Richard's Animorphs Forum
Animorphs Section => Animorphs Forum Classic => Topic started by: Visser19 on March 29, 2010, 01:24:11 AM
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So when Rachel dies, the Elimist shows her everything, then she is left alone and says "I wondered if-" and she is gone.
What do you think she was wondering about?? I personally think she was wondering if she were going to live on or cease to exist. Is there a possibility that there is a heaven or some form of afterlife in Animorphs?
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There's a long list of things she could be wondering about. Could be she's wondering if they're going to pull it off, or if something's going to go wrong. She may wonder how her friends will do after the war, and if Tobias will be happy without her.
The final battle was about over when she died, but something could have still gone wrong.
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I'd like to think she said "I wonder If I'll dream". This part always gets me all teared up...
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So when Rachel dies, the Elimist shows her everything, then she is left alone and says "I wondered if-" and she is gone.
What do you think she was wondering about?? I personally think she was wondering if she were going to live on or cease to exist. Is there a possibility that there is a heaven or some form of afterlife in Animorphs?
I don't think anyone knew what she was about to think. Her own thought hadn't even gotten to a coherent point for her before she died.
Animorphs was very big on the "no afterlife" thing. Once she dies, the Ellimist talks about her personal time-line curling into nonexistence, nothingness. She's dead. Nothing left of her, except for the memories other people have. Time-lines can be changed, altered, recreated or destroyed, but afterlife? Nah. Not in the Animorphs universe.
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I never really thought about, but now that I think about it they never really hinted about the possibility of an afterlife in Animorphs. Seems like the kind of thing they could've brought up since they face death on a daily basis.
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There's a long list of things she could be wondering about. Could be she's wondering if they're going to pull it off, or if something's going to go wrong. She may wonder how her friends will do after the war, and if Tobias will be happy without her.
The final battle was about over when she died, but something could have still gone wrong.
So when Rachel dies, the Elimist shows her everything, then she is left alone and says "I wondered if-" and she is gone.
What do you think she was wondering about?? I personally think she was wondering if she were going to live on or cease to exist. Is there a possibility that there is a heaven or some form of afterlife in Animorphs?
she wondered if it was worth it.
mainly what i got from it that she knew that she was fixing to die and what most people who actually come back from death say mostly the same thing when they see their life flash before their eyes.
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I never really thought about, but now that I think about it they never really hinted about the possibility of an afterlife in Animorphs. Seems like the kind of thing they could've brought up since they face death on a daily basis.
Well, I think a lot of personal and philosophical topics were intentionally avoided except for a few specific things. KA and Grant have stated that they don't want to lecture people, tell them what to believe, or act like there is a simple answer. Even when they did discuss 'moral' things, they rarely concluded that most things were 'right' or 'wrong' but just said they weren't sure or felt uncomfortable and avoided them. Still, even though I know they wanted to leave it up to the reader to decide what they think, I wouldn't have found it a problem if the characters did bring up these things and settled on something themselves. If they happened to settle on specific religions or athesism, other beliefs and stances I wouldn't have felt that I was being told what to believe just because a character I like believes it. But I guess it can be more comfortable to be safe about the more controversial things.
As far as what she was just starting to wonder, I know it is intentional that we don't know what it is; but I'd say it was anything but if it was worth it, since she got her question of whether she made a difference answered and accepted it with an "okay." I tended to lean toward thinking the thought would be about those she left behind; how her friends and family would be without her, but I like the "Will I dream" reference :) and think that wondering about what sort of afterlife she had in store is just as likely.
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well...the way she ordered her thoughts "I wondered if-" making it seems like she's not thinking towards the future.
btw, what does it mean when the ellimist shows her everything? everything of what?
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well...the way she ordered her thoughts "I wondered if-" making it seems like she's not thinking towards the future.
btw, what does it mean when the ellimist shows her everything? everything of what?
The Ellimist Chronicles basically begins when he shows up after her death....he tells her of his past, what he's done, his part in the war, his game against Crayak....all of that stuff. He explains it all to her since he felt she should at least know the truth.
Personally I agree with above statements, she probably wondered if it was worth it...the fighting, the killing, the lies...all of that. But the whole thing about her last statement is a last statement that lasts with us all.
But she could also wonder if....the war is actually over? There are plenty Yeerks left all over the universe to start up another invasion, well....idk, but we DID witness the beginning of another war with Jake to the rescue of Ax.
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or maybe its something about tobias?
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or maybe its something about tobias?
Very true, she did only speak to him in her last moment, and she did worry about him mourning her death already....
kinda messed up that she only spoke to Tobias, smh
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she wondered if it was worth it.
No.
Rachel got that answer - "Yes. You were good, you were brave, you mattered." I doubt she would have asked the same question twice.
Also, she wasn't really the emotional type. She knew what she was getting into when she accepted the mission, and she calmly and coolly did her job. She definitely had some regret for snipping her life short (or she wouldn't have asked the Ellimist whether she mattered or not), but I don't think that would have been her last thought. I tend to agree with Azure: she wondered if the war was truly over. Rachel always was obsessed with the war.
Just my 2ยข.
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Well, the conversation goes a little different in the prologue to TEC, so you have to combine the two to get the fullest idea of the conversation. In it, she did ask if it was worth it, but the Ellimist said that he could not answer because the war entirely wasn't over. It was after being told that she couldn't get an answer to "Was it worth it?" that she asked "Did I matter?" so to her at least they were two different things with a distinction that mattered to her.
So she could have still just as easily have wondered to herself if it was worth it, she knew she was out of answers from the Ellimist anyways. I would also say that Ellimist making it clear to her that the war was not over makes it unlikely that she would wonder if it wasover (though wondering about the details of final outcomes pf it was possible).
My leanings are still toward what will come to those she left behind, though this thread has also brought the possibility of wondering what sort of afterlife, if any, was in store for her.
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I always had the idea that she was wondering about the past, wondering if she could have done something different to change the outcome. What if she had been able to keep herself more in check, what if she hadn't gone after David, what if she had been able to pull it off without dying.
And of course, what if she had been able to really get with Tobias...
But these are all good posts, they give me a lot to think about
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well. if you were on the last stretch of your life literally after fighting this war...what would be the last thing you wondered?
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I would wonder if there was an afterlife afterall, and if some guy up there really was going to send me to Hell just for not devoting my life to him.
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I would wonder if there was an afterlife afterall, and if some guy up there really was going to send me to Hell just for not devoting my life to him.
Are you sure that that is what you would wonder? Because if you think that that is even a remotely relevant question then wouldn't that be a little late to start wondering about it? :)
Myself, I'm not sure that anyone can say what their thoughts in their last moments will be about until they face them, but I would guess that they would be about anyone I'm leaving behind (I think that my initial leanings toward Rachel thinking that is probably as much me projecting as it is a likely answer).
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Actually I wonder that kind of thing from time to time, but I would say that at the end of this life is the best time to wonder about a possible afterlife. I think about a possible aterlife from time to time, and only thta often, because I have so many things in this life to worry about. I have so many things going on. If you're lying in a hospital bed (best case scenario, I think) and about to die, then the only possible future is the afterlife. If there is none, then that's ok too.
I suppose I could think about other people, though, but maybe not.
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well, if you don't believe in the afterlife, then you probably would think about other people.
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I'll just have to see when the time comes.
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Animorphs was very big on the "no afterlife" thing. Once she dies, the Ellimist talks about her personal time-line curling into nonexistence, nothingness. She's dead. Nothing left of her, except for the memories other people have. Time-lines can be changed, altered, recreated or destroyed, but afterlife? Nah. Not in the Animorphs universe.
I disagree. All we know about the timeline strings is that they cover things in their physical life. Like the Greek Fates, where when someone dies the string of their life is cut, their string in Animorphs coils into nothingness, signifying death. But it says nothing that excludes the immaterial, the soul, which is not of the body. Animorphs never discussed religion outside of reference or sometimes when the characters discussed morality, but in doing so didn't say that there weren't things like the afterlife.
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I concur, the one thing Animorphs was 'very big' on was not telling you what the author was very big on and only took a definite stance on a few specific issues; otherwise KA says that she and Grant "...hate simplistic answers to complicated questions. And we also really hate lecturing or acting like we have all the answers. In most cases we want to lay out the facts, lay out the issues, and let the readers figure out what they think." (http://animorphsforum.com/forum/index.php/topic,4471.13.html). Avoiding discussing the afterlife wasn't saying "There is no afterlife" it's just that it was outside of the scope of what they/KA wanted to explore with readers.
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well. if you were on the last stretch of your life literally after fighting this war...what would be the last thing you wondered?
If Ax could get diabetes from Cinnabunzuh overload
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well. if you were on the last stretch of your life literally after fighting this war...what would be the last thing you wondered?
I would say that I would wonder if I would at least continue some form of existence or just stop being able to think
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...if I'll see them again.
At least I think I would wonder if there is any form of afterlife and if there is a afterlife if I will see the ones I love again
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Well, I like to think that Rachel lives happily after ever with Tobias and Cassie and they are pretended that the war never happens. But in my little fan fic universe, Rachel is brought back to like, in the fight for Ax (#54) and they go though the entire war again, with each of the Animorphs getting killed. Then they live happily ever after in afterlife
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I think the evidence is safe to conclude that there IS no afterlife in the Ani universe. Now, granted I don't believe this is so in real life, but in the Animorphs universe it is shown you can time travel and erase people from the past, as well as CREATE entire species from literally nothing. It sure makes it sound like life is cheap, not something disposable and common as found in Animorphs.
That said, I do think Rachel was wondering SOMETHING about her upcoming death. Whether it was "I wondered if I would still live" or "I wondered if I would dream" is up for debate, but obviously her death was all that was on her mind.
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I think the evidence is safe to conclude that there IS no afterlife in the Ani universe.
But technically it never said that, and I really don't see how it is that way. Just because it may make it seem that life is cheap, doesn't mean that is no afterlife. Afterlife has just about nothing to do with that.
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I think the really only clue that KAA gave about the existence of/lack of an afterlife came in MM3. When Jake comes back he says that he doesn't even know what happened to him, he didn't know he died. He just popped out and then popped into existence. That, to me, would suggest that there is no afterlife, because he was not conscious of the fact he even died.
However, that isn't conclusive, because the Time Matrix had screwed that whole time line up. Even though he didn't recognize any sort of after life, he technically didn't die.
Other than that, it can go both ways with Rachel. She could have passed into another reality. Or it could have just ended. I don't see any real evidence in the book either way.
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Read up on the tropes The Nothing After Death and Cessation of Existence. If Rachel's soul still lived, it might have just been floating aorund in an empty void, forever doomed to be haunted by her failures and her choices.
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I disagree. All we know about the timeline strings is that they cover things in their physical life. Like the Greek Fates, where when someone dies the string of their life is cut, their string in Animorphs coils into nothingness, signifying death. But it says nothing that excludes the immaterial, the soul, which is not of the body. Animorphs never discussed religion outside of reference or sometimes when the characters discussed morality, but in doing so didn't say that there weren't things like the afterlife.
I agree with zaprowsdower as well. The space-time that recoiled back into nothingness was the time-line that the Ellimist altered to heal Rachel temporarily and tell/show her the things he did. Once that was over he simply restored the time-line thereby returning her to her death. It wasn't Rachel that slipped into nothingness, just the time-line. And as for Animorphs not being big on the afterlife thing? I'm not so sure. K.A deliberately left it up in the air. She's clever. There was the ambiguous case of the spiritual rite of Elfangor trying to ease/soothe Tobias when he was between life and death. Granted Ax said his people don't believe in it anymore, well Tobias didn't even know about it let alone believe in it, but it still happened. To me that was enough evidence that Elfangor is still existing somehow even though he is dead. Also, incorporeal essence (souls) is something that living beings in Animorphs possess and I believe that's what is left of Rachel now.
So, to answer the op's question, I think Rachel's soul is asleep or resting in a dormant state and might just be called into consciousness again if someone (living of course) with very strong ties with her calls out to her, kinda like Tobias and Elfangor. Of course, I'm just surmising here but I think Rachel's tormented soul just needs to rest, she deserves that much after all she has been through. May her soul rest in peace :)
Had to edit this post several times just to make my point clear ;D