Richard's Animorphs Forum
Animorphs Section => Animorphs Forum Classic => Topic started by: Estelore on July 22, 2009, 05:48:28 PM
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Right after Ellimist Chronicles, #54, and #8, this was easily my favourite book in the series... and it also did the most of all the books to creep the everlovingheck outta' me.
SPOILER, woop.
So they go back in time to kill the bad guy by preventing his birth, right?
Wrong. They kill his HOST. Not the villain, the villain's host.
Doesn't this mean that logically, except for the part about Shakespeareian annoyances, the story would still have happened approximately the same way, with another host? And on top of that, a perfectly innocent human being was prevented from ever living, and who KNOWS how that could've altered history!?
I don't know about you, but that prospect is more than a bit chilling to me.
Feel free in this thread to discuss this and any other logical eff-ups in this book. :)
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yeah I've noticed that for a while too. I think it was mentioned in another thread before... the answer was, without that particular host, the yeerk might not have passed through the construction site... *shrugs*
p,s, elfangor's secret is megamorphs #3
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Yeah, that always bothered me, too. I think I made a post about it in the group re-read thread... Just a sec, gonna go find it...
Well, apparently I hadn't posted as long of a rant on it as I originally thought. :P lol.
7) They eventually succeed in fixing the timeline by preventing John Berryman's existence. How do you think this may have altered subsequent timelines? Was this the best/only solution?
This seemed very iffy for me, actually. Because it's not John Berryman who found the Time Matrix, it's Visser Four. Even if he ends up in another host, he might still find the Time Matrix, and then they have to go through all this again.
Other than that, though I enjoyed the book. ^_^.
Thread is found here: http://animorphsforum.com/forum/index.php/topic,3165.0.html
In the end, it looks like it was agreed that Crayal had put the location of the Time Matrix in his head, and so after the Animorphs prevented Berryman's birth, Crayak gave up on trying again, since he knew that they'd just stop him again.
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yeah I've noticed that for a while too. I think it was mentioned in another thread before... the answer was, without that particular host, the yeerk might not have passed through the construction site... *shrugs*
p,s, elfangor's secret is megamorphs #3
Cookie +1 for Morfowt. :D
I know, I know, sad joke, but still. :)
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yeah I've noticed that for a while too. I think it was mentioned in another thread before... the answer was, without that particular host, the yeerk might not have passed through the construction site... *shrugs*
p,s, elfangor's secret is megamorphs #3
Agreed, that's what I always assumed as well. And I've edited the subject title.
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Paradoxs tend to occur when you introduce Time Travel to any plot.
however, i could go into really high-minded theorical phyics and say about how time is like a bunch of streams and in reality, you are just using a higher demintion to jump into another.
but that would take a full page long essay.
to apply occum's Razor, i would just say that the Ellimist and/or Crayak just hit the reset buttion and make it so that the host would have never found out about that.
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Everyone loves using time travel, even though no one really knows how it would work. That's why it's always confusing, complicated, and sometimes contradictory.
It is sad that the guy had to be wiped out of existance through no fault of his own. Not to mention his parents, though hopefully they find love and happiness elsewhere.
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An ellimist did it.
Otherwise, you get into the classic grandfather paradox. If the whole thing never happened, then they didn't go back to stop Berryman's parents. But then it did...etc...etc...
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Personal theory is that Berryman was somewhere from the vicinity of the time matrix. So while it was V4 who found it, it's because he was sent back to the right place after his demotion.
Maybe with no Berryman he gets a Hork-Bajir host or something, and after his failing gets shipped to guard duty on the Taxxon planet or something.
As they say in real estate, it's all about location location location.
Wrong host, wrong location, no time to find time warping super machines
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Yeah, I agree RYTX, without John Berryman as a host the Yeerk Visser Four was probably sent to some other planet, another assignment or whatever.
I loved this book, it was filled with really serious moral issues and some great scenes. Cassie demorphing as a young black woman in front of racist 1930s Princeton students, modern slavery (of handicapped people no less), some messed up scenes where wars just haven't gone the way they were supposed to, Jake mentioning that Jews could still be considered easy targets for treason...very very dark stuff, for the series.
...plus someone (Marco?) in Hork-Bajir morph, holding a pitchfork, scaring the hell outta some poor medieval churchgoers XD Best ever.
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Tobias was the one in Hork-Bajir morph. That poor priest.
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Personal theory is that Berryman was somewhere from the vicinity of the time matrix. So while it was V4 who found it, it's because he was sent back to the right place after his demotion.
Maybe with no Berryman he gets a Hork-Bajir host or something, and after his failing gets shipped to guard duty on the Taxxon planet or something.
As they say in real estate, it's all about location location location.
Wrong host, wrong location, no time to find time warping super machines
^This.
You know, there's a difference between "illogical" and just not liking something.
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My main beef is why the time matrix never came up again after that.
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Because using the same plot device might be a bit much, and there was already enough time travel/time inconsistencies in the books.
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You would think SOMEONE would think to use the TM to bring Rachel back. Tobias, Cassie, Jake, anyone.
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You would think SOMEONE would think to use the TM to bring Rachel back. Tobias, Cassie, Jake, anyone.
My official theory is that Cassie uses it right as Jake crashes the ship into The One and they sort of get a reset.
I mean, it IS canon-compliant. ;)
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You would think SOMEONE would think to use the TM to bring Rachel back. Tobias, Cassie, Jake, anyone.
Maybe they did, but somehow they affected the timeline in a bad way and they/Ellimist had to set it right. Or maybe they just didn't want to mess around with super-high-tech quasi-divine technology. Or maybe they never considered it. Or maybe Ellimist somehow secured the TM after MM3.
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You would think SOMEONE would think to use the TM to bring Rachel back. Tobias, Cassie, Jake, anyone.
My official theory is that Cassie uses it right as Jake crashes the ship into The One and they sort of get a reset.
I mean, it IS canon-compliant. ;)
That was once my belief as to why Cassie was left behind.
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As a tyke reading #54, I speculated that Ellimist could've at some point made a nonlive clone of Rachel, a genetic body double, and then replaced real-Rachel with the clone at the moment of her death, causing the double to be found drifting in space and enabling her to stay alive. If she had been put into stasis or simply pulled outside the timeline, it would justify her conversation with Ellimist and the piece-of-spacetime-coiling-and-going-dark bit. Maybe she's "on reserve" for a nasty situation later? :P
I watch too much Doctor Who. *wince*
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Butterfly effect: another host would most likley have another identity that wouldn't allow the time matrix to be discovered.
By the way they need to destroy it some how it is far to dangerous.
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I believe it's stated that it can't be destroyed.
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You would think SOMEONE would think to use the TM to bring Rachel back. Tobias, Cassie, Jake, anyone.
My official theory is that Cassie uses it right as Jake crashes the ship into The One and they sort of get a reset.
I mean, it IS canon-compliant. ;)
didn't someone make a Fanfic of everyone on the Blade Ship dying when they collide with the One, and then Cassie using the Time Matrix to bring them all back?
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I believe it's stated that it can't be destroyed.
Correct. It can't be destroyed, or else Elfangor would have done so. He hid it because it was the best he could do.
I really think it's within the bounds of Ellimist's power to somehow prevent people from using the matrix. Maybe seal it within a block of unobtainium or something. I mean, he and Crayak were working together to retrieve the thing, so Ellimist logically wouldn't be bound by the rules of his game in that regard.
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You would think SOMEONE would think to use the TM to bring Rachel back. Tobias, Cassie, Jake, anyone.
My official theory is that Cassie uses it right as Jake crashes the ship into The One and they sort of get a reset.
I mean, it IS canon-compliant. ;)
didn't someone make a Fanfic of everyone on the Blade Ship dying when they collide with the One, and then Cassie using the Time Matrix to bring them all back?
Haven't seen it, but the premise of "One Least Likely" is that Cassie brings David back using the Time Matrix. It isn't as awesome as I thought it was when I first read it - it's kind of evolved into something with an elaborate sub-plot with elaborate OC's I don't really care about - but I think people should read it. It's one of, if not the longest Animorphs fanfics out there.
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one least likely-started off interesting but is basically going nowhere.
That whole book was dumb:
Killing George Washington would make jack difference he was just a general who could've easily been replaced, if you wanted to get rid of freedom and all the thing that george washington fought for you would have to kill:
Thomas Hobbes, John Locke, Rousseau and Thomas Paine.
Or if you wanted to make it really easy for yourself and keep Earth in the middle ages you could just kill martin luther in his cradle, according to Max Weber Europe would never have developed without him.
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How is Martin Luther any more important to Europe than Washington is to America?
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How is Martin Luther any more important to Europe than Washington is to America?
Loads more, actually.
German and Scandinavian rulers adopted Lutheranism to consolidate their own power. It changed the balance of power in Europe. The Pope controls significantly less land than he used to and he doesn't lead armies into battle anymore.
Among many other things, obviously.
Washington's only notable achievement outside of war was surrendering the presidency after two terms.
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It"s more than the Pope losing his power though this was significant and useful to the human race.
Whilst I hate to offend, Max Weber called it the Protestant Work Ethic, basically Martin Luther=Enlightenment=Industrial Revolution.
History is not about battles, but ideas.
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I believe it's stated that it can't be destroyed.
I propose dumping the Time Matrix in the sun!
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But the time matrix is indestructible. Dumping it into the sun won't help.
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But the time matrix is indestructible. Dumping it into the sun won't help.
But i defy anyone to get it back out of the Sun!