Author Topic: Earth Is Paradise For Aliens  (Read 3451 times)

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Offline Zero_Messiah

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Earth Is Paradise For Aliens
« on: April 10, 2011, 02:20:58 PM »
This topic was specifically created to point out one of the more extreme moments in Animorphs where even 'normal' suspension of disbelief is unlikely.

That is, how nearly every alien that ever goes to Earth, does not encounter any problems.

Andalites enter the earth and are completely unaffected by the different composition of air. They eat the grass of earth with no side effects.

Hork Bajir, same thing. They don't need a special mixture of air (despite being raised to live on a planet which got hit by a meteor) nor do they have problems with earth trees (though admittedly, they taste worse than homeworld trees).

The Yeerks are probably the only one who ever has problems as a result of earth; they go insane from instant oatmeal, and chlorine burns away their protective slime. But that's it.

The worst violator of this, would be Visser Three. He morphs aliens which are dangerous, but more importantly, are from other planets. Planets that they were built to live on; transporting those aliens into earth's enviroment and not getting any sort of biological problems is extremely implausible (yes, the entire series is implausible, I get it, but if they did so much research into animals, they'd probably should have realized animals don't do well outside of their natural habitat, nevermind their natural planet)

The group goes into Leera in book 18, and miraculously, are unaffected by the composition of water and air.

You may think this is a small issue, but even plants on earth have areas that they can grow in, and anywhere else, they literally die. And plants are simple when compared to biological animals, whom have gone through millions of years of evolution to live in a very specific type of enviroment; Earth.

So wouldn't it be extremely unlikely that Visser Three often morphs a random creature (because really, it's not like he makes an active decision on which to pick; he just decides what's deadly enough for this situation and proceeds to morph into it) and doesn't slowly keel over when he realizes that the creature he morphed was probably not built to live on another planet? (You could even argue that there is no reason for him to morph, considering how his andalite form was probably the most dangerous battle morph he could have ever chosen)

It's not like this issue is completely ignored by the authors, either. Marco has morphed trout (freshwater fish) in seawater, and he proceeds to slowly die. he manages to demorph later. Meanwhile, the aliens who have absolutely no biological defenses to earth's disease and elemental composition literally just stroll through without so much as a cough. Ax doesn't get any human diseases, despite his sanitary conditions. He doesn't even get animal diseases. It would have been soo easy for him to get rabies, and that would have been an Ax I did not want to meet.

Does this ualify as a KASU, or just immense suspension of disbelief?

Offline Phoenix004

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Re: Earth Is Paradise For Aliens
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2011, 03:17:50 PM »
This is actually a very good point, although since it's a common thing in many sci-fi I think it qualifies as suspension of disbelief. You are right though, as it's incredibly unlikely that the ratio of oxygen to other gases is almost identical on all these worlds. Even more unlikely is the lack of alien bacteria affecting humans and Earth bacteria affecting aliens.

However, it is possible that Ax's infected Tria gland problem (see #29) was a result of being exposed to various Earth bacteria for a prolonged period of time. Very few other Andalites have spent as much time on Earth as he has after all (Visser Three is usually in orbit).

As you said, Yeerks are harmed by chlorinated water, but so were the Hork-Bajir hosts in Visser when they tried to drink from a recently cleaned swimming pool.

It would've been very interesting to see more of this kind of this in the series though. Perhaps a Hork-Bajir/Taxxon being temporarily disabled by a common infection or finding out Andalites are allergic to a particular Earth plant. It's certainly worth considering for a fanfic.
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Offline RYTX

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Re: Earth Is Paradise For Aliens
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2011, 03:44:25 PM »
....mmmm, a little of both and neither me thinks.
Lots of animals are specialist, and thrive best in certain areas, but a lot can still survive almost anywhere. Doves will dwell on mountain tops and cities and deserts, high altitude mammals can be brought down and reared in shore-side zoos, you'll even find some toads out in the desert. Thing is most of the time when we think about animals in an environment, we think about specialized for that environment, but for the most part species are generalist: they have theri favorite areas, but they can still exist pretty much anywhere within a certain scope, even if they are a bit uncomfortable.
Yeerks being endoparasites-well once you get over the fact that they can infest most brains-the environment is no biggie.
The hork-bajir where built to sustain a liveable environment-the Arn probably had to set up the trees, but added the Hork-bajir as cultivators.
Ax does get sick the one time-maybe it's just good general immunity, but the same factors that make him vulnerable may also help him: plenty of diseases are specials, and wouldn't do anything to the wrong host.
V3 does bring up an annoying issue, but again, we only see his morphs for  intervals measured in minutes-who knows how they're requirements are really meet.
For me, the suspension comes into the fact of everything being life as we know it. Everything is DNA based (except the Venber, but the ones we see are hybrids) so there are some qualifiers, but KA plays it up that the requirements for life are the same everywhere with specializations needed for marcoenvironments (salt water vs fresh vs land-and most of what we get is terrestrial) which always irked me. Assuming their was no seed spreader before the pemalites and the ellimist, Andalites are more closely related to andalite world grass then any earth animal-and the necessity and repetition of forms being so...understandable and earth-like seems unduly limiting to me.
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Offline DinosaurNothlit

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Re: Earth Is Paradise For Aliens
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2011, 08:57:08 PM »
You'd be pretty surprised what kinds of conditions life can survive in.  Did you know that they brought back a piece of equipment that had gone to the moon and stayed there for at least three years (I think it was actually longer than that, but I don't remember for sure), tested it, and found living bacteria on it?  Granted, bacteria are a lot sturdier than most vertebrate life, but it goes to show that life will always surprise you.

I highly doubt that the Animorphs aliens are as survivable as bacteria, but they may or may not be better equipped than earth vertebrates.  Hork-bajir, in particular, were genetically engineered to survive on a planet with a recovering atmosphere, so you'd think they'd be able to cope with some pretty big fluctuations in atmospheric composition.

There's also a theory which says that multicellular life owes its existence to the presence of oxygen in earth's atmosphere.  I'm not really clear on why that ought to be the case, but it is true that there is a curious correlation between when oxygen showed up in earth's atmosphere, and when multicellular life showed up very shortly afterwards.  Correlation doesn't imply causation and all that, but it's still an interesting coincidence.  And if it is true, then multicellular life (which all Animorphs aliens clearly are) has at least one common environmental necessity: oxygen.  And most of earth's other gases are either nonreactive enough, or present in small enough quantities, or so ubiquitous in the universe that if they were poisonous to you then you couldn't live anywhere, that it's at least conceivable that any alien could at least theoretically adjust to the mix of gases in earth's atmosphere without too many negative effects.

The plant situation, however, is a little harder to explain away.  You'd think that earth grass would be different enough from Andalite grass to have no nutritive value to an Andalite, wouldn't you?  Other than saying that they're probably both carbon-based, but that doesn't mean a whole lot when you're trying to derive nutrition from something.

Oh, man, something I just thought of.  You guys realize that most earth grass is laced with silicon crystals, right?  To discourage herbivores from eating it (which is why most herbivores need such fast-growing teeth, because they get worn down so fast from all the silicon in the grass), right?  Well, I'm betting that Andalite grass probably doesn't have that feature, except in the event of an extremely far-fetched coincidence.  That . . . must have taken Ax some time to get used to.  :P

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Re: Earth Is Paradise For Aliens
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2011, 09:04:19 PM »
     I thought about this a few times, too, actually. I guess I just wrote it off as a coincidence.
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Offline Aquilai

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Re: Earth Is Paradise For Aliens
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2011, 11:00:25 PM »
Ignoring that Ax can breathe and sustain himself on Earth despite possible atmospheric differences, living for such an extended time on Earth as an alien should expose him to so many diseases or infections that it is too easily overlooked/ignored. Arguably you could say he had "vaccinations" but you can make anything up to cover for the implausibility of aliens living on a foreign planet. Even on the same planet there are many cases where the immune system just can't handle diseases. Europeans brought over the common cold killing many Native Americans. Imagine the diseases that can be shared from extraterrestrial life.
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Offline DinosaurNothlit

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Re: Earth Is Paradise For Aliens
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2011, 11:29:01 PM »
On the subject of diseases: I highly doubt that earth diseases could even affect an alien immune system at all, except maybe in rare cases.  Diseases that affect humans do so because they evolved alongside humans.  Humans cannot get the same diseases that, say, cows do.  Mostly, of course.  There are exceptions to everything.

The reason that populations are vulnerable to foreign diseases is because those diseases evolved alongside similar organisms (like Europeans and Native Americans), whereas the other organisms' immune system had no analog of that disease to evolve to cope with.

Alien bodies would be so different from earth bodies that most disease organisms probably couldn't even survive inside them, and even if they could, they might not be able to do any damage.  For example, what would an organism that lives in the bloodstreams of animals do, if presented with a creature whose blood had a completely different chemical composition than anything found on earth?

Of course, if there were any disease organism that could survive and cause damage inside an alien body, it would cause massive damage, since the alien's immune system would be utterly bewildered by said disease.  Hence, why, when Ax finally did get sick in book #29, he got so sick that he needed brain surgery.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2011, 11:53:04 PM by DinosaurNothlit »

Offline Aquilai

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Re: Earth Is Paradise For Aliens
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2011, 12:17:28 AM »
Ah that's a good point the unlikelihood of diseases crossing over to different species but the way I reasoned was that Earth has millions of species of animals which all suffer from diseases at some point in their lives whether from infectious bacteria, fungi, parasites or viruses etc. Normally micro-organisms happily coexist with their larger counterparts because of evolution. I think your point is related more towards diseases that we know to affect us or animals we know of.

An alien in a foreign environment will be exposed for the first time to the multitude of micro-organisms that their planet would not have. Diseases emerge when a new host body exists that has no resistance to the infectious organisms. I would provide an example of War of the Worlds however that's a sci-fi too I can't really provide a real life example! Micro-organisms can die/not survive in a host but then a new one will inevitably try to take it's place. Unless the alien has a very advanced adaptive immunity they cannot survive for very long in an alien environment. If there were many Andalite's on earth then over time the ones that had the best adaptive immunity would produce offspring who would like you said evolve with and cope with the diseases that will affect them. On their own I wouldn't expect them to survive for very long.

In the case of genetically created aliens such as the Hork Bajir it's possible they could be designed in such a way to be resistant to infectious agents but the Yeerks, Andalites, Taxxons themselves would succumb very quickly to it's not so seemingly hostile environment unless their original/home environment had evolved extremely (almost identically) similarly to Earth's which is very very unlikely.
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Offline Zero_Messiah

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Re: Earth Is Paradise For Aliens
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2011, 09:04:47 AM »
There are issues besides merely diseases.

Also, Ax getting sick in book 29 was an andalite disease.... which should actually not be a disease but a problem that andalites face. From what we are told, the tria gland collects disease organisms into itself (how this is biologically possible is unknown) and when it ruptures (due to inflammation), the diseases are spread throughout the body and Ax proceeds to die, since the part affected most quickly would be his brain (tria gland was at the back of his head).

This actually doesn't make sense, since;

Morphing does not transfer disease unless it's a genetic disease.
Morphing would have sent the tria gland into Z-Space; the progression of the organisms would have either be held still and or killed, since morphing does not 'return them' back.

But more to the point.

One issue that should have been noted is the indifference in gravity; the reference is only made once to Erek who says that the Chee were creaed in a gravity four times stronger than Earth's.

For the hork bajir, and the andalites however, the gravity difference should have been noticeable. Hork Bajir live in a shattered planet; it's gravity would have to be a lot less than a full planet's. Unless the HB homeworld was so huge that even when shattered, it held a gravity stronger than Earth, the majority of the aliens in the series should have problems with just day to day walking.

And if you say they may have lived on a world whose gravity was stronger, therefore, they would be unaffected by earth's weaker gravity, there are side effects of reduced gravity; mainly that there is reduced load on the bones, which results in excess bone being shed to conserve the body's energy. Translated; the aliens would have gotten weaker over time. A visual example exists in the pixar movie, Wall-E. The humans have lived so long in an artifical gravity that they've all become fat, and their bones are barely able to support themselves; they have to use hover chairs to get around.

Unless the Yeerks altered the planet's gravity (which I would have think the rest of the world would have noticed) the aliens should probably have encountered some problems.

Furthermore, the argument that diseases wouldn't survive constantly in an unexposed alien body sounds right, except that this simply gives the aliens a ticking timer; they have at best, extremely high resistance to the disease at first, but with continued exposure and subsequent success over the bacteria, bacteria mutates. Diseases that andalites, hork bajir and yeerks/taxxons may have been extremely resistant to at first would eventually mutate due to their constant exposure to a foreign body; bacteria adapts much quicker than normal evolution, and this is why when you take anti-biotics, you are asked to complete the course; failure to do so may allow the remaining disease organisms to become resistant to the anti-biotics, such that the next time they attack the body, Ax may just collapse and die.

Mutating diseases is why the world is still plagued by illness; this is why when someone suffers an illness in childhood which is later controlled, when it breaks out  again years later(such as when they are old and have a weakened immune system) the effects would be vastly more significant than the original disease.

And 3 years is a lot of time, time which they are spent pretty much in all over the world, in other planets, touching foreign aliens and morphing animals. Any of them could have fallen sick, and really, if they had, that was pretty much game-end for the animorphs. Ax being sick can't be cured; there are no andalite doctors. any of the animorphs get sick, and they go to the hospital. subsequent anomalies with their blood reports will force the yeerks to discover who they are; if they decide not to get a doctor, the affected animorph may very well die.

Aside from the gravity and the realistic possibility of disease mutation, there is also the problem of the atmospheric difference. Someone brought up that earth animals are hardy and can last in eviroments they are not built for; this usually only applies to habitat; no animal has been built to survive breathing a completely different form of air than what it was evolved to breathe on. No animal (ithout genetic manipulation) ever will. It would be like asking a human to start breathing nitrogen gas and still be able to walk, talk and perform as if he were breathing oxygen.

Animals on a planet are built to survive typically on that planet alone. And some rare cases exist where the animal is built to survive in a very specific type of habitat; this is why beached whales die despite being created on earth; they were evolved exclusively to live in an enviroment where their mass would not kill them. A beached whale is so heavy on land that it cannot actualy move itself.

Ultimately, it just makes it so that earth seems to be a natural 'safe zone' for all aliens; they will never have to worry about dying from anything other than a twitchy tail blade or dracon beam/shredder fire or starvation. And of course, wild animal attacks.

Offline Aquilai

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Re: Earth Is Paradise For Aliens
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2011, 10:55:38 AM »
I agree with virtually all of that but RYTX is right that animals usually can handle different environments. The example of a beached whale is pretty extreme since there are very few examples of purely aquatic based lifeforms being out of their habitat. From our limited understanding of science we can work out the bare essentials for carbon based life. Oxygen's purpose is for respiration and only in very different organisms such as certain plants/bacteria do they have other methods of getting energy to live. Humans living in different areas across the globe are perfect examples of how it's definitely possible to survive eg Nepal high altitude (low air density) compared to the more normal slightly above sea level.

Also agree with gravity to a certain extent. It is possible for plants to live and grow in space where there is no artificial gravity for extended periods of time.  I think the longest time an astronaut has been living in space is 2 years obviously they would need to do certain exercises and there would be discomfort returning to Earth ground level gravity but it is possible to survive for extended periods. People adapt but the disease issue isn't something that can be so easily shrugged off. Like you said one hospital trip with blood analysis then they would be screwed as per plot.

The books could have included more scenarios like this in but it would have taken away time for the plot. In all sci-fi there are limits to realism and that just can't be helped if you want to have a good story too.
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Re: Earth Is Paradise For Aliens
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2011, 12:27:15 PM »
Quote
Does this ualify as a KASU, or just immense suspension of disbelief?

I'm going to go with the ladder. Because you also have to believe that Lauren and Chapman were getting adequate nourishment from the liquified grass supplements they were eating when Alloran, Elfangor and Arbron were transporting them to Earth.

Then there's the fact that the Yeerks are transporting human hosts off world (including but not limited to Visser One's host body) with no complications. It isn't just air and salt you have to worry about. It's concentration of the planet's radiation from their unique position in their respective solar systems. (From what I understand of the Hork-Bajir's home system, the Animorphs' skin should have been redder than my bare behind the day I first learned to use the F-word)

As for Visser Three's morphs, I always worked it out that he was never in morph for that long. So even if the aliens were suffering any sort of ill effects, he would be out of morph long before it would actually start to kill the animal.

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Re: Earth Is Paradise For Aliens
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2011, 01:54:13 PM »
Hmm...what about the Veleek?  :valeek:

It was from a gaseous environment, with lower gravity, gliding on the clouds of a planet that could float in H2O.

Then it came to earth, and it was just as versatile... :shrug:
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Offline Aquilai

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Re: Earth Is Paradise For Aliens
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2011, 07:56:39 PM »
Wasn't it mutated? I'd need to reread anyway...
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Re: Earth Is Paradise For Aliens
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2011, 09:50:25 PM »
I don't think all of these "problems" are quite as far-fetched as they first appear.

1) Diseases

Even if diseases did miraculously mutate to affect aliens, it wouldn't necessarily spell disaster.  Remember, aliens own alien technology.  How much you want to bet that yeerks have advanced medicine?  At the very least they could probably walk through a biofilter and zap whatever is giving them problems.  Ax would have the biggest risk, since he is living out in the middle of nowhere with no readily available healthcare.  But he is one person who doesn't have a lot of contact with others in his natural form.

2) Environments and Gravity

This one seems like it would cause a lot of problems until you examine it more closely.  Then you realize it makes perfect sense for Andalites, Yeerks, Taxxons, Hork-bajir, Arn, Leerans, and Humans to all have similar planet types.  Here is why.

The story starts with the andalites.  They have space travel and explore places, many of them uninhabitable.  But then they come across this planet that isn't pretty, but it has technically livable conditions, including an ecosystem.  Since they can survive there, they land and discover the yeerks.  The yeerks steal andalite ships and go out into the galaxy to seerch for hosts.

And do you think the yeerks would search for species to infest that live on planets that can't support a yeerk pool?  No.  They actively search for places with terrains that are at least mildly comparable to their homeworld.  Similar gravity and air and whatnot.  We don't hear much about all the worlds the yeerks had to pass up because they were unsuitable.  We only hear of the ones that were, where the yeerks began invasions.  Earth, Leera, the taxxon and hork-bajir homeworlds.  All places where all the species can and have survived, albeit with varying comfortability.

As for Visser Three's morphs, the visser himself had to be able to share the creature's environment at least long enough to acquire it.  Also, keep in mind that you can throw a human into the middle of the ocean and they can survive for two hours.  No human could live out in the ocean for long, but they don't have to.  Just a couple hours.  So it isn't hard to believe that the visser can morph critters when the bodies aren't expected to live out their entire lifespan in that location.

3) Food

Would you be surprised if a human could get nourishment from eating an andalite?  If to Ax, andalite grass = grade A steak, then earth grass might = tofu.  They might not be equal, but both can give sustenance.

I probably forgot some stuff I was going to say, but that's all I'm going to type for right now.

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Re: Earth Is Paradise For Aliens
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2011, 09:58:00 PM »
I went cross eyed by the third post..............a nd the reason pretty much everything can survive on earth is because of PLOT CONVENIENCE! If everything happened naturally then there would be no series. They proabably would have been killed first mission, visser three would drop dead, nad the hork bjair would lose fights against regular humans. Plot convenience people. plot convenience. It exists for our own good.
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