If Cassie had a lot more edge as a character...

[Alex Oiknine]

Yeah, I think I agree with the points listed since then.

As for who I am, I could tell you but then I'd have to kill you. Or not. Really, it's not that hard to figure out since I plaster my fanfic account everywhere. But I don't want to subject anyone to my really boring blog posts.

My really, really boring blog posts.

Besides that, my userpics are used by lots of users... Or a minimum of three users in that community anyway. They were made by what used to be my icon account, animorphfanatic. But I got so annoyed at the ads I deleted it and it has since purged.

[MegaJ]

I think the problem people are having with Cassie was that Cassie was very human. She made stupid, arrogant, foolish decisions based on some desperate desire to cling onto her morality in the face of war. Ironically I kind of like her as a character because of these psychological failures. It's exactly what a real, self-centered person with her sort of mind would do.

Yep. That's basically how I feel.

I could sorta of see how someone could think Cassie is a self-insert/Mary Sue but the fact that this thread can come up with bad qualities of Cassie proves that she isn't. Despite her saintly qualities, she is called out a lot on her moralizing and hypocrisy by the other characters. And while her "betrayal" at the end of the series ended up saving humanity, it also got Tom and Rachel killed and started a new war with a new enemy with morphing technology so she doesn't get away with it. I think she was a much needed voice to the group and the series to complete deconstruct the whole "kid superhero" genre by giving a perspective not usually heard in that type of media. It's usually all "kick butt and take names."

Maybe since Cassie was an unpopular character, Reynolds and Applegate took great care to establish that Cassie IS an integral part of the group and drive home the message of the series about the right and wrongs of war and not the who beat who. I don't really see it as favoritism, I actually thought Rachel and Tobias (the few books he has had) got to do cooler plots but YMMV.

And betrayal? Really?

[Alex Oiknine]

I could sorta of see how someone could think Cassie is a self-insert/Mary Sue but the fact that this thread can come up with bad qualities of Cassie proves that she isn't. Despite her saintly qualities, she is called out a lot on her moralizing and hypocrisy by the other characters. And while her "betrayal" at the end of the series ended up saving humanity, it also got Tom and Rachel killed and started a new war with a new enemy with morphing technology so she doesn't get away with it. I think she was a much needed voice to the group and the series to complete deconstruct the whole "kid superhero" genre by giving a perspective not usually heard in that type of media. It's usually all "kick butt and take names."

Maybe since Cassie was an unpopular character, Reynolds and Applegate took great care to establish that Cassie IS an integral part of the group and drive home the message of the series about the right and wrongs of war and not the who beat who. I don't really see it as favoritism, I actually thought Rachel and Tobias (the few books he has had) got to do cooler plots but YMMV.

Actually, considering several people here have noted a shift in their preference of Cassie to other characters, I doubt Cassie being disliked would have been a reason for giving her all those superpowers during the series being created.

After all, the "bad qualities of Cassie" tends to be that even her worst mistakes ended up being superhuman insights that the others were just too stupid to understand at the time, or something. Not that I consider Cassie to be a Mary-Sue, but she's not moving back to the top of my Animorph list anytime soon.

Also, FWIW, it seems pretty certain they would have not won the war without the Yeerks getting the morphing cube - it's what caused the Taxxons and many other Yeerks to defect, making the final battle possible (the chance of the Animorphs getting another shot before the Andalites turned the planet to charcoal wasn't very good). And in that final battle, it was Erek King who disabled the Pool Ship's weaponry which allowed the Blade Ship to get away (though it probably would have anyway - they very heavily noted its lack of agility). Rachel was pretty much doomed any way that last mission ended unless the ship could have been disabled, and that was anything but Cassie's fault.

The Andalites weren't going to let the Yeerks get away regardless of the morphing cube - they create thousands of grubs every time they reproduce; it doesn't exactly take them long to build an army the instant they find a planet with suitable hosts. And I doubt The One really cared in the least about the morphing cube.

All in all, I'm not sure how any of that could be pointed toward Cassie with any ease, unless we were going to assume Earth could be saved without being turned to charcoal without the morphing cube being forfeited.

As for plots, I'm having a hard time seeing how Rachel's plots could be considered cool compared to Cassie's :/ She basically never graces my favorite Animorphs books lists precisely because of the plot. Whereas Cassie's often do, even if I may be a disappointed with execution at times. But, as you said, to each their own and mileage may vary, etc., etc.

[Kotetsu1442]

After all, the "bad qualities of Cassie" tends to be that even her worst mistakes ended up being superhuman insights that the others were just too stupid to understand at the time, or something. Not that I consider Cassie to be a Mary-Sue, but she's not moving back to the top of my Animorph list anytime soon.

She's not a complete Mary-Sue but, along with being amazingly gifted, her viewpoints often reflect the author's. Of course, in fairness Cassie also ends up indecisive and hesitant about ideas that KA may have a very strong stance on. So no, not really a Mary-Sue, but it's fair to note that she does have some of those traits to some degree.

[Alex Oiknine]

After all, the "bad qualities of Cassie" tends to be that even her worst mistakes ended up being superhuman insights that the others were just too stupid to understand at the time, or something. Not that I consider Cassie to be a Mary-Sue, but she's not moving back to the top of my Animorph list anytime soon.

She's not a complete Mary-Sue but, along with being amazingly gifted, her viewpoints often reflect the author's. Of course, in fairness Cassie also ends up indecisive and hesitant about ideas that KA may have a very strong stance on. So no, not really a Mary-Sue, but it's fair to note that she does have some of those traits to some degree.

But as I said, I don't consider her to be a Mary-Sue. Just the most unrealistically gifted of the characters.

[MegaJ]

As for plots, I'm having a hard time seeing how Rachel's plots could be considered cool compared to Cassie's :/ She basically never graces my favorite Animorphs books lists precisely because of the plot. Whereas Cassie's often do, even if I may be a disappointed with execution at times. But, as you said, to each their own and mileage may vary, etc., etc.

Hmm, really? Cassie is a favorite of mine, but I can't say I liked too many of her books. I think the only ones I liked were The Departure, The Sickness, and The Unexpected. The rest were kinda blah for me, even The Prophecy fell flat (I didn't like the tone really) and especially the "funny" books she got. Whereas Rachel's struggle with knowing where the line was fascinated me.

In any case, perhaps the reason Cassie got these plots and became a space time anomaly was to connect her to the war, perhaps the reason why I didn't really like her books was because she doesn't have a personal connection to the Yeerk conflict or it didn't change her as dynamically as it did Rachel. IDK.

[Alex Oiknine]

As for plots, I'm having a hard time seeing how Rachel's plots could be considered cool compared to Cassie's :/ She basically never graces my favorite Animorphs books lists precisely because of the plot. Whereas Cassie's often do, even if I may be a disappointed with execution at times. But, as you said, to each their own and mileage may vary, etc., etc.

Hmm, really? Cassie is a favorite of mine, but I can't say I liked too many of her books. I think the only ones I liked were The Departure, The Sickness, and The Unexpected. The rest were kinda blah for me, even The Prophecy fell flat (I didn't like the tone really) and especially the "funny" books she got. Whereas Rachel's struggle with knowing where the line was fascinated me.

In any case, perhaps the reason Cassie got these plots and became a space time anomaly was to connect her to the war, perhaps the reason why I didn't really like her books was because she doesn't have a personal connection to the Yeerk conflict or it didn't change her as dynamically as it did Rachel. IDK.

Rachel got the Giant Squid useless plot of doom, the Oatmeal, Animorphs' version of Justin Timberlake and a few others that just drove me nuts with annoyance at wasted material and like... just entertainment stuff.

Cassie could have just as easily been destined to be an Animorph because she was an estreen! XD

[MegaJ]

Hmm, The Unexpected I suppose was overall useless but I still liked it, putting the Anis in a high pressure situation and it was interesting to see how they would get themselves through that mess.

The oatmeal book was so absurd it ended working, thanks to all the lampshading of the characters to just how absurd the situation was.

The crocodile book was hilarious, and I still crack a smile reading it.

Oh, thread topic? Cassie? She's cool.

[Kotetsu1442]

Rachel got the Giant Squid useless plot of doom, the Oatmeal, Animorphs' version of Justin Timberlake and a few others that just drove me nuts with annoyance at wasted material and like... just entertainment stuff.

I don't see The Exposed (with the giant squid) as being that bad, sure it didn't progress the ongoing storyline in a meaningful way (other than introducing the Drode, all though all he ever really does is serve as plot devices rather than be an actual character), but it makes sense for those filler books to occur because their plots are usually based on the Yeerks making a move and the Anis being on the defensive rather than the other way around; which is just a much a part of the Anis' war as them making their own offensive strategies to slow down the Yeerk invasion (in this case, it wasn't a Yeerk plot, but same idea, the situation placed the Anis on the defensive and they had to act to protect their interests before they could continue their efforts).

Yes, the oatmeal was ridiculous of course, and even more annoying is the fact that they never acknowledged it as a potential weapon again even though they acted as though they were required to use it as a weapon that once as soon as they learned about it.

But what Justin Timberlake are you talking about?
Edit: Nevermind, I get it. But Jeremy Jason McCole wasn't Justin Timberlake, he was Jonathan Taylor Thomas. If all JJM/JTT's character clues (such as the fairly uncommon use of all three names as a celebrity) are not enough then look at the show he is on: Power House on which Jeremy Jason McCole is, from the perspective of a teenage girl, the star...unless you count the comedian who plays his dad. Come on get with the 90s  .

[Alex Oiknine]

But what Justin Timberlake are you talking about?
Edit: Nevermind, I get it. But Jeremy Jason McCole wasn't Justin Timberlake, he was Jonathan Taylor Thomas. If all JJM/JTT's character clues (such as the fairly uncommon use of all three names as a celebrity) are not enough then look at the show he is on: Power House on which Jeremy Jason McCole is, from the perspective of a teenage girl, the star...unless you count the comedian who plays his dad. Come on get with the 90s  .

You're right. I had a brain fart and meant to say JTT, who was the adorable Simba Cub and Home Improvement, etc., etc. I loved JTT, but I ended up saying Justin Timberlake, haha.

I don't know, I liked Cassie's books more plot-wise. My first book wasThe Message and it remains one of my favorites (the only useful/good book involving a cetacean, IMO). She gets the book with Aldrea, even if Aldrea was poorly portrayed. She gets the book where she rescues Ax... There are many more Cassie books I am likely to read because of the plot of that particular story in comparison to Rachel.  So I feel like it's hard to argue that Rachel got the better plot-lines - she got so much irrelevant stuff to the overall story arc or character development I had a hard time bringing myself to add them to my collection whenever they came out. I am far more likely to read a Cassie book over a Rachel book to this day for the same reason.

A veerrry hard time. Whereas Cassie had the way cooler plots IMO most of the time, save maybe two books I can think of in an offhand manner, but she had a ridiculous amount of superb capabilities, whereas Rachel is just brave-going-on-bloodthirsty. Point being, my problem is Cassie is too strong a character who gets (as far as I can tell) a lot of the way-awesome qualities. The other Animorphs? Not so much, except that they're related to important heroes or villains in some way or another.