The Galactic War: Rogue Element OOC

[Chad32]

I say make a new thread.

I do have another character in Xevec/Derrel that could fill one of the main cast roles, or just be an incidental cameo character. Still doing janitorial duties, and mostly seen passing through hallways.

As far as rank goes, where do first Officer and Security and Communications sit with each other?

[Aluminator (Kit)]

Yeah, Luke, close the old thread, or we'll either be in constant retcon, or just straight-up alternate universe with the same characters in the same situation. Chad, you certainly won't need to give Xevec a central rank in order to keep playing him-- I think a lot of the point here is that the senior staff is sort of our central cast, but there's room for any number of characters to come and go at will. Hopefully this setup will work well in that regard.

I do have two caveats with the setup as described. Or... less caveats as concerns that should be considered. Firstly, having our characters in such a fortunate, resource-rich environment runs the risk of making things too easy. It needs to be seen as an amazing stroke of luck by our characters, and a fragile situation. I like the idea and am actually really looking forward to seeing what situations it might lead to, but we should treat it as what it is.

My second issue is in placing Keshin/Joanne in the first officer's position. That would likely be seen as a serious affront to the rebels, as well as to the longstanding Andalite crew of the Tyrennian. I don't know if anyone's familiar with Star Trek Voyager, but in the opening, the crew of Voyager is forced to join with a crew of freedom fighters (effectively outlaws). In a show of good faith and cooperation, the Captain makes the outlaw Captain her first officer. Essentially what I'm trying to say is that there ought to be consideration given to the balance between the Andalites and the Rebels (maybe the Andalites have more control over the ship but the Rebels have the numbers and more control over the outpost?). I have no problem with Keshin having been given the First Officer's post, but they had better have done something damn impressive to earn that much trust from both the Andalite crew and the Rebel leadership, or there's going to be an attempt on their life (and maybe Ossanlin's too) like once a week It's not realistic unless that's given some serious consideration.

I will definitely play one of the open senior crew positions-- Kelly, you can have first choice of which, if either, you'd like to play. Varit may be qualified for the Sensors position, but I'm not sure it's realistic for him to have gotten it. Though his Taxxon host might be very interesting in that regard... I'd have to think about it. I'll probably wind up making a new character for either position, so I have no real preference on which I take.

[Shenmue654]

I'm gone for a grand total of twenty seconds and all the major posts come in. o__O Well, crap. Mar's not even awake yet, the twit. XD Which is annoying because we need both of us right now.

Okay, so...we're going in for a major client meeting; the demon takes front. I can't weigh in on the situation until I get back to the school. We'll put up a post here once we have time, which should be between 12:00 and 3:00 pm. <3

[Chad32]

If anything, having a First officer that isn't affiliated with either groups would make her the least biased. The same with Ferxal Since he has not pledged allegiance to either group, he'll be just as harsh on an Andalite as he would a rebel. I will agree that Keshin needs to have done something for that position.

You may have a point that for the sake of conflict, we don't want the base to be too good a find. We don't want it to have everything they need.

[Luke Skywalker (Ossanlin)]

Okay, so I had this nice post all typed up and the cat decided to lay on me...post went poof.  I'll try to type up an outline of what I had already typed up before.

From the way it sounds, we'll be closing the old thread.  I'm still going to wait to hear from Kelly to make that final, but it sounds fairly likely.

Now to address the concerns Scott raised and share my own...

If we want to do away with the asteroid cloud for resources, I'm down with that, but I'd like to keep the habitable planet.  My primary concern with the planet is if it's been documented by either race, how could it possibly be secret enough?  And let's face it...will there really be any functional locations within useful range that haven't been documented?  So I'm thinking some sort of natural or artificial barrier which makes the location undesirable for everyone, except someone who needs a place to remain hidden.  Perhaps a star-system where the parent star kicks out such a radical amount of radiation that the entire system is flooded to the point of being impassable for even large ships.  The planet could be kept safe by a large, strong ionosphere, and perhaps the Tyrennian has developed some sort of specialized shielding technology that can hold off the radiation long enough to reach the planet from the rim.

Or, and I think I like this particular possibility a bit better, we could say that Keslin or Keshin found a place during solo travels that is documented, but noted down by Andalite and Yeerk alike as a place to stay away from...say an old planet that once hosted an ancient, warlike alien civilization.  Perhaps the surrounding space is filled by some sort of defense grid like an old mine-field or something, and there's only one way through...a way that the discoverer found and tediously mapped out. There could be derelict orbital defense platforms that might be retrofitted and restored to functionality again given enough time and resources.  Perhaps there are ruins of cities on the planet's surface where we might find resources and scavenged tech, but the ancient race presumably left because they'd tapped the planet and its home system out of natural resources.  Abandoned, little by way of useful resources, not a particularly strategic location, dangerous, difficult to navigate...it all spells a very unattractive place for either Andalite or Yeerk from a civilization standpoint.  But still, a habitable planet with plant and animal life, an ecosystem, fresh water, etc.  Lots of exploration and scouting opportunities right at home.  Perhaps this would be the best option?  I'm open to other ideas as well.

Now, as far as Kess being first officer...believe me, I know just how unlikely that is.  He did almost kill Ossanlin once, with Salem's assistance I might add.  You know how long I have Oss hold on to grudges...it's in his personality profile after all.  Earn trust, loyal friend for life, make an enemy, very very difficult to reconcile, and likely something he'd still take into consideration at every turn even if trust is earned.  You have actually touched upon the very thing that I was attempting to do with Oss.  Politically, he wanted a rebel as First Officer, but also one that could do the job.  Myitt was going to be that FO, but Tara left.  After that, I was looking at Keslin for the spot, but then Jessi left.  We have no rebellion players left, and I want a controller in the FO spot.  It would be assumed that at some point in the intervening time, Kess saved Ossanlin's life in a situation where it gained him little or no profit.  It's also possible that Kess joined the rebellion during that intervening time, but these are things I have to discuss with Kel and Mar.  The fact is, we four are all that are left, and all that I feel I can count on to actually continue posting without holding everyone else up.  The rebel players do not make this thread a priority, and indeed have pretty much left it altogether.  I'm asking you guys to put it on your priority list.  I know I'm making a demand on your time, but it's not much time to post twice per week, and especially not much time to post once per week.  I'm sorry for demanding an hour or two of you guys' lives every week, but I think we could have a lot of fun with it.  For example, I would love to be playing FFXIV right now, but I'm making time to make this post and get things rolling because I believe in this and I believe that it's worth my time.  I need like-minded individuals to make it work, though.  Unfortunately, the rebel players do not share my mind on this.

But, logistics aside, Kess as a first officer doesn't make as little sense as you might think.  Part of the FO's job is to provide the Captain with a different perspective on situations and voice his/her disapproval if he/she determines that the Captain is making a poor decision.  Keshin has a very different view, and would have no problem voicing his concerns with any of Ossanlin's plans of action.  Keshin is a fighter and the FO is usually the leader of off-ship party activities, a role which Kess could likely step into quite smoothly.  Keshin is a controller, which shows that Ossanlin is willing to put Yeerks in positions of power if suited.  The assumption is that Keslin and Myitt would stay at the space-dock as Council-members...they're used to being in a base anyway, and yes, the controllers would likely have reign over the space-dock and planetary outpost.  As such, they are not available for the position.  Keshin is a fighter and a survivor.  He's used to making decisions that play with peoples' lives, used to weighing risk against benefit, and used to finding the best possible solution out of the options available.  As such, he's prime officer-material.  It really, honestly makes sense in a way.  We just have to get past Ossanlin's massive mound of distrust for the controller...which is where the indeterminate life-saving for the sake of saving Ossanlin's life only comes in.  Kel, Mar, and myself may develop some sort of little backstory to deal with that if this all goes forward, we'll see.  Keshin joining the rebels would also lube the situation, but that is completely and totally up to Kelly and Mar.

Do these thoughts alleviate some of the concerns?

[Chad32]

I'll vote for the idea that it's documented as inhabited by an extremely hostile species, but they left and the data hasn't been updated. perhaps a predatory species that can't be infested, and likes the taste of Andalite. They've either left, or died out. Ossanlin's crew may have even found enough parts that if an Andalite or Yeerk vessel shows up, they could be tricked into thinking this species is still there.

I'll agree that if the players won't make this a priority, then Myitt and Keslin can't be the FO without us taking over. Which isn't really proper. Xevec was a Sub-Visser, but I'd feel like I have more than my fair share if I had First Officer, Chief Pilot, and Head of Security.

[Shenmue654]

Interesting. Let me go over what I think on all of these points one by one. It's a pretty long list, but since you put forth the effort we can too. 

(1). The real issue with the radiation explanation is that it is incredibly convenient. Basically, in order for the Tyrennian to have developed said shielding technology they would've had to have been hanging around a dangerous planet for months. That seems unlikely, given how badly they need to hunt for resources for the group. If we do use it, we're going to have to develop a pretty solid explanation as to why they went through all of that trouble for a place they couldn't initially land on. But with that said, I do think that in order for them to have a Star Trek-like base of operations without any Federation to rely on (Which we need for this Roleplay)...they'll need at least one solid, impenetrable source of resources. Keep in mind that Luke wants to set up some stability for these guys so that galactic shenanigans and adventures can commence.

It's most probable that Keslin found the warlike civilization planet. He was part of the "pirate rebellion," who I get the impression located bases like that more often. Keshin and Joanne were wanderers who essentially used their derelict Bug fighter as a base, which....XD...says a lot about how successful they were at accruing either money or resources on a regular basis. (Not very. )

(2). Nothlitization of Keshin/Joanne

This is, in fact, virtually the only way that Ossanlin could have secured Keshin and Joanne's loyalty as a major crew member. He could offer them a way out of the nightmare and certain death that they have lived in. Otherwise, they're as likely to betray Ossanlin as they've ever been. I'm assuming that they've had some time to adjust to the new mechanics and bizarre experience of being in the "wrong body." Female or no, being in a body that has muscles where yours are not and dimensions yours doesn't have is no picnic. It would take them a while to physically adjust their fighting to match the new body.

(3). Keshin as First Officer 

I think this has to happen because the only players left in the game are us, Ossanlin, Chad, and Scott. In order to have what you'd call "stake" in the Roleplay and to ensure regular posts, all four to five players need to have significant roles on the ship. It is possible to have another one of my characters or an invented character take the position, but they have less personal history with Luke and the other Roleplayers. The biggest problems I have with the idea are in fact not logistical, but thematic.

Part of the reason Keshin and Joanne are complex enough characters to play ball has a lot to do with their odd adverse position to everyone else and constant hidden agendas. As First Officer, the two of them have become loyal enough to one person that a completely different scenario has been created. This could either flatten and distort them as characters, or possibly greatly broaden their depth. I think that that "loyalty to one person" might actually be the key to ensuring their psychological continuity. That is, they have become freakishly loyal only to Ossanlin. Not the crew members, not the Tyrennian, not anyone else but him. This would create a situation in which the War-Prince trusts them absolutely but that doesn't necessarily mean everyone else does. A situation which could get seriously interesting under the wrong (Or right!) circumstances.

That's my two cents.

[Luke Skywalker (Ossanlin)]

OKay...so I actually have to work today (which is a good thing), and apparently it's either feast or famine because I have large quantity of jobs.  It's likely going to take me all day, so I don't know how much progress I'll be able to make with the revamp tonight.  Just a heads up.

[Luke Skywalker (Ossanlin)]

I've been giving Scott a couple of days to respond here.  If I/we don't hear from him by tomorrow, I'm going to push ahead with the setup going with the assumption that the setup described with the ancient alien planet and the current command crew will be acceptable.

[Luke Skywalker (Ossanlin)]

Okay, looks like Scott isn't going to be able to get back to me about his concerns right now, so I'm going to proceed with the build.  I don't know that I'll have the new thread up tonight, but it should be up sometime this weekend.  Scott, you can still feel free to let me/us know about your responses or concerns, but I'm going to run with this regardless as of now.

[Luke Skywalker (Ossanlin)]

Final post made and topic locked.  Will also be notating the Character sheet thread as archive and making appropriate notation changes in the OOC thread.



If you guys would please do me the kindness of drafting up a new character sheet for each of your main characters using the template at the beginning of this thread, I would surely appreciate it.  And please try to reflect any significant changes to the characters involved in the sheets where applicable (the most-obvious example of this being Joanne-Keshin nothlit, since nearly everything about their appearance will likely change, and according to you Kell, there will be some changes to their personality profile as well).

If you guys wanna PM me the updated character sheets, that'd be awesome.  Also, still a spot open on the Sensors station, First Active Security could be absorbed by the communications/head of security position, so I"m not worried about that.  Would like to have someone on sensors especially though.

[Aluminator (Kit)]

Sorry, life. Go figure. I'll get you my character sheets ASAP (hopefully tomorrow). Also, I think it'd be interesting to put Varit in the sensors position, especially given the apparently-superior-for-that-sort-of-thing abilities of his Taxxon host. If nobody has a problem with it, I'd like to tentatively stick him at sensors.

As for my concerns-- Luke, Chad, you're both totally right in that, from a very practical standpoint, Keshin and Joanne are theoretically an excellent choice for second in command. They'd bring a comparatively unbiased counter-viewpont to offset Ossanlin's and not be afraid to speak their mind in that regard.

My concern is the politics of the decision. The Rebels and the Andalite crew may be working together, but they're still two very distinct, separate factions; what we have is an alliance, and an uneasy one at that (Ossanlin and Myitt may be old friends, but most of the Andalites and Rebels have no reason to trust one another beyond the words of their respective leaders). If the Rebels feel that their needs and agendas are not being properly represented in this alliance, they may be less inclined to cooperate or continue to assist with the Andalite needs and agendas. Appointing Keshin to second in command of the Tyrennian-- the main remaining asset of the Rogue Element-- could be construed as a huge insult to the Rebellion at large, bypassing every single qualified Rebel in order to put an outsider in the position. And this isn't just any outsider; this is an outsider many of the Rebels actively consider an enemy. It's driving a wedge into the already-shaky relationship between the Rebels and the Andalites, and it's driving that wedge almost no matter what Keshin and Joanne have done in the interim to earn Rebel trust.

There's a similar, though probably lesser, concern when it comes to the Andalite crew-- they've already taken a huge leap and left everything behind by following Ossanlin to rescue the Rebellion and go rogue. They can only be asked to blindly trust their Captain so far-- asking them to accept that this non-Andalite stranger is more qualified than any member of the Andalite crew is not a trivial thing.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to talk you out of making Keshin the first officer. Far from it. From a roleplaying standpoint, Keshin as first mate actually makes a ton of sense, considering who we have left available, and as a roleplayer, I'm actually very excited for the chance to see how all of this conflicty goodness plays out ^_^ My concern is the realism of it actually happening within the world we've built. If it needs to be sort of... handwaved into existence, that's fine, but if we're trying to keep to the realistic side of things, it's a decision that needs to be well thought-out. It would be remarkably irresponsible of Ossanlin to promote Keshin to first officer without at least giving consideration to what effect it's going to have on the rest of the Rogue Element. It's something that's going to send shockwaves through this alliance.

As for the resources and the richness and safety of our situation, that's more of a thematic thing. The feel of RE will be sort of determined by our base of operations. If we want a more episodic Star Trek feel, or if we want them to stand a chance of influencing this war, then a solid, resource-rich base of operations is the way to go. If we want the feeling of an underdog caught up in a war between two titans, we'd probably want to go with something closer to what the Rebellion players have traditionally had-- base is wherever you can carve out a living long enough to catch your breath. If we want a Firefly kind of thing, we'd probably drop the base altogether.

To me, they all sound amazing; I think all I'm trying to do is to point out that our setup will significantly impact the feel of the roleplay. Not that there's any reason we couldn't use the plot to change from one to another at any time

Aaaaaannnnnyway. Haha. Now that I've rambled a bit I really like the idea of the planet documented as hostile, but whose inhabitants have disappeared for whatever reason. I've kind of always been under the impression the Z-space travel was not at all constrained by real space distances-- some places are just easier to get to than others, depending upon Z-space... like, lanes or whatever. Our new home could just be a little... off the beaten Z-path? Like, a bit difficult to navigate to without some tricky Z-play? That would lend itself well to the 'Keshin or Keslin discovered it while on the run one day' theory-- some fancy Z-maneuvering to lose a Blade Ship and then poof! Planet of death!

[Luke Skywalker (Ossanlin)]

Life happens, I'm just trying to keep running with this...I found out from my experiences with the first with  Rogue Element that if the mod doesn't keep things moving despite some people not posting, the whole thing drags out into a swampy mess.  I'm going to try to avoid doing that this go-round.

If you truly and dearly want to continue playing a Taxxon controller...I'm not going to say no.  It creates logistical difficulties, but if we can ignore the issues that would actually happen with putting an untrusted turulek in the First Officer position and a (presumably) Electorate-loyal Andalite who was simply forced into a difficult situation in charge of ship communications, then we can make those difficulties much less than they actually would be.  I'm making the best of the situation and just saying that the rebels are with the Tyrennian for good and wouldn't take offense at Keshin as First Officer...I'm also pretending that Ossanlin can trust Ferxal not to simply dial up a Homeworld communique and compromise everything and everyone involved with the roleplay.  What is this mysterious knowledge that Ossanlin has...?  I have no freaking clue...maybe something he read in Ferxal's file.  I'm sliding past the story-line issues here, which yes, is difficult for me to reconcile, but if I'm anything, I'm an optimist...at least where fiction is concerned.  I can get past it, and I think you can too.  I've given the whole thing a great deal of thought.  Myitt was lined up for the first officer position before we even started on the shuttle to Corvus.  At least she was in my mind.  Unfortunately, no Tara.  And I want Kelly to be able to play, so I can give this story all the convenience and positive spins I need to make it work with Keshin in the FO spot.  Point is, we can give your Taxxon the necessary plot conveniences to exist as well if you want to.

As for your concerns regarding the Andalite crew...those concerns would occur whether the controller in the FO spot is Keshin or any other Yeerk.  It was always going to be an issue, and possibly a source for conflict and interest.  That's been my plan all along.  Like I said, most of the stuff I had worked out for RE never got to see the light of day...I've dumped considerable time and thought into this entire plot, and I've had to change and evolve my plans and ideas according to what has happened with player ideas and availability, etc.  This is definitely a large deviation, but not necessarily a bad one, and I don't mind deviating if it makes the RP more enjoyable for one or more of us.

And you have to remember, Scott...we're talking about a lapse of more than half a year chronologically.  A lot can change in that period of time, especially with such an uncertain and dynamic environment as our characters have been dealing with.  Under my wide and sweeping assumptions, Myitt and Keslin both passed on the position in favor of being on their council.  I might even be able to go as far as saying the Myitt recommended Keshin for the post, depending on what's passed during that big intermission.

My view for this RP has always been Star Trek in the Animorphs Universe.  The reason I say "Firefly conditions" is that these characters don't have the power, sway, and resources of an entire government backing them.  They have to make do by themselves without any help.  That doesn't mean that they couldn't find a decent source of resources...I just meant that they don't have a supply line or backup behind them.

My thoughts on Z-Space compare it to an ocean, but a 4-dimensional one instead of 3.  My view is that actual distance does play a part as it does on an ocean, but the variations happen due to "turbulence."  Basically, the higher the waves, the more time you have to waste going up and down...you're covering a lot of distance, but it's not all productive.  However, the actual straight-line distance does still play a part.  It's sort of assumed that the Yeerks and Andalites are constrained to a single Galaxy, unless I'm forgetting something regarding the books.  That speaks to a "distance actually matters" way of thought.  Of course, Z-Space isn't explained in its entirety, so anything we come up with is just speculation, there's really not a right or wrong answer.  However I do have a plan for the Tyrennian that involves this mode of looking at Z-Space, and it's going to give them a nice, big edge...but it won't happen for awhile yet.  One interesting thing that Z-Space shifting brings up is that real-space distance, time, and speed are no-longer constant to each other.  And that opens up huge cans of worms.  For example, one could theoretically cover an infinite distance in an infinitesimal amount of time, or could cover no distance in a large amount of time...which could translate to time-travel...if one is traveling at a constant speed, but not traversing any physical distance, then the variable which must change is time...some crazy crap going on there.  Anyway...this is why I mentioned distance as being an important factor in the location of a base...because of the ocean thing, not because of the crazy thing I said just before this sentence.

But yes, off the beaten path would work out well.  Perhaps there's some sort of ancient Z-field inhibitor technology still functioning on the planet and it dragged one of the Yeerks out of Z-Space unexpectedly or some such...

[Chad32]

I believe Z-Space was described as sort of a river without borders to guide it. So you have various streams that move freely, but still somehow stay together enough to be called a stream.

It really is too bad Myitt or Keslin can't be First Officer, but you are right that most andalite probably wouldn't see much difference between one controller being FO, and another.

[Shenmue654]

The real clinching weirdness of this whole issue is that Rogue Element was designed for the entire group to be playing ball at once, and the entire group isn't playing ball. To complicate things even further, the RP members that are available have very limited time to actually do anything fun and interesting that doesn't make them money. Mar and I are both on the hunt for a job along with running four to five legal cases simultaneously plus schoolwork. The old convenience of the way the RAF Roleplaying used to work no longer exists. For we are no longer as young as we were.

That being said, we are dedicated to taking RE in a new direction, with the five of us, and seeing where it goes. The realism of the situation is debatable, but we lack other workable options. Not much else to say on this front for now. :} <3