Did anyone dislike Jake's orders? (regarding Rachel)

[wotw2112]

True...I suppose neither was really a clear 100% suicide mission without the hindsight we have.  However, filmstu2005 has a point.  It's easier to demorph and remorph on the bladeship (or anywhere else for that matter) than on the battlefield especially for the crippled auxillaries.  And, as previously mentioned, they could have sent one that could walk.

It just seems that taking two or three out of the pathetic decoy battle to go with Rachel would have been prudent. 

As to trusting them...why not send Marco and Tobias with Rachel? (I'm really not sure.  Maybe there was a legit reason not to.)

[Vivi9087]

Well you're right about the Aux that could have been sent, but he couldn't send Marco because Marco would have caught on too fast.  In fact did catch on as soon as he learned Rachel was on the bladeship.  As for Tobias, he was needed for the Taxxon morph to eat the fake Cassie.  Only he and Ax had extensive experience with that morph and he needed Ax for the computer hacking.

[Tiana]

Thanks for your input/thoughts guys

This part of the ending just really bothered me so it was nice to talk it out.

I just hated the fact that Jake was basically condemning Rachel to death, just because she was the only one brave enough to do the awful task. He told her that he didn't have a plan for her to get out (and yes lol I know she said she "liked it" that way or smthn). Again, why not Cassie? Or Marco? Or Tobias? They've all nearly died, risked their lives etc, and are brave in their own way.

[Chad32]

Cassie has already proven that she wouldn't kill Tom. She proved it in The Ultimate when she let him escape with the morphing cube.

Marco has a ruthless nature, and if he was in on the whole thing he might have done it. However, that would make one less person to fight on the pool ship. So that's iffy.

I don't know if Ax couldn't be the one to eat the fake Cassie as well as hack the computers.

[wotw2112]

Why couldn't Jake have gone? (Either with or without Rachel?)  It just would have seemed far more appropriate, consistent, and heroic.  Then again perhaps it wasn't supposed to be (though considering the rest of the series I don't buy it).

And I still think Marco could've gone too.  He would've gone even if he realized it was a suicide mission (or close enough).

Granted: it couldn't have possibly been Cassie, Ax or Tobias (because of the Taxxon thing - then again Ax could have done that part too)

[filmstu2005]

Why couldn't Jake have gone? (Either with or without Rachel?)  It just would have seemed far more appropriate, consistent, and heroic.  Then again perhaps it wasn't supposed to be (though considering the rest of the series I don't buy it).

And I still think Marco could've gone too.  He would've gone even if he realized it was a suicide mission (or close enough).

Granted: it couldn't have possibly been Cassie, Ax or Tobias (because of the Taxxon thing - then again Ax could have done that part too)

You're absolutely right about Jake. And before anyone tries to argue that Jake was needed to run the mission on the Yeerk Pool ship, think again. Did the Animorphs really need Jake to be there? NO. Think hard. Think about the mission every step of the way and you'll realize that no, they really could have done without him if it came down to it. He wasn't entirely essential to the plot there.

 1) They'd already been through dozens of missions without Jake, and they made it out alive just fine. Besides, Cassie was "the closet thing to having [Jake] there." His own words. She could make the right decisions, as well as Marco. Together they equaled Jake. And if you ask me, neither Marco or Cassie would've flushed a thousand Yeerks into cold space. That would've saved Jake from falling into despair after the war was over, if he hadn't been there.
2) There were no other major decisions to be made. Everything could have been planned out beforehand, as it already was. Hell, Marco could've morphed Jake to fool Tom.

Jake could've accompanied Rachel to kill Tom. Or at least replaced her. So either he was just a huge coward (didn't even have a plan to help her escape? What kind of cousin is that?) or KA missed out on some serious brainstorming.  Like I said, none of the characters were being themselves, except Rachel in her death scene. She was so calm, smart, SANE. The only part about Jake I liked in the end was that speech he gave right before the battle started. He was so adamant on winning and it made him look crazy as f***, but I respected his will. He just wanted to win, no matter the cost. Put all the b.s. aside to do what you have to do. Strangely admirable.

[wotw2112]

Amen.  The end sequence just didn't seem to fit.  It was almost like an entirely separate story masquerading as Animorphs. 

It is what it is but it could have been soooooooooo much better. 

And Jake definitely ended up being far crazier than Rachel.

[morfowt]

Let's see thinking...what about when the yeerks were about to fire at the engine room or whatever room it was? if Jake wasn't there, who would've warned them the yeerks were coming...

and that's all I got...

[Liz]

You're absolutely right about Jake. And before anyone tries to argue that Jake was needed to run the mission on the Yeerk Pool ship, think again. Did the Animorphs really need Jake to be there? NO. Think hard. Think about the mission every step of the way and you'll realize that no, they really could have done without him if it came down to it. He wasn't entirely essential to the plot there.

 1) They'd already been through dozens of missions without Jake, and they made it out alive just fine. Besides, Cassie was "the closet thing to having [Jake] there." His own words. She could make the right decisions, as well as Marco. Together they equaled Jake. And if you ask me, neither Marco or Cassie would've flushed a thousand Yeerks into cold space. That would've saved Jake from falling into despair after the war was over, if he hadn't been there.
2) There were no other major decisions to be made. Everything could have been planned out beforehand, as it already was. Hell, Marco could've morphed Jake to fool Tom.

Jake could've accompanied Rachel to kill Tom. Or at least replaced her. So either he was just a huge coward (didn't even have a plan to help her escape? What kind of cousin is that?) or KA missed out on some serious brainstorming.  Like I said, none of the characters were being themselves, except Rachel in her death scene. She was so calm, smart, SANE. The only part about Jake I liked in the end was that speech he gave right before the battle started. He was so adamant on winning and it made him look crazy as f***, but I respected his will. He just wanted to win, no matter the cost. Put all the b.s. aside to do what you have to do. Strangely admirable.

I think Jake was still needed, not necessarily for the final battle, but for what came after.  He still had to negotiate with the Andalites and the Yeerks and it would be hard for the other Animorphs to deal with that themselves.

I think the story is more effective with Jake having to sacrifice someone else rather than himself.  We've seen that he's willing to sacrifice himself in MM#3, so I definitely don't think it's a question of being a coward.  It's an even more difficult decision to make when it's about another person, not yourself.  If Jake had died, then we wouldn't have seen his depression and dealing with his decision after the war, and that was part of what made the ending interesting to me.

I thought the speech Jake gave in the end was really amazing too.  I always thought he was kind of boring before, but I started to like his character reading those final books.

[wotw2112]

Good points but none of those things were relevant at the time of the decision.  Perhaps they made sense from a writer's standpoint but that's kind of immaterial.

It's just out of character for him to not go after Tom himself.

And the difficulty of the choice between condemning yourself and condemning someone else really depends on the nature of the person and situation.  Neither one is inherently more difficult.

Personally, I'm glad Jake went into a depression after the war.
It seemed an appropriate end for him.

[Tiana]

Cassie has already proven that she wouldn't kill Tom. She proved it in The Ultimate when she let him escape with the morphing cube.

Marco has a ruthless nature, and if he was in on the whole thing he might have done it. However, that would make one less person to fight on the pool ship. So that's iffy.

I don't know if Ax couldn't be the one to eat the fake Cassie as well as hack the computers.

Good point. I knew Ax couldn't be the one because he was too valuable in the technological sense (as well as dealing with the Andalites) to risk, so I put that in the OP.

The thing with Cassie though, is that she stopped JAKE from killing Tom(it wasn't her trying to kill Tom), which was to save Jake. So she herself is still capable of killing Tom.

Again thanks everyone for your input

[Duff]

Why couldn't Jake have gone? (Either with or without Rachel?)  It just would have seemed far more appropriate, consistent, and heroic.  Then again perhaps it wasn't supposed to be (though considering the rest of the series I don't buy it).

And I still think Marco could've gone too.  He would've gone even if he realized it was a suicide mission (or close enough).

Granted: it couldn't have possibly been Cassie, Ax or Tobias (because of the Taxxon thing - then again Ax could have done that part too)

He had a tough enough time condemning one of his friends to death, adding one person wouldnt have made it any less of a suicide mission, it would have just been killing one more person. So he could have picked either rachel or marco, and the choice was obvious/

You're absolutely right about Jake. And before anyone tries to argue that Jake was needed to run the mission on the Yeerk Pool ship, think again. Did the Animorphs really need Jake to be there? NO. Think hard. Think about the mission every step of the way and you'll realize that no, they really could have done without him if it came down to it. He wasn't entirely essential to the plot there.

Yes, he really was. Nobody else knew the entire plan, he was playing it really close to the chest. Again, divulging the entire plan to one of the others would have been risking them screwing something up. The plan was perfect as it was, and jake had to be the one to see it through.

Jake could've accompanied Rachel to kill Tom. Or at least replaced her. So either he was just a huge coward (didn't even have a plan to help her escape? What kind of cousin is that?)

he did have a way to get her out, but erek drained the power, rachel was just the backup if that plan failed, she wasnt plan a

or KA missed out on some serious brainstorming. 

this is really what it comes down to, KA wasnt looking for a way for all the characters to make it out alive, she wasnt looking at jakes plan like oh **** i have to kill someone, she developed the whole plan so that rachel would have to die because that made a great story, for all of the characters

[filmstu2005]

^^^You're glad he went into a depression? What kind of monster are you???

Lol. Kiddin dude. I agree with you. I think its more complex to walk into death's arms (suicide) than to send someone else to do it. Tom was Jake's brother. Jake knew the day would come when he would probably have to kill his own brother. I just wish he had the courage to kill Tom himself. Who knows? Maybe he could have won on the Blade Ship against all those Controllers. Maybe he could have saved Tom, and maybe died in the process.   Or spent the rest of his life completely miserable.

Actually Mirenne, I don't think Jake was needed afterwards to negotiate with the Andalites. Ax was a leader in his own right. They made him a Prince and gave him four morphing cubes! I think he/they could've handled it. lol

And you know what? i think the Animorphs wouldve gotten over Jake's death a lot easier than they did Rachel's. Cassie would of eventually moved on, Marco's already dealt with "death" in his past. He'd move on. Tobias would have Rachel, they'd be hurt but still find ways to move on. And personally, I feel Jake would want them to. He'd want them all to live their lives.

The REAL Jake would have sacrificed himself so that the others would be happy.  He's done it before, but what made this time so unique was that it was the climax, everything was on the line and it was his brother he had to face.

[wotw2112]

^^^You're glad he went into a depression? What kind of monster are you???

Lmao!  Ok, maybe a bit harsh.  But I think he went into the depression cause he knew it should have been him.  He knew - more than anyone else - that he'd made a mistake.

Jake wasn't Jake at the end.  Good points, all.

[Duff]

but he couldnt! it wasnt an option! he was needed to lead his plan, or risk the whole thing falling apart

even if it would have been more poetic or righteous or w/e if he had gone to face tom, it just wasnt possible

and he was definately needed to negotiate with the andalites, ax was still treated like an aristh and wasnt willing to stand up to the high counsel or w/e, yea he had made alot of progress but he wouldnt have been able to stick it to the andalites like jake did, the president couldnt have done a better job (not the current president, think of some good president lol)

i agree, im glad he went into depression, solely because i can look past my affection for the characters (unlike alot of people) and just see a great story, and that was a really interesting and tragic turn for his character