Erek's stance on violence

[Liz]

I was thinking that throughout the series, Erek seems to change his mind a lot on acceptable actions to take in the war and what level of violence is acceptable.

At the beginning of #10, Erek was not necessarily opposed to violence, and would have fought the Yeerks were it not for his programming.  That was what I thought, anyway, based on his tone and how he talked about the Yeerks.

Well, obviously after the battle in #10 he decided that he didn't want to take part in any fighting anymore.

In #26 Erek was very eager to fight the Howlers, and even wondered if the Ellimist might remove the prohibition against violence for him when things were looking bad for the Animorphs.

But in #53, Erek was clearly opposed to what Jake was doing in order to win the final battle, and only went along by force.  And he drained the Dracon beams feeling that it was the right thing to do, even though it ended up making the situation worse.

So why is it Erek had no problem with killing the Howlers, even after Jake found out they were really children and the killing was just a game to them, but he didn't want to help Jake defeat the Yeerks?

I think that he was much more involved in the actual fighting in the latter case, so that may be a factor.

Thoughts?

Also, this is just a random thing that I was wondering, but in #29, Cassie told Erek that if she didn't return from the Yeerk pool in time to operate on Ax, he would have to let Ax die.  Why couldn't Erek have operated?  Does that count as violence?  I guess you are cutting someone's head open, so... xDDD

[morfowt]

well the howlers killed his creators, the pemalites...so it's like you're strictly prohibited against violence, and seeing some villian kill your parents, and knowing full well that if you fought, you could have beaten that villian and stop him from killing your parents...now a few years later, you see that villian again. wouldn't you wanna fight him?

as for wondering whether the ellimist would remove the prohibition...well the situation seemed hopeless, unless that happened.

in #53...well I'll have to re-read that cuz I don't quite remember...

and in #29...erek said nobody knew how to do surgery...

[Duff]

yea thats true, i never thought of it like that. erek was there when the howlers killed his creators, knowing that he could tear them apart but not being able to, it wasnt like his ancestors or anything, and now he has to watch as the same thing happens to his friends the animorphs

Aside from 26 he seemed pretty consistant after his change of heart in 10. I think his change of attitude in the end came from the fact that he wasnt helping them stop the yeerks from creating some death ray and protecting earth, it was open war and their goal was to kill all the yeerks and he couldnt be a part of that

[Liz]

I guess Erek just had a limit to how far he would go to stop the Yeerks, but when it came to the Howlers, he wanted revenge badly enough that he didn't have any limits...

and in #29...erek said nobody knew how to do surgery...

Yeah, that's what I figured, but Cassie asked Tobias to do it before he got sick too.

[morfowt]

yeah and that's a part I don't quite get...why ask tobias? He's not even used to a human body, and he definetly can't do surgery as a hawk...

[Duff]

cause she just didnt want to do it herself, i kno if one of my friends needed brain surgery i wouldnt exactly be jumping up excitedly lol

[RYTX]

Marco said it best; you know the situation is bad when Erek suggest using violence; that was outta desperation
what I wanna know is how the chee supposedly came up with things like pasteurizing milk; basically boiling bacteria to death, primitive but they are still alive.

[Liz]

That's a very good point.  I wonder where they draw the line on "violence," as in, it's okay to kill bacteria or plants but not animals?

And shouldn't the Chee be vegetarians in that case?  Well, they don't actually eat, but I remember Erek had a burger in one of the books.

[morfowt]

well he didn't exactly kill the animal to make the burger. he just ordered meat from an animal that was already killed. erek can't harm an animal, but that doesn't mean he can make humans stop killing animals.

[Liz]

I dunno, it all seems very blurry to me, regarding what the Chee can and can't do.

[Phoenix004]

well the howlers killed his creators, the pemalites...so it's like you're strictly prohibited against violence, and seeing some villian kill your parents, and knowing full well that if you fought, you could have beaten that villian and stop him from killing your parents...now a few years later, you see that villian again. wouldn't you wanna fight him?

I'd say that's an accurate way of putting it. Erek may have been opposed to violence, even forbidden to do it by his programming, but that wouldn't change his feelings towards the people who slaughtered his creators for fun. Remember in #26 when they saw that first Howler and Erek started losing control of his hologram? Clearly that was because of how angry he was.

[Duff]

Marco said it best; you know the situation is bad when Erek suggest using violence; that was outta desperation
what I wanna know is how the chee supposedly came up with things like pasteurizing milk; basically boiling bacteria to death, primitive but they are still alive.

maybe they calculated that it would save alot more human lives by killing the bacteria, but im not sure if it really works like that. I know that when put into a situation they have to choose the least violent option even if it still involves violence but i dont know if they can really make decisions based on that logic when they arent being pressed and doing nothing isnt an option

[Tim Bruening]

I was thinking that throughout the series, Erek seems to change his mind a lot on acceptable actions to take in the war and what level of violence is acceptable.

At the beginning of #10, Erek was not necessarily opposed to violence, and would have fought the Yeerks were it not for his programming.  That was what I thought, anyway, based on his tone and how he talked about the Yeerks.

Well, obviously after the battle in #10 he decided that he didn't want to take part in any fighting anymore.

In #26 Erek was very eager to fight the Howlers, and even wondered if the Ellimist might remove the prohibition against violence for him when things were looking bad for the Animorphs.

But in #53, Erek was clearly opposed to what Jake was doing in order to win the final battle, and only went along by force.  And he drained the Dracon beams feeling that it was the right thing to do, even though it ended up making the situation worse.

So why is it Erek had no problem with killing the Howlers, even after Jake found out they were really children and the killing was just a game to them, but he didn't want to help Jake defeat the Yeerks?

I think that he was much more involved in the actual fighting in the latter case, so that may be a factor.

Thoughts?

Also, this is just a random thing that I was wondering, but in #29, Cassie told Erek that if she didn't return from the Yeerk pool in time to operate on Ax, he would have to let Ax die.  Why couldn't Erek have operated?  Does that count as violence?  I guess you are cutting someone's head open, so... xDDD

I gathered that Erek had no medical expertise, let alone any brain surgery expertise!

[Chad32]

I think he overreacted a bit in 53, because how else were they going to get around his programming, than by threatening someone? Not that I think they'd actually kill or torture chapman. Even Jake at his darkest is unlikely to do that to a Human. Killing Tom to keep him from becomeing the next eva was a bit different than executing or torturing a prisoner.