Author Topic: Why do people dislike Cassie?  (Read 5621 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

onnicarda

  • Guest
Re: Why do people dislike Cassie?
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2011, 08:43:26 PM »
That I understand. However, it is not entirely Cassie's fault. The blame lies on all the Animorphs' shoulders. Who would have predicted those turns of events? (besides the Ellimist) The Animorphs all agreed to trap him inside the rat morph, instead of killing him. They thought it was the better thing to do. I doubt any would have agreed to kill David on the stop. Cassie was "too weak"? I think they all were "too weak". While her actions were cruel, who would have voluntarily killed David? Cassie selected Rachel to be the "bait", because she knew that David would have picked Rachel. She knew that David would make Rachel find the cube, because he would enjoy making her obey him. Also, don't you think they were all stressed because of the numerous events occuring that time?

Cassie was pressured to do something, and do something fast. Of course, it is quite easy for us to say they should have killed David. We are not faced with actual situations. If the Animorphs disliked the plan, they would have said so. If they thought it was better to kill David, they would have done it. And the plan did succeed, it kept David from being a threat for the time being. Was Cassie supposed to predict Crayak's decision? If the Animorphs considered this everytime they went through a plan, they'd become quite paranoid!

Also, are you scorning Cassie because she did not suffer as the others? Is that justified? Are you saying she should have done something to make herself become a nothlit or die? While you may disagree with Cassie's opinions, isn't everybody different? Everyone has different ideas of moralizing.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2011, 08:48:34 PM by onnicarda »

Offline Estelore

  • Constant and Distant
  • God
  • ********
  • Posts: 6709
  • Karma: 369
  • Gender: Female
  • Your friendly neighbourhood plural system
Re: Why do people dislike Cassie?
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2011, 09:07:24 PM »
Quote
That I understand. However, it is not entirely Cassie's fault. The blame lies on all the Animorphs' shoulders. Who would have predicted those turns of events? (besides the Ellimist) The Animorphs all agreed to trap him inside the rat morph, instead of killing him. They thought it was the better thing to do. I doubt any would have agreed to kill David on the stop. Cassie was "too weak"? I think they all were "too weak", if that's how you will describe it. While her actions were cruel, who would have voluntarily killed David?

None of them could realistically predict that result of David actually coming back, but the primary reason they all agreed on the rat-trap was Cassie. They new she'd be impossible to live with if they had a human murder on their hands, and that this even worse alternative would still somehow be "acceptable" in her skewed perceptions of morality. 
The 'better' thing to do? "Better" certainly doesn't imply "good;" one might call it better to lose one eye and both hands than to lose both eyes and both hands, but neither of those circumstances seems particularly good.
As for any of them killing or not killing David... in absence of Cassie, the ONLY one of them I don't see making the logical connection and promptly removing him is Jake, and only particularly because he would always consider the entire situation his fault (since he's the 'unofficial' leader) and the judgment to kill would have been on his head.  Rachel has no such need for restraint, and Ax may even have leapt at the opportunity. Marco and Tobias have added motive: David morphed Marco as a way to betray the team, and Tobias was the first one David targeted for death, all the way from the beginning, when they were choosing his flight morph.
So who would have voluntarily killed David? Likely any of them, with the possible 'no' for Jake. They refrained so that Cassie would stay and function in the team.

Quote
Of course, it is quite easy for us to say they should have killed David. We are not faced with actual situations.
Of course we are; the events only occur within the pages of the books and in our own minds, as we read them. We recreate the situations in their entirety, in our minds, and as the readers, it is our right and perhaps our obligation to judge what occurred.

Quote
If the Animorphs disliked the plan, they would have said so.
I recall at some point all of them making it clear that they disliked it, and at least two alluding to the fact that just killing him would settle the issue immediately and without continued unnecessary risk.


Quote
Also, are you scorning Cassie because she did not suffer as the others? Is that justified? Are you saying she should have done something to make herself become a nothlit or die? While you may disagree with Cassie's opinions, isn't everybody different? Everyone has different ideas of moralizing.
I'm saying that as a character, her complete lack of comparable personal losses during the war is suspiciously Mary-Sue-isch. The Animorphs' success as a guerilla band is, in and of itself, pretty unrealistic for as long as they kept it up... but none of them dying until the last book? Unfathomable. Cassie not encountering any of the losses or setbacks of the rest of the team? If anything, laughable. I'm not saying Cassie should have done ANYTHING. I'm saying, if the author wanted Cassie to actually be appreciable and as real a character as the others were, for the fans, then more steps should have been taken to demonstrate Cassie in a considerable amount of personal suffering, the way every other Animorph was. If we never see Cassie in some genuine agonized state, then we only see half of the character, during a war story. The worst she ever has is a few moments of doubt and fear, and that's what ALL of them had, by default. As for Cassie's opinions... let's keep in mind that there's a difference between opinions and overwhelming tendencies to nearly get everybody killed who has been fighting on your side to save your planet. The difference, while maybe insignificant, is this: the instant that opinion becomes an action, or a failure to take action. Like it or not, Cassie is basically conscripted into a six-member military the instant she touches the Blue Box. If she had been part of an organization large enough to make the her individually expendable, she would have been punished for mutiny or cowardice, and that would have been the end of it. It was the Animorphs' bad luck as guerilla fighters to be stuck with her and no viable alternatives, and it's our misfortune as readers to be stuck with a character who flops so comprehensively in every effort taken to make her compelling or likable and audience-sympathetic. If anything, the authors try too hard at the 'sympathetic' part, and they overshoot by a couple lightyears, placing her firmly in Mary-Sue territory. >_<
The universe is, instant by instant, re-created anew. There is, in truth, no Past, only a memory of the Past. Blink your eyes, and the world you see next did not exist when you closed them. The only appropriate state of the mind is surprise. The only appropriate state of the heart is joy. The sky you see now, you have never seen before. The perfect moment is now. Be glad of it.

-GNU Terry Pratchet, The Thief of Time

Offline TobiasMasonPark

  • Emperor/Empress of RAF
  • Xtreme Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 2029
  • Karma: 265
  • Gender: Male
  • RAF's Official Unofficial Canadian Ambassador
    • TobiasMasonPark Blogs
Re: Why do people dislike Cassie?
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2011, 09:30:45 PM »



Quote
I'm saying that as a character, her complete lack of comparable personal losses during the war is suspiciously Mary-Sue-isch. The Animorphs' success as a guerilla band is, in and of itself, pretty unrealistic for as long as they kept it up... but none of them dying until the last book? Unfathomable. Cassie not encountering any of the losses or setbacks of the rest of the team? If anything, laughable. I'm not saying Cassie should have done ANYTHING. I'm saying, if the author wanted Cassie to actually be appreciable and as real a character as the others were, for the fans, then more steps should have been taken to demonstrate Cassie in a considerable amount of personal suffering, the way every other Animorph was. If we never see Cassie in some genuine agonized state, then we only see half of the character, during a war story. The worst she ever has is a few moments of doubt and fear, and that's what ALL of them had, by default. As for Cassie's opinions... let's keep in mind that there's a difference between opinions and overwhelming tendencies to nearly get everybody killed who has been fighting on your side to save your planet. The difference, while maybe insignificant, is this: the instant that opinion becomes an action, or a failure to take action. Like it or not, Cassie is basically conscripted into a six-member military the instant she touches the Blue Box. If she had been part of an organization large enough to make the her individually expendable, she would have been punished for mutiny or cowardice, and that would have been the end of it. It was the Animorphs' bad luck as guerilla fighters to be stuck with her and no viable alternatives, and it's our misfortune as readers to be stuck with a character who flops so comprehensively in every effort taken to make her compelling or likable and audience-sympathetic. If anything, the authors try too hard at the 'sympathetic' part, and they overshoot by a couple lightyears, placing her firmly in Mary-Sue territory. >_<

     So, when you think about it, David is a much more effective guerilla-solider...minus his tedency to, you know, betray his teammates.
Tony's pet Goose.
Unknown User is my shorm.
:raftrophy:
Best Newcomer, 2011
(Thanks for the votes!)
The picture is rather accurate

Offline Estelore

  • Constant and Distant
  • God
  • ********
  • Posts: 6709
  • Karma: 369
  • Gender: Female
  • Your friendly neighbourhood plural system
Re: Why do people dislike Cassie?
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2011, 09:36:19 PM »
Quote
So, when you think about it, David is a much more effective guerilla-solider...minus his tedency to, you know, betray his teammates.

...it was ever in question? :-/
He almost single-handedly dispatched the Animorphs, one by one, using some pretty solid guerilla tactics. Yeah, he eventually was outmaneuvered, but he was also against 6-to-1 odds involving enemies with significantly superior practice at the only weapon he had at his disposal. Considering how much practice the Animorphs had working together at this point in the series, it's vaguely equivalent to a completely untrained man with a shotgun and vague knowledge how to use it, nearly completely taking down a SEAL team.
The universe is, instant by instant, re-created anew. There is, in truth, no Past, only a memory of the Past. Blink your eyes, and the world you see next did not exist when you closed them. The only appropriate state of the mind is surprise. The only appropriate state of the heart is joy. The sky you see now, you have never seen before. The perfect moment is now. Be glad of it.

-GNU Terry Pratchet, The Thief of Time

Offline TobiasMasonPark

  • Emperor/Empress of RAF
  • Xtreme Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 2029
  • Karma: 265
  • Gender: Male
  • RAF's Official Unofficial Canadian Ambassador
    • TobiasMasonPark Blogs
Re: Why do people dislike Cassie?
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2011, 09:38:08 PM »
     Too bad David didn't work out. The war could have need quicker.
Tony's pet Goose.
Unknown User is my shorm.
:raftrophy:
Best Newcomer, 2011
(Thanks for the votes!)
The picture is rather accurate

onnicarda

  • Guest
Re: Why do people dislike Cassie?
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2011, 11:59:19 AM »
     Too bad David didn't work out. The war could have need quicker.

Yeah, it would have.

Offline matthew

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 40
  • Karma: 2
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why do people dislike Cassie?
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2011, 07:30:37 PM »
I have many issues with Cassie, but by far the worst issue was that she didn't develop what-so-ever, while the other Animorphs did. A classic example of this is book #9. That last chapter pretty much proves that she didn't change from the events in that book at all.

Offline goom

  • the underling of underlings
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 8929
  • Karma: 690
  • Gender: Male
  • no other distinguishing characteristics.
    • Twitch.TV Streams
Re: Why do people dislike Cassie?
« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2011, 02:36:54 AM »


those two alone are enough of a reason ;)

Offline TobiasMasonPark

  • Emperor/Empress of RAF
  • Xtreme Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 2029
  • Karma: 265
  • Gender: Male
  • RAF's Official Unofficial Canadian Ambassador
    • TobiasMasonPark Blogs
Re: Why do people dislike Cassie?
« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2011, 08:36:56 AM »


those two alone are enough of a reason ;)

     You should have used the inside cover art for the one on the left.
Tony's pet Goose.
Unknown User is my shorm.
:raftrophy:
Best Newcomer, 2011
(Thanks for the votes!)
The picture is rather accurate

Offline Chad32

  • God
  • ********
  • Posts: 11951
  • Karma: 195
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why do people dislike Cassie?
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2011, 12:29:38 PM »
I personally dislike Cassie because she made up at least one stupid rule that restricts them: No morphing sentient beings. There is a practical reason not to do that, but I don't think any of the animorphs will start committing crimes while morphed as other people. The reason she states for not doing it is bullcrap.

She left the Animorphs in book 19 instead of just taking a break, because she refused to change who she currently was. Even though she did come back at the end of the book, this was a bad reason to leave.

She betrayed the animorphs in book 50, came up with an excuse for it when she had no idea at the time it would work that way, and to top it all off Tobias said it was "beyond wrong" when Jake accidentally excluded her from a future meeting.

She totally separated herself from Jake when he needed someone the most. It was marco keeping an eye on him during his depression.

She trapped David as a rat because somehow that would be more merciful than killing him, and it's actually Rachel that seems the most bothered by this.

Just off the top of my head.


Ani-Master 2014!

Offline Shenmue654

  • Xtreme Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 4529
  • Karma: 120
  • Gender: Female
Re: Why do people dislike Cassie?
« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2011, 01:43:33 PM »
Hmm. I'd actually argue that morphing sentient beings would be too much of a temptation. Can you seriously argue that, as a teenager, with all the power of the world separated from you, you could resist the urge to morph into someone else's body? Because I don't think I could. I remember only too well how it felt to be powerless and yet stressed. I feel something like it now. How often have you wanted to live someone else's life?

You have a point with #19. She should have told the Animorphs what she was feeling rather than leave. Giving up the fate of the world because of your own personal problems is stupid.

I can't really say for certain about the events in Book # 50, but whatever it was must have been pretty bad. It seems to have been what created the divide on Cassie in the first place. As for David....I don't agree with it either. But at that age, there is no way I could have anticipated the consequences. Granted I'm the idiot who at that time had such a broken theory of mind that I did something terrible without anticipating how others would react at all. But from my limited experience, at that time I thought in very clear extremes. I could have made the same terrible mistake, not wanting to kill another human being.

So....I'm mixed on the subject. I think the author gave her far too much leeway, but I simply never noticed that. I saw a very flawed, very idealistic person who had no place in a war. But was there anyway. Marco's pragmatism was a way of countering Cassie's idealism. While K.A. seemed to agree with Cassie over Marco, I guess I just never saw that as a problem. *Derp* :P























« Last Edit: June 29, 2011, 01:49:36 PM by Shenmue654 »

Offline Chad32

  • God
  • ********
  • Posts: 11951
  • Karma: 195
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why do people dislike Cassie?
« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2011, 01:53:21 PM »
I'm sure I'd be too busy with other things than to do something immoral or illegal with someone else's body. But that's just me. I can't speak for everyone.


Ani-Master 2014!

Offline Shenmue654

  • Xtreme Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 4529
  • Karma: 120
  • Gender: Female
Re: Why do people dislike Cassie?
« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2011, 02:06:17 PM »
Immoral or illegal? Hell no. I wouldn't care about that. I'd be thinking more along the lines of, "Lock some guy in a closet. Live his life, ignoring your own. Forget about your world. It isn't this guy's problem." That idea would occur to me REAL fast. Granted the guilt I'd feel at doing such a thing would be unconquerable, but then I'd just try and strike up a deal with a close friend who also had the morphing power. No way would I leave the box there. If I did, I'd go back for it fast. I wouldn't wait for David to get it, even at that age.

Come to think of it, I'm a little baffled as to why they didn't periodically switch lives to relieve the stress. Cassie's fear shouldn't have stopped them from doing that........but my life DOES suck right now. XDD

Offline Andalite_Shorm

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 89
  • Karma: 9
  • Gender: Male
    • deviantART
Re: Why do people dislike Cassie?
« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2011, 03:55:42 PM »
Anyone who doesn't like Cassie... Is going to be sorry to see Jake.

I like Cassie, Cassie's cool. Jake's my fav, Rachel no. 2 (sorry, Rach) Marco...Cassie...wa it... why is she coming in 4th?? Aw, jeez...*sigh* Wait till I sort this out... :huh:



Offline goom

  • the underling of underlings
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 8929
  • Karma: 690
  • Gender: Male
  • no other distinguishing characteristics.
    • Twitch.TV Streams
Re: Why do people dislike Cassie?
« Reply #29 on: June 29, 2011, 09:50:29 PM »
those two alone are enough of a reason ;)

     You should have used the inside cover art for the one on the left.

totally ;)