the rules.. if he like brought them back to life, crayak will just use his powers to kill them again.
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True he'd be interfering, but if he went back to kill Crayak, then there wouldnt be any rules to break
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I think it's safe to assume that Crayak and Ellimist can't go back into time to kill each other. I'd think they'd put that in the rules.
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Ignore the rules.
If the Ellimist went back and killed Crayak, there wouldnt be any rules to break.
Furthermore, i dont think Crayak can travel through time, so he couldnt even stop the Ellimist
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what makes you think he can't travel through time?
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Because the Ellimist only gained that power after being sucked into the black hole. If Crayak could, he would, because being that hes the evil one, he would have killed the Ellimist off the first chance he got. Also, if i remember correctly, Ellimist says something about Crayak wanting to be able to contol the flow of time, not just see it
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so...oh. I get it.
well crayak probably at first didn't see the ellimist as a threat. he saw him as an opponent he could beat.
or, after he found out how the ellimist did it, crayak entered the black hole himself.
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I think that talk is about Crayak want to be truly all powerful.
Whatever the Ellimist can do Crayak can probably do to, I don't know how, but Crayak is on the same plane of existance as the Ellimist after he went through the hole.
And also, no, the Ellimist can't take done Crayak by going through time, rules or not. You have to remember the rules of time travel here. The Ellimist got his mega powers after being sucked into the hole while....fighting Crayak. If he went back, stopped a lesser Crayak from coming to the galaxy, they never fight, he never goes in the hole, he can't go back in time, Crayak is never stopped etc, etc.
Time travels a tough one ain't it?
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Time travels a tough one ain't it?
that's probably another reason why he doesn't do it. he doesn't know the consequences.
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I didnt think of the time travel loop thing. That was still eons ago tho, so im assuming that Crayak has gotten stronger since then. And, Ellimist had been in the black hole for a long time, so if future Ellimist went back during that time, he could probably take out the past Crayak and in doing so, would allow himself to still have the time travel powers
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We know they are equals, they say so themselves, besides you don't follows the rules of an opponent who can't do anything if you break them. What's more is the Ellimist said himself, they can't harm each other personally.
Finally, if the Ellimist had it in him to smush Crayak, it would have been when he first "ascended" and Crayak was still being a punk in the real universe.
He didn't so he either couldn't, or didn't want to. ::)
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im gonna go with didnt want to.
Ellimist loves games, and this is the biggest of all of them. He could hold that time travel option as you would a reset button and if he loses he can still win
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This thread is kind of off-topic, but I have a question for those of you who disagree.
Why else would she introduce a brand-new character in the last few pages of a series? I really don't want to think that it was just laziness.
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Ok..been doing some re-reading. I kind of think I have a bit of an answer on this topic.
The One is speaking to Jake at the end. It knows of Jake and has been waiting for Jake.
Sound familiar?
Crayak has had it out for Jake ever since he destroyed the Howlers. Drode and Crayak appear in book #48 when David returns. They give Rachal the chance to be all-powerful......
TO ADAPT TO ANY SITUATION SO AS TO DEFEAT ANYONE.....
Sound like the One?
Is it possible, since at the end of $48, we don't really know if Rachel kills David, that David is approached later on by Crayak and given the same chance at ultimate power.
And instead of coming right out and saying it, K.A. lets us presume the One is something different.
Why can't the One be David, after having received the power from Crayak?
It would be Crayak's way to finally kill Jake. And maybe the Ellimist allows it because he planted some other wave before that will finally destroy Crayak's pieces and win the game?
I mean, Ellimist made the Pemelites (sp?), who turned out to be involved in the fight for Earth via Erik and the Chee. He created the Andalites, who are major players in this battle. Isn't it possible he created something else in his travels, that he knew would interfere and end the game?
He is the one who thought ahead every time. He is also ok with sacrificing. Maybe Jake, as an entity himself, was created to be a distraction to Crayak. He was meant to continually draw Crayak's attention while Ellimist came up with an infallible plan.
And maybe Jake and the others are sacrificed into David(the One), while the pieces fall into place to end the game.....
Anyone? Thoughts? Reactions?
This is just my take on it. I'm positive it has no bearing on what K.A. actually thought when writing it, but David was mentioned in almost every book since #48, IIRC. And we don't know for sure if Rachel kills him or not.
Interesting, nontheless. I like my idea, and will stick with it.
:)
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well people assume that rachel killed david in the end, the motive is, however, debatable.
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I think the chances of The One being the being in #41 are so much higher than the chances of David being The One. That's just silly.
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Hmm...my initial reaction to TheFearlessLeader's insinuation that "The One" might be David was that the idea was completely ridiculous. But as I kept reading I realized that he makes a surprisingly strong point.
Not only would the act be classic Ellimist, the fact that they created their own new enemy would be classic tragedy as well. And considering the end sequence that too would be appropriate.
I never believe Rachel killed David anyway. Too...convenient.
I'm not 100% sold but here's to TheFearlessLeader for thinking outside the box.
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yeah the whole David being "The One" is possible. After all he knew the team really well and when you think about it, why would she go out of her way to make a slew of new characters just to end it all right then?
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Honestly, it just sort of hit me. I was reading that book. And then I figured maybe she killed him. But then I read the rest of the books from #49 to #54. And the end was just strange. I mean, it knew all about Jake. It knew everything, and it absorbed things. And it was able to convince "followers" to join it's army. Sounds like the two morons in book #48 who follow David's lead when he is a rat. If he can convince 2 HUMANS as a RAT that they should follow him, why wouldn't he be able to convince others(while being the most powerful being they've ever met) to join him.
Plus, he still had ties with Crayak. It's not as if they could never have hooked up again.
I don't know...things just started making sense to me when I was reading it. It is probably not true for some reason that I didn't read in enough depth to figure out.
But this is my new ending. This is my way to justify the ending. They fight David because Rachel, the almighty killer, who sacrificed herself for the greater good, could not end a pathetic rat's life. And they can win this fight. That is why it is justified in my mind. You see, if it really was David and Crayak, then Ellimist can step in and help the Animorphs out. The End of the true battle (or game) between Elimist and Crayak is never going to come. They are tied together in this endless game. And this is just another battle taking place. That makes the end truly just in my mind. I don't care what anyone esle says. This is my new story and I'm sticking to it.
Who's with me?!?
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That's just not very plausible at all. Sorry :P
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I don't like that ending because I believe that rachel killed david in #48.
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I'm with you! ;D
Why not? It's a far better ending than "Hey look! This new random bad guy just appeared out of the blue!"
And you can make a fairly strong case for it.
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What's wrong with "Hey look! This new random bad guy just appeared out of the blue!" ?
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Explain why it is not plausible...
I have explained why it is, and I would like to hear why it isn't.
I'm not trying to fight, just curious as to why people would think it isn't really possible. I understand if you are saying no just because you can't see it happening or you don't think it's true, but there is no real evidence(unless I missed something) that suggests it is NOT true. Of course, I also know there is no evidence to suggest it IS true, but I believe it could be.
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I didn't say it isn't plausible. it is. I just said I didn't like it.
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What's wrong with "Hey look! This new random bad guy just appeared out of the blue!" ?
Nothing really. Just kinda lacks imagination. It's much harder to bring in an old character back in a timely new context. It shows some effort and a bit more thought than "random unexplained evil dude number six".
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Wasn't talking about you morfowt...
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I think Rachel killed David and I think The One is the being from #41.
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Maybe when they rammed the Blade Ship they went back to book #1 and started over again, and they're really stuck in purgatory.
Or not. ;D
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I think I can bring another semi-plausible theory to the table.
Applegate is obviously fond of Star Trek, and so am I.
I have caught ALOT of references re-reading the last book, and The One sounds almost like the Borg. Specifically the Borg Queen.
The Borg queen refers to herself explicitly as 'The One who is Many' and 'The beggining' in the movie Star Trek First Contact.
(which BTW is about humanity's first FTL flight. and involves a time paradox, specifically a pogo causal loop, many elements mirrored in Animorphs plots)
Also the description of a face that looks like a steel trap jaw and lifeless eyes, that then transfers to a female face, is an almost exact reverse of how the borg queen dies. (her skin is vaporized but her cybernetic skull remains)
Furthermore the word 'assimilate' has been used to describe what happens to those absorbed by the one, this is a *very* borg term.
Lastly using Ax to speak to Jake is HIGHLY reminiscient of when Captain Picard was assimilated by the Borg and made into Locutus, the scene where he confronts his XO (william Riker) closely mirrors the scene between Abosrbed Ax and Jake.
Not saying The One is the Borg, but maybe he/she/it/they were/are Borg *inspired*.
on a side note, a good way to restart would be to have the collision cause a Sario Rip going back to before they blow up the Yeerk pool.
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why before they blow up the yeerk pool?
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Truth be told? personal preference. :P Thats where I began to dislike the plot.
I was depressed with the plot of the series from shortly after they blew up the Yeerk pool all the way till the end.
Im no one to assume the right of judgement, but personally Id've rather seen the cube get lost to Tom, the pool blow up, a more all out war, some goverment guys in on it, but in the end;
A; Tom sacrifice his life to kill the Visser One's Yeerk and Save Alloram and the Animorphs.
B; the Animorphs all survive
C; the whole thing get covered up as part of the terms negotiated between the Animorphs, the Andalite Government and the US Government.
D; Jake frees his parents.
E; their hometown is largely un-scathed
F; no publicity. at all.
G; some kind of transferance, where another group of kids say finds the morphing cube which say was assumed lost in the destruction of say the bladeship.
Something of that nature.
But if you were going to give them a chance to do things different, that would be the best time, because the destruction of the Yeerk pool was the focal point for the rest of the series events.
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That seems almost too perfect. Cover-up woulda been nice though (but perhaps impractical)
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Impracticality, insanity, impossiblity, improbability, implausibility... these things are relative. ;)
Main thing for me is, wouldnt it have been cool to end in such a way as to do what was done in the last books, then RE-do it so it never happened and their world becomes the world of today thus making it plausible that all this really exists and elaving more to the active imagination.
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Impracticality, insanity, impossiblity, improbability, implausibility... these things are relative. ;)
Main thing for me is, wouldnt it have been cool to end in such a way as to do what was done in the last books, then RE-do it so it never happened and their world becomes the world of today thus making it plausible that all this really exists and elaving more to the active imagination.
Oh. I guess I kinda missed that part of your point. Yes, that would have been AWESOME! ;D
We'd still get the controversial ending but then we'd get the happy ending everybody wants as a bonus! It's not like it hadn't happened often enough before in the series.
Still, I have to wonder whether that wouldn't have somewhat cheapened the ending/supposed meaning.
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Maybe. But Jake would still have to deal with a dead Tom, and realizing he would have willingly condemned Rachel to kill him, so hes dead in both timelines and that bites for him *bad*
Plus, imagine the issues left to deal with in trying to resume 'normal' life after what theyve been through?
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Maybe. But Jake would still have to deal with a dead Tom, and realizing he would have willingly condemned Rachel to kill him, so hes dead in both timelines and that bites for him *bad*
Plus, imagine the issues left to deal with in trying to resume 'normal' life after what theyve been through?
Ah! Perfect! And back in comes the moral to the story. Best of both worlds.
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Best of both worlds.
And *that* is another Star Trek refernce (whether by intention or coincidence) ;D
Hmmm... I enjoy writing... I should write something up.....
Im quite versed in temporal mechanics.... okay so obsessed is a much better descriptor.
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Impracticality, insanity, impossiblity, improbability, implausibility... these things are relative. ;)
Main thing for me is, wouldnt it have been cool to end in such a way as to do what was done in the last books, then RE-do it so it never happened and their world becomes the world of today thus making it plausible that all this really exists and elaving more to the active imagination.
You haven't read the Darren Shan Saga by any chance? ;)
I would only like that kind of ending if it was done well. You screw up that type of ending and it ends up sounding tacky, like "it was all a dream" or something. ::)
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Right, the key to a causal loop plot is that the people who keep their memories and/or bodies etc despite the timeline changes have to deal with the fact that what they experienced was in fact *real*, and the choices they made actually *happened*, the consequences were real, and this is a do-over, no one else will know what happened the first time, but it *did* happen. And that in itself is another delima about the ethics of choices and time travel.
You haven't read the Darren Shan Saga by any chance? ;)
Nope, but Ill look into it. Im always after something new to read. :)
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maybe Ellimist and Crayak both did'nt want to kill each other at that time? just like father needed him, He needed Crayak? and also, Crayak had the same powers as Ellimist...i guess as Crayak 'ascended' they both had the same power.
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Uh-oh, someone just dug up my favorite thing to think about in the whole series.
On topic: I don't think The One was a way to start over, I think it was a way to continue the series, if she ever decided to. (Though, that includes starting over if you include the numerous trump cards she put into the series, such as sario-rips, the Ellimist, etc.)
TLDR version: I think that The One was mentioned in 26, 41, and the last book. (Was it ever explicitly stated by KAA that The One was a new character that was never mentioned before?)
You're on crack what's your reasoning version:
In 26, the Ellimist makes reference to the Yeerks being a pawn in Crayak's plan, and then leading the creatures they take over to a force that is even more controlling. "<Earth is part of our game, Crayak's and mine. He would have the Yeerks absorb humans and later be absorbed by some still more vicious species. But Earth is not the reason I have come to you now.>"
It is part of the Crayak's vision to have the galaxy controlled by one strong race, as stated by the Ellimist in 26: "He wants a galaxy cleansed of creation. His goal, I soon realized, is to destroy life. His method is to use one species against another, strong destroying weak, and then strong in turn being destroyed by the stronger still. He believes that there should be only one species. A single sentient race, which would be subjugated by him."
Most would think that means one Master Race that would kill all the other races and be under the control of the Crayak. But, if the Crayak were smart, he could instead control one being that could assimilate all the other races (The One,) and then use the assimilated beings against the rest of the universe, and then he has his one Master Race under his control, which is basically all the races in the galaxy under his command, then he could go back and b!tch-slap the guy that kicked him out of the other universe with his massive army of everything.
Now, as for 41, I do think it was "The One" that was looking into Jake's mind. My guess was that it was actually just a dream brought about his own paranoia/stress about the situation he was in, but I think that Crayak was always able to look into Jake's mind, not only because of the Yeerk dying in his mind, but because he morphed a Howler, which had a hive mind of sorts and was controlled by the Crayak. If The One was a pawn of Crayak, that would mean Crayak could probably give a sneak peek into Jake's mind, which would prompt him/it/them also being able to be heard by Jake. I think the description of the voice, which basically seems to suggest a unified mind of assimilated victims, is enough to surmise that it could be all the creatures that The One assimilated. And it makes sense that The One would say things like "they bear studying" because the entity most likely had no contact with humans until right then.
And as an off-topic to my off-topic, I don't know why everyone assumes Jake chose Cassie, at the end of the book I always assumed Jake DIDN'T choose Cassie, which is reflected at the end of the series when their relationship began to fall apart because he began to finally think about the rest of the world and saving it instead of what Cassie wanted.
Anyway, I think that all opens up the ending for basically an Animorphs 2.0, where it is essentially a war between The One (Crayak himself, in a sense) and the rest of the world. But I'll save my Kelbrid/Andalite/rest of the universe theories for later because everyone is probably reading this and going "you're crazy" right about now. :P
Feel free to poke holes in the logic, better now than after I post fanfics and everyone goes "LOL PLOTHOLE!" :XD:
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Maybe when they rammed the Blade Ship they went back to book #1 and started over again, and they're really stuck in purgatory.
Or not. ;D
I like this idea xD
No, seriously: I hated the ending. Bringing some new character up for ending the book was one of the worst ideas she could have had, but maybe some of you are right and The one was not a new character...
I somehow like the idea that it is David, but I really think it isn't him. Why? Because I really doubt that Crayak would offer him this chance.
In #48 he used him, David was only his toy, in getting Rachel. Crayak wanted Rachel as he wanted Jake, he made it really clear in #27 when the Drode told her she could always go to Crayak. He promises David to get Rachel as companion but he knew Rachel would figure out that Davids story could not be true. She was always intelligent and this story was way to absurd for her to believe it. It was always his plan to get her. David wasn't important for him, he even called him one of Rachel's 'inferiors'. I don't think Crayak would give David that strength, he showed that he didn't had use for him anymore when he left him.
Also I always thought Rachel killed him in the end.
Also I never thought that The One could be the one out of #41. Of course it could be, but somehow I don't think so, but I can't explain why.
And as an off-topic to my off-topic, I don't know why everyone assumes Jake chose Cassie, at the end of the book I always assumed Jake DIDN'T choose Cassie, which is reflected at the end of the series when their relationship began to fall apart because he began to finally think about the rest of the world and saving it instead of what Cassie wanted.
Well, I always thought he chose Cassie, and that's why their relationship fall apart in the end. After this 'dream' (or whatever it was) Jake hat to think about what he would do in the 'real world' and if he really could choose Cassie if he had to choose. And I always thought that if he had some time to think about it he would come to the decision that he would not save her and that he could not let her get in the way and that's way they ended how they ended.
But I guess that's just a matter of opinion. You could be right too.