Richard's Animorphs Forum
Animorphs Section => Animorphs Forum Classic => Topic started by: Darth Revan on October 28, 2009, 11:53:53 AM
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Since you're copying an animal, would their memories follow?
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No.
They addressed that with Hork Bajir and when they did other humans.
They never got memories. ( I don't know if it's proper to assume DNA carries memories in a cognitive sense. But then again how instinct is passed by DNA eludes me so :-\)
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I believe it's just instincts. The Howlers are exceptions, because they have a collective mind ability. I also believe that awareness and sentience doesn't pass either, so comparing controlling a morph to what Yeerks do doesn't work.
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I agree that awareness and sentience doesn't transfer, and I don't think that memories from the animal you have morphed would be available to the you when you morph it...
Also, I don't think Howlers are an exception. Jake could sense the collective memory, but he couldn't access it... For instance, he couldn't see the memories of the Howlers that were there in Iskoort land with them... Or any memories from other Howler atrocities past... He got the children thing from the instinct... like, they were like dolphins, as far as playfulness is concerned...
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So maybe Crayak just kept him from doing it? That would be plausable.
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Interesting point... I'll have to give it more thought... :-\
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I thought it was well established that they only get the creature's instincts, not its mind (in the case of sentient beings) or memories. The Howler Jake morphed was the exception to the rule because Howler's were designed by Crayak to have a genetic memory, which would obviously be passed along in their DNA.
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you know i was thinking maybe that is why Jake didn't morph teh Howler for battle.
Not that he was afraid of the collective mind though hive minds are scary the Howler didn't seem to have that kind of an intense mind like the ants or the termites did.
I think it was more about how Crayak is connected to his creations. He has the will to kill them as he wishes. If Jake turns into one he becomes fair game.
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Yeah, that was my theory as well. But how kick ass that morph would be if Crayak didn't have that kind of control, huh?
Although, technically, Crayak could wipe Jake away with a thought, it's the rules of the game that prevent him. So there goes that theory. :(
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Sure Crayak had the power to erase Jake from existence, Howler morph or no Howler morph, but it's against the rules of the game. Even if he morphs the Howler, Jake is still Jake and therefore protected by the rules.
It's possible that he could no longer morph the Howler after returning home for the Iskoort world. Or maybe he just didn't think it was right after the difficult experience he had with the morph. The realisation that the Howler's were actually misguided children clearly affected him.
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Damn those pesky morals, :) they get in the way of all of the fun. ;D
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Consider this, Lauren did not get her memory back when she morphed back. I don't think Animorph's really subscribes to genetic memory
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I don't think Animorph's really subscribes to genetic memory
Except in book #33, when Tobias apparently inherited a few of his father's memories. But then, it's never really explained whether those were Elfangor's real memories, or Tobias was just hallucinating. Depends on how superstitious you are, I guess.
But, yeah, morphing and memories seem to be not connected to one another in any way. Even when Rachel lost her memory due to an injury (bonking her head on a tree in Megamorphs #1), morphing didn't fix the problem.
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Like I've said in at least two other threads, morphing shouldn't pass any memories down. There are exceptions in the series that I would call KASUs, like in #1 and #2. Those get a pass since they were so early in the series.
The thing in #33 could have worked, but if it was REALLY going to be accurate, Tobias would have seen Ax's dad since the only Andalite DNA he had in his bloodstream was Ax's.
I believe Jake should have had access to the Howler collective memory when he morphed Howler, and they should have had access to his, thus making #26 about 50 pages shorter than it turned out to be, but, you know, whatever.
I love having to repost all of this in thirty different threads when it gets branched off.
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And then I felt something I had never felt before. Some strange part of
the Howler brain, like an extra sense. My brain had tapped into a pool
of awareness, of knowledge.
Rapid, dizzying flashes of memory. Horrifying images of slaughter,
violence. Not just the Graffen's Children. But species after species.
Planet after planet. I was getting the full, horrific imagery that Erek
had absorbed in a different way.
But this was worse. This wasn't someone else's memory. This was my own.
It was part of me.
And through it all, the massacre of Graffen's Children, the slaughter of
the Mashtimee, the Ron, the Nostnavay, and yes, the Pemalites, the
Howlers felt no anger, no rage.
No one said anything till I was done. And when I was done, I opened my
Howler mind to the collective memory that linked them all.
I searched for the memories we had played for the Howler. I looked in
the great memory pool for some memory of what had occurred on the
Iskoort planet. Nothing. Some memory of us, of five humans and an
Andalite and a Chee and Guide. But there was nothing. No. Not nothing!
Sifting through the collective memory, through the unbroken chain of
horror, I caught a single fugitive image, like a few seconds of film.
Just the picture of Cassie running to me, and our arms and lips and . . .
Jake definately got the collective memory.
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edit: never mind. misread
as for the howler thing, I'm sure at least half (if not more) of you would disagree with me, but I personally feel Jake didn't morph howler because it was a sentient creature.
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lol no actually that makes a lot of sense. I'm sure Cassie would complain very thoroughly about how the Howlers were not only sentient, but had been exploited enough.
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well by disagree, I don't mean it's wrong. I mean it's not a very... acceptable, for lack of a better word.
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No actually, I agree with you. It makes more sense. The same reason why Marco doesn't ever morph that janitor guy again.
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Consider this, Lauren did not get her memory back when she morphed back. I don't think Animorph's really subscribes to genetic memory
For the most part no they don't, but the Howler's do have genetic memory and we know that for a fact. It's how Crayak made them.
The whole thing with Tobias seemingly having inherited small segments of Elfangor's memory is still potentially possible. You might think it strange that he hadn't unlocked these memories before if he'd had them all along, but just because he may have inherited genetic memories doesn't mean he instinctively remembered them. How many times have you "forgotten" something only to be reminded by the smallest of hints?
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No actually, I agree with you. It makes more sense. The same reason why Marco doesn't ever morph that janitor guy again.
marco morphed a janitor?
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I thought that whole thing was some Andalite folklore. Utzum was supposedly the generational gift granted to warriors who were about to die. But, like I said, Tobias had no genetic material inside his body to call upon Elfangor. He had Ax's DNA, and if Ax were going to experience utzum, then he'd call upon his father, not Elfangor.
So no, the general genetic memory thing is not impossible, but the fact that Tobias was greeted by Elfangor is highly implausible considering how it was described.
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... if Ax were going to experience utzum, then he'd call upon his father, not Elfangor.
Yes, but if Tobias were going to experience Utzum, wouldn't he call upon his father, Elfangor?
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... if Ax were going to experience utzum, then he'd call upon his father, not Elfangor.
Yes, but if Tobias were going to experience Utzum, wouldn't he call upon his father, Elfangor?
depends. is it a spiritual or genetic thing? if it was genetic, tobias wouldn't call upon elfangor, but the human elfangor morphed into. and even if it was a new human created from the DNA of several others, tobias still wouldn't call on the andalite elfangor.
now if it was spiritual, it'd be a completely different story...
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Ah, good point there.
If it were genetic, he couldn't call upon anyone, huh?
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I take it to mean genetic
He started hesitantly. "A legend. A spiritual rite, really. Utzum. Certain medicine men believed they could pass memories through DNA. Legend says these memory messages are triggered by imminent death. A surge of strength during the last moments to ease their passage. Ancient superstition."
Why even mention DNA if it's not genetic? I mean, like most "explanations" in the books it's not entirely clear, but WHAT DNA?
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Jake definately got the collective memory.
as for the howler thing, I'm sure at least half (if not more) of you would disagree with me, but I personally feel Jake didn't morph howler because it was a sentient creature.
Good points, both...
I am convinced, Fwahm... But I still don't think it should be possible... :thumbsdown:
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Not impossible, just a bit unlikely. Besides, Ellimist and Crayak are lords of the impossible.
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Yeah, they wipe afterwards with impossible ;D
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Really? I thought they wiped with the utterly unthinkable... :-\
I'm so confused... :(
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No, they use utterly unthinkable as kindling for their fireplaces.
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Ah, yes... With highly improbable jammed between their toes... :)
In any case, I'm not sure how much Ellimist and Crayak actually had to do with Jake getting the Howler collective memory... :-\
I think it was just something that they wrote in to make the story flow better, and I don't think that it should have been there... That's just my little opinion... *shrugs* So... Whatever...
But I do agree with the idea that Jake didn't morph the Howlers later because of the sentience thing...
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I never really agreed with that Creed, not morphing sentient beings. But, that's a different discussion
I think it was explained that Crayak specifically designed them to have DNA memory, so it would make sense that only work with them.
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I never really agreed with that Creed, not morphing sentient beings. But, that's a different discussion
I'm with ya there...
I think it was explained that Crayak specifically designed them to have DNA memory, so it would make sense that only work with them.
That's a good explanation... I never thought of it...