Do Yeerks Love?

[Terenia]

This is kind of going off of a post in another thread. Here's what Kharina said:

hehehehe... sorry... but hey, those two Yeerks were the only exception. And the reason they loved was probably because their hosts also loved each other... thus influencing them. But... I really can't imagine Yeerks loving... sure, friendship and loyalty were existing.. .but not really love... except Visser One and his subordinate of course... 

Visser One and Essam was a special case, I agree, as they were very much influenced by the emotions of their hosts.  However, there are other examples of Yeerk love where the hosts don't come into it at all: Aftran's love for her brother, which prompted her to, dangerously, follow a suspected Andalite bandit, and to steal a Dracon Beam, the punishment for which is "very painful".  And I think with Yeerks, "very painful" means PAINFUL.

There's also the example of Eslin, who betrayed V3 and worked with an Andalite (consider how much the two species hate each other), due to his love/friendship for Derane.  He describes this as originating very early on and continuing throughout their respective rise through the ranks through numerous hosts.  And the way he describes it seems pretty close to the way human love might be described.

Visser One and Essam (and their love for their human children) was really human love, and wouldn't have occured without the confusion between themselves and their hosts. It's actually a really bad example of Yeerk love. However, the other two examples clearly stem from the Yeerks themselves.

I know this is an old quote, but I felt the need to answer this.

So...what do you think? Do Yeerks love? To what extent? Since they have hundreds of siblings how far can sibling affection stretch? All of the instances of love we see in the series are between two people, but it takes three Yeerks to procreate...

What do you think?

[Phoenix004]

I think it's obvious that Yeerks are capable of love, it's just very rare. After all, their method of reproduction results in the deaths of the parents, so they obviously don't have a concept of marriage or long term relationships and they never know their children. Visser Three clearly had no love for his twin brother, yet Aftran was willing to steal and accept painful punishment in order to avenge her brother's death.

The thing you have to remember here is that not all Yeerks are the same. As we discover in #19 they aren't even all evil, since some are unwilling to enslave innocent hosts. This could mean that while the idea of love is nonexistent to many Yeerks, it is possible for some of them. 

[RYTX]

Yes.
If I understand emotions (and I don't) then any being capable of emotion is capable of developing, and probably repressing any emotion. Maybe because it's not culturally valued it is often not developed or expressed, but any Yeerk should be capable of it, even if they never experience it.

[wolfev]

Just wonder with this. Was Visser 1 female or male. Because she had predominately female hosts but is later referred to as he. I never really understood yeerk gender relations. Maybe it only occurs when they are in a host. Otherwise I think they are hermaphodites. Remember it takes 3 yeerks to reproduce.

[esplin]

i think that yeerks are quite capable of love but like the others before me said its just rare.
I think that culturally it would be hard to love if your whole thing is enslaving races.  Its considered treason to fall in love with your host remember?

[zaprowsdower]

Regarding gender I don't think Yeerks have any naturally because there would be no evolutionary need for it. Any three Yeerks can join together and begin the reproduction/death process. The concept of gender was probably introduced and adopted into their culture when they took over the Gedds.

[Terenia]

Yeah, I'm fairly sure that Yeerks are genderless, but may develop an affinity for a specific gender through hosts.

As far as the love thing is concerned, I think it's obvious that Yeerks can love...but why do we only ever see love between two Yeerks? It takes three to make grubs. Perhaps there is a difference between companionship-love and procreation-love, which would theoretically come later in life when the Yeerk is prepared to die?

[Estelore]

Hmmmn. This is getting interesting.

I'd like to think that love is universal in the higher forms of life, but it rather irks me when people call love a 'feeling' or an 'emotion'.

It's like the cherubim says in A Wind in the Door:

PROGINOSKES: Meg, love isn’t how you feel. It’s what you do. Cherubim have no feelings at all! If love were a feeling, I wouldn't be able to love.

[wotw2112]

I'd like to think that love is universal in the higher forms of life, but it rather irks me when people call love a 'feeling' or an 'emotion'.

I'd have to disagree with both contentions.  I don't think love is particularly universal - not even the entire human race is capable of it so it isn't necessarily a "universal".  And second, the very fact that it is rare makes it as powerful and important as it can be.

Also, I have no problem with calling it an emotion (it is, in addition to being all the other things you mentioned).  It bothers me more when people abuse the word when they say things like "well I just don't love her anymore" and "I used to love her."  Implying that love is so ephemeral is much more irksome to me.

But I digress, to get back to the point I'd say Yeerks don't necessarily have to have the capacity for love.  In fact I doubt they do in the sense that humans do.

[Dameg]

I always thought Yeerks were genderless... I always say "he" for a Yeerk, even if he has a female host. Even if they act a little like females sometimes... Aftran was always a "he" in my mind even with his little-girl host ^_^'
And I agree a little with Wotw... I think Yeerks can feel a kind of "love" but quite different from human love. They can feel emotions, of course, but I think it's different because their reproduction and their lifes are different from humans'.
It's why it's hard to judge them: they have different feelings from us, so things who are "horrible" for us may not be for them. And thigs who are important for us may not be so important for them. And vice versa...

[Kharina]

OK, I already said my basic view in the quote Terenia provided, so I'll just give my thoughts on what a few others have said.

i think that yeerks are quite capable of love but like the others before me said its just rare.
I think that culturally it would be hard to love if your whole thing is enslaving races.  Its considered treason to fall in love with your host remember?

Yeah it would be treason, but I don't see why that would make it rare for Yeerks to love each other.  After all, most people here will be capable of love, but probably won't extend it to the same degree to another species.  Doing so, certainly in a romantic way, would be socially unacceptable in most if not all human societies, too.  I guess it's similar with Yeerks. 

Yeah, I'm fairly sure that Yeerks are genderless, but may develop an affinity for a specific gender through hosts.

As far as the love thing is concerned, I think it's obvious that Yeerks can love...but why do we only ever see love between two Yeerks? It takes three to make grubs. Perhaps there is a difference between companionship-love and procreation-love, which would theoretically come later in life when the Yeerk is prepared to die?

Yeah, I agree totally.  After all, there is a difference between platonic and romantic/sexual love in humans too: there's friendship, parent-child and sibling love which are all very different to romantic love.  I don't see why there wouldn't be that divide in Yeerks.

Just wonder with this. Was Visser 1 female or male. Because she had predominately female hosts but is later referred to as he. I never really understood yeerk gender relations. Maybe it only occurs when they are in a host. Otherwise I think they are hermaphodites. Remember it takes 3 yeerks to reproduce.

Yeah, they are probably genderless (although theoretically the three Yeerks thing could be 2 males and 1 female or suchlike, I imagine they are genderless).  I think V1 was a special case, as because she had identified so closely with humans, so at least at times she thought of herself as female.  Certainly I imagine that was how she felt during her year on Earth with Essam, although she may have suppressed that later.  Likewise, I imagine SV51 in number 33 identified herself as female, as she and Taylor were so closely interlinked and there was quite a bit of confusion between the two.

[Myitt]

I think Yeerks had the capacity to love, even romantic love, even though that's probably rare within Yeerk society.  Essam and Edriss were two Yeerks who fell in love with each other, their hosts, and the whole idea of being human.  That says a lot about the capacity of Yeerks to adapt to the new emotions of their hosts, like caring for children and having a pair bonded relationship.  We do also see that one guy in #8, Eslin, who seeks revenge for the death of Derane, a non-sibling Yeerk whom he grew up with and basically seemed to love.  He was grieving for him/her/it (K.A. says they're genderless in a FAQ somewhere) with all the feeling of the loss of a loved one, maybe as close to romantic love as Yeerks can get while they're still alive. 

In fact I kind of wonder if Yeerk reproduction has much to do with love at all.  Since three Yeerks have to be involved would they all be in love with each other, feel affection for each other, or is it more acceptance of the end of their lives to further the Yeerk race?  I mean, if two Yeerks are feeling like they love each other and want to finally die, do they just drag some other poor sucker in? x3  Doesn't seem likely, unless all three of them are very good friends.  Or they're forced into it, within the Empire.

I like to think that since Yeerks have so many siblings, they're probably close to a few and distant (literaly and figuratively) from many others.  I'd hate to think about planning a family reunion 

[Chad32]

I always associate a Yeerk's gender with the host. Visser One said she became male when she first took a Human male host.

I always think of Aftran and Visser One as female, and Visser Three as male. Because of their hosts. They may be genderless, though. I don't know.

All we know of reproduction is that it takes three, and those three meld into one and split off into grubs. It probably has to do more with instinct than love, in the same way that a small male spider will mate with a large female spider, even though the male knows he's going to get eaten.

Also, I believe love is just an emotion. A very strong emotion, but an emotion nonetheless. I believe that people can fall in and out of love.

[Tim Bruening]

This is kind of going off of a post in another thread. Here's what Kharina said:

hehehehe... sorry... but hey, those two Yeerks were the only exception. And the reason they loved was probably because their hosts also loved each other... thus influencing them. But... I really can't imagine Yeerks loving... sure, friendship and loyalty were existing.. .but not really love... except Visser One and his subordinate of course... 

Visser One and Essam was a special case, I agree, as they were very much influenced by the emotions of their hosts.  However, there are other examples of Yeerk love where the hosts don't come into it at all: Aftran's love for her brother, which prompted her to, dangerously, follow a suspected Andalite bandit, and to steal a Dracon Beam, the punishment for which is "very painful".  And I think with Yeerks, "very painful" means PAINFUL.

There's also the example of Eslin, who betrayed V3 and worked with an Andalite (consider how much the two species hate each other), due to his love/friendship for Derane.  He describes this as originating very early on and continuing throughout their respective rise through the ranks through numerous hosts.  And the way he describes it seems pretty close to the way human love might be described.

Visser One and Essam (and their love for their human children) was really human love, and wouldn't have occured without the confusion between themselves and their hosts. It's actually a really bad example of Yeerk love. However, the other two examples clearly stem from the Yeerks themselves.

I know this is an old quote, but I felt the need to answer this.

So...what do you think? Do Yeerks love? To what extent? Since they have hundreds of siblings how far can sibling affection stretch? All of the instances of love we see in the series are between two people, but it takes three Yeerks to procreate...

What do you think?

If 3 Yeerks get together to procreate, they die, so there would be no room for romance.

[Dylan]

It's more of an instinct for yeerks to procreate. I don't yeerks in their natural state really feel love or sexual desire. It's when yeerks take over a new body, they get a gender identity and a since of love. That was part of what Visser was about.