Author Topic: Could Yeerks Really Evolve?  (Read 6110 times)

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Offline Ferahgo

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Could Yeerks Really Evolve?
« on: June 11, 2010, 02:19:57 PM »
As a biologist by education, I've always enjoyed pondering the biology, physiology, and possible evolutionary origins of fictional aliens. And of all the unique and bizarre alien species in the Animorphs series, one of the ones I find least likely to be able to exist in real life are the Yeerks.

It's not hard to imagine that an intelligent parasite could evolve. What's hard to imagine is how one could evolve to occupy hosts in the manner that Yeerks do. The reasons for this are several. In order for anything to evolve a particular way, the selected traits need to simply be beneficial to the organism's rate of reproduction. Yeerks cannot reproduce while in a host, and nor can they feed. In order to do either of these things, the Yeerk needs to exit the host, leaving it in the most vulnerable state possible.

I'm trying to fathom a likely evolutionary precursor to the modern Yeerk. I'm imagining that the earliest Yeerks infested much simpler animals, probably free-swimming ones that cohabited the Pools on the Yeerk home planet. How did the Yeerks keep the host body from killing or consuming the Yeerk once it left the host to reproduce or feed? Before the Yeerks managed to take over more advanced hosts, they would not have been able to "organize" themselves to, say, restrain a host body while the host's Yeerk fed.

The only way I can imagine that the Yeerk mode of parasitism evolved is if the Yeerks had some kind of massively dangerous natural predator in the pools, and the only way to escape or fight against it was to evolve to infest others (or the predator itself, somehow). This still doesn't answer the question of how the Yeerks survived in the early days when needing to exit the host.

(As a slightly-related aside, I don't personally have a moral problem with the Yeerks infesting anything on their home planet, including the semi-sentient Gedds. The relationship the Yeerks had with the Gedds seemed far more similar to the human relationship with cows, an analogy that Karen tried to make in book #19. It was something the Yeerks did not NEED to do to survive, but which strongly enhanced their enjoyment of life [yes, beef strongly enhances my enjoyment of life, damnit]. In other words, anything endemic to the natural ecosystem of the planet would probably have not been avoidable from an evolutionary perspective. It's the flying around the galaxy enslaving other races thing that's problematic.)

Sorry for the ramble, just something that's been on my mind lately.


Offline MoppingBear

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Re: Could Yeerks Really Evolve?
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2010, 02:45:47 PM »
they do have a predetor, i forget what it was called, but it was even able to suck a yeerk out of a host.  planet wise, or at least for a few species, they are possible, but not for species from a different planet.  also, was it ever explicitly stated that they have to leave hosts if they are on their homeworl? cuz their sun would provide the rays, so they might be able to get  them without exiting the host all the way.  the fact that they cannot reproduce in the host is irrelephant, because it allows them to reach new pools they wouldn't be able to otherwise and thus increases their ability to reproduce.  In fact, that was probably the initial ability, simply enter the host's ear, and then exit it some time later in another pool where they can hit on foreign Yeerks.  Then, sometime later, the ability control was evolved to better select where the Yeerk would be dropped off, reentering the host was probably unneccessary, it was probably only when they became a true inteligent society that they started keeping their host through multiple feeding cycles.
And if it was discovered that cows are sentient most (though of course not all) people would start objecting to eating them.

Offline Myitt

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Re: Could Yeerks Really Evolve?
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2010, 02:53:46 PM »
This has been discussed on here before (of course...because we're all uber-nerds XD) but I think you bring it up in a more biological light than the other thread, which focused more on the evolution of Yeerk intelligence than the evolution of Yeerk biology in general.

I think most of your points are pretty logical ways in which a creature like a Yeerk could have evolved; an aquatic host, or semi-aquatic (the Gedds did have webbed feet, if I remember right, and poor walking/mismatched leg sizes) would make the most sense.  Earlier hosts could also have drank from the Yeerk pools and the first Yeerks that evolved the sense of infestation could have entered the first hosts this way.  Another interesting thing is that it seems really likely that the first few Yeerks who tried to enter a host probably ended up killing the host in the process, and maybe even killing themselves off inadvertently...so the Yeerks who were able to successfully infest a host would survive and pass on something biological, instinctual, that would allow its offspring a chance for the same success.  Maybe Yeerks who could infest started preferring to mate and die off with other Yeerks who could infest, and those who couldn't infest were a sort of biological or cultural rival tribe in their "view"? (Hah, Yeerk jokes.)  Sort of like early Homo sapiens and Homo neanderthalensis.  

I wonder if there was an early precursor to the vanarx in book #2, the "Yeerkbane" that sucked Yeerks out of their hosts?  Perhaps that form of the vanarx evolved as Yeerks began to selectively take hosts more often, whereas the earlier form might have either had jaws or just siphoned Yeerks up from the pool instead of sucking them out of hosts (seems like an awful lot of effort to get at a food source that is readily available and totally helpless outside of a host...but whatever, it made for an interesting one shot Yeerk predator :P)

The idea of infesting the predator itself is kind of interesting, the vanarx didn't appear to be infestable (big, purple wormy thing with...no eyes?  Ears?  Wasn't really described in detail)...but this is an idea similar to one that Stephenie Meyer used in The Host, her novel about alien parasites.  If you haven't read it, you might like it, even if you hate Stephenie Meyer (sorry Twifans, but I really think she's awful...except for The Host, which is like "alien parasite 90210" instead of "sparkly vampire 90210".  Slightly more bearable, to my Animorphs sensibilities :P)

russianspy brings up a good point about genetic variation--there had to be some way to get around to other pools, but if this was the driving factor for Yeerk infestation evolving, then what about all those other generations/millennia that Yeerks spent in their own pools, presumably separate from other Yeerk pools?  I always sort of like to think that because it rained there every night, there must have been channels or tunnels of some sort that would've allowed Yeerks from different pools to comingle with at least some of the local pools.  Otherwise how did Yeerks evolve around the entire planet?  It's mentioned that the Yeerks who rebel against the Andalites in Seerow's day stopped their stolen ships on the other side of the Yeerk homeworld to pick up other Yeerks from different pools before blasting off again.  Maybe the planet was small enough, or the pools were big enough, that intermingling wasn't such a big deal; or, the pool levels could have once been a more elaborate freshwater ocean or whatever.  I photoshopped (with Dave's help x3) a planet under Pez's fanart that was supposed to depict my version of the Yeerk homeworld, where the pools were all settled into these big round craters...who knows, but it seemed to make sense at the time? XD

And of course, in the end, we can always say "Crayak did it"  ::)


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Offline Ferahgo

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Re: Could Yeerks Really Evolve?
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2010, 05:24:54 PM »
also, was it ever explicitly stated that they have to leave hosts if they are on their homeworl? cuz their sun would provide the rays, so they might be able to get  them without exiting the host all the way.  the fact that they cannot reproduce in the host is irrelephant, because it allows them to reach new pools they wouldn't be able to otherwise and thus increases their ability to reproduce.  In fact, that was probably the initial ability, simply enter the host's ear, and then exit it some time later in another pool where they can hit on foreign Yeerks.  Then, sometime later, the ability control was evolved to better select where the Yeerk would be dropped off, reentering the host was probably unneccessary, it was probably only when they became a true inteligent society that they started keeping their host through multiple feeding cycles.
And if it was discovered that cows are sentient most (though of course not all) people would start objecting to eating them.

I don't think it's irrelevant, because as soon as the Yeerk exits the host for any reason, the host is no longer under its control. In the case of the host being a predator, it is extremely likely that it will want to consume the Yeerk as soon as the Yeerk leaves. If it's not a predator, it's hard to imagine why the Yeerks would have evolved to infest it in the first place. These things seem a bit contradictory to me, which is one of the things I find confusing about Yeerk evolution. They would have needed an initial evolutionary reason to infest a host, as well as a way to avoid predation when leaving the host.

There are portable Kandronas in some of the books, including very large ones, but the Yeerks still have to leave the host to feed. I think the composition of the Yeerk pools absorb the Kandrona rays and convert it into a form that the Yeerks can absorb in turn, sort of like the way that Earth plants turn sunlight into a form that animals can use as energy. I don't ever remember any mention of Yeerks being able to absorb Kandrona rays directly.

Otherwise, I think you have a very good point about genetic diversity, which is always an important component to evolution. The need for gene-mingling may very well have been one of the impetuses behind early Yeerk evolution.

Also, I think that Gedds were said to be semi-sentient, though I can't remember ever seeing one exhibiting its normal behavior without a Yeerk controlling it. Octopodes are kind of on the verge of semi-sentience and people have no problem eating those...

This has been discussed on here before (of course...because we're all uber-nerds XD) but I think you bring it up in a more biological light than the other thread, which focused more on the evolution of Yeerk intelligence than the evolution of Yeerk biology in general.

Ah, sorry for the thread repeat. I have noticed however that people are much less likely to respond to my posts the older the thread is, though. :P

For the rest of your post - yes, those things do make a lot of sense. Also, I saw your Photoshop version of the Yeerk homeworld, and it looks pretty awesome. :) Love the way you did the Yeerk pools so that it looks like their origin was in asteroids that had scarred the planet with craters. Very cool.


Offline MoppingBear

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Re: Could Yeerks Really Evolve?
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2010, 10:44:33 PM »
I said irrelephant, as in has nothing to do with elephants :-P

Anyways, I was talking specifically about not being able to reproduce withing the host, since it helps reproduction indirectly.

Offline donut

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Re: Could Yeerks Really Evolve?
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2010, 01:47:08 PM »
I would think that the yeerks would have been able to infest the creature long before having much control over it.  Probably like spy said, using the hosts as "pollinators" allowing them to reach different pools, for both genetic diversity and just to get more room, the books are a vague on these types of things (thankfully) so we have no idea about the carrying capacity of a yeerk pool but it can't be infinite.  They could also use the hosts as protection from yeerks natural predators thereby helping them survive to reproduce.  Gaining control of the hosts would be benefitial to making sure that the host went to a different pool within a feeding cycle, and would help to capture new hosts for other yeerks as the yeerks became more intelligent.  There are actually parasites that exist on earth that alter behavior of the hosts, even to the point of making its host effectively commit suicide in order to help the parasite reproduce, so I don't find the idea too far out there ( i think it'll more likely lead to zombies than yeerks though  :) ).

Why would the host be a predator? other than that, would a non sapient species even realize what had happened, or know the yeerk was there (while leaving) considering the numbing agents (consider how many times you've felt a tick burrow into you).  and yeah, there are a lot of sentient species on earth, only one (maybe) that's sapient, always annoyed me that the books used sentient as sapient.

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Offline zaprowsdower

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Re: Could Yeerks Really Evolve?
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2010, 08:36:10 PM »
At times like these, I just repeat to myself "It's just a book, I should really just relax." :)
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Offline Dameg

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Re: Could Yeerks Really Evolve?
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2010, 08:37:16 AM »
Even if it's just a book, don't you like to understand, to guess "what if...?", to imagine...? ;)
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Offline Toominator Z

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Re: Could Yeerks Really Evolve?
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2010, 10:04:30 AM »
There is a type of frog called Microhylids that live within the burrows of their natural enemy, the tarantula. The presence of a massive, chicken-eating arachnid provides thorough protection from predators to the vulnerable little frog. Puny Kermit also gets to feed off of the ants that would otherwise carry away its bodyguard's eggs. Aside from that, toxins on the frog's skin most likely make it unpalatable to its beefy buddy.

Although a parallel to the Yeerks raises the question of how they could actually be beneficial to their hosts, this example shows they don't need to be. As long as the Yeerks aren't a desired meal to the host, for any reason at all, it's possible the Yeerk uses it simply as a safer home. This provides the crucial first step towards their final evolution.


Offline Shock

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Re: Could Yeerks Really Evolve?
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2010, 02:52:53 PM »

Although a parallel to the Yeerks raises the question of how they could actually be beneficial to their hosts, this example shows they don't need to be. As long as the Yeerks aren't a desired meal to the host, for any reason at all, it's possible the Yeerk uses it simply as a safer home. This provides the crucial first step towards their final evolution.

this seems to stick out in my mind since the Gredds are protrayed as stupid apes and the yeerks are the intelligent ones.

one theory could be that the yeerks aren't parasites to the gredds, but rather some sort of co evolutionary process for them. the Yeerks get the brains but lack the other skills while the Gredds provide locomotion and senses. 

it's only when the andalites came in and screwed everything up that the yeerks stopped acting like symbotes to the gredds and parasites to the rest of the galaxy.
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Offline Ferahgo

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Re: Could Yeerks Really Evolve?
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2010, 06:09:28 PM »
It's a very interesting theory that Yeerks might have first used the braincase of other animals as a safe "home" rather with the intention to control, and the evolution of control was selected for later. I hadn't considered that angle but it seems sensible.

this seems to stick out in my mind since the Gredds are protrayed as stupid apes and the yeerks are the intelligent ones.

one theory could be that the yeerks aren't parasites to the gredds, but rather some sort of co evolutionary process for them. the Yeerks get the brains but lack the other skills while the Gredds provide locomotion and senses.  

it's only when the andalites came in and screwed everything up that the yeerks stopped acting like symbotes to the gredds and parasites to the rest of the galaxy.

I always thought it was a bit weird that the Yeerks taking the Gedds as their first sentient "victim" was such considered such an evil act. It seemed more obvious to me that it was just a natural part of the ecology and evolution of both species. I think it's very likely that the Yeerk infestation of the Gedds drastically benefited the survival of the Gedds.


Offline Kotetsu1442

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Re: Could Yeerks Really Evolve?
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2010, 03:17:49 PM »
I think the answer to the simple 'Could this evolution take place?' question is a yes, if for no other reason than that our knowledge of evolution is still far to limited to say 'No, it could not happen' (assuming, of course, that Yeerk physiology is possible, and it may be interesting to further discuss exactly how it could be plausible). I think this conversion has finally reached the most likely explanation for answering how it could happen. The problem that often hangs people up when thinking about evolution was present in this discussion from the beginning:

In order for anything to evolve a particular way, the selected traits need to simply be beneficial to the organism's rate of reproduction.

This is only true-ish. If a trait is beneficial to surviving long enough to reproduce, then the trait will become more common in further generations; it's what puts the 'selection' in "Natural selection.' But what needs to be accounted for in the long term is that, though a trait will become common faster (in terms of generations) through positive selection, genetic drift allows a trait to spread over time simply due to a lack of negative selection. In other words, for a trait to become common it doesn't need to be beneficial, it just needs to not be detrimental. For example:

Red-headedness is not beneficial to survival or reproduction among humans. If it ever was, it was only in a limited geographical region for a limited period of evolutionary time. The fact that it still exists today isn't because it is beneficial, but just because it isn't detrimental. But, if some catastrophe occurs on that destroys civilization and technology as we know it and shifts the climate to a 'late ice age, far north' climate worldwide; to the point that a red head's ability to produce vitamin D is not only beneficial but almost necessary to survive, then within a few generations the recessive genes that give red headedness may be the only ones to survive before we can rebuilt the nutritional and medical technology to keep people alive without it.

This isn't the perfect comparison, because with the Yeerks we aren't discussing a trait that provides catastrophe insurance against a backwards step for our species, but traits that allow a forward step: intelligence, infestation and host-control.

It isn't necessary for them to infest for a beneficial reason at first, the benefit can come later down the evolutionary time-line. Though Ferahgo initially supposed that the Yeerks would only evolve the infestation ability to infest a predator, whereupon they would only die when they had to leave said predator, she sees now that this doesn't necessarily need to be the case. There are plenty of examples of endosymbiosis on Earth and few, if any, infested to escape the being they infested itself. Anyways, having already evolved all the boneless, sluggy-squishy flexibility, some Yeerks may have gained some last needed trait (maybe the pain-numbing ability) and infested hosts (I.E. Gedds) for brief periods of time simply because they could, not to escape the Gedds as predators. It would have sped things up, evolutionarily speaking, if they were already intelligent enough to use this ability defensively to avoid other predators, but high level intelligence is not necessary at this point. However, a gradual increase in both intelligence and the ability to use their palps for much more specialized electric impulses to control the host (rather than simply using them for magnetic-location) would have to come next: The more sensitive electric control to control the hosts more adeptly over time and the gradually increasing intelligence to guide the host toward better survival than the host would achieve on its own.

Incidentally, since the Gedds and Yeerks evolved symbiotically then being more docile and remaining fairly unintelligent is likely a result form of positive selection on the Gedds' part, counter-intuitive though it may seem. Individual Gedds being somewhat more intelligent than the average Gedd and more defiant by nature could consistently run themselves into danger of other predators and remove itself from the gene pool while a docile and dumb Gedd is kept alive by its Controller.

In The Andalite Chronicles it is clearly stated near the beginning that the Andalites believe that the Yeerks and Gedds evolved symbiotically, however to be more clear for this discussion, I will bring in more precise terminology: Symbiotic is used in the Animorphs books in its most strict sense, where it means that both species are benefiting from the relationship; the books use it to differentiate this relationship from a parasitic one, where one benefits while the other is harmed. However, only some biologists use this strict definition, and it is less useful for discussion purposes. A better use of the term 'symbiotic' is the more general definition (which also happens to be more generally accepted) which only implies that the species coexist and interact in a long-term sense. Then the term 'symbiotic' can be divided into the sub-categories of mutualism, commensalism, and parasitism. Mutualism specifically describes the stricter interpretation of 'symbiotic' that was meant to be communicated when TAC says that the Yeerk/Gedd relationship is 'symbiotic' rather than parasitic. You could say that these two species evolved mutualistically in nature, benefiting each other in the previously described manner, but that the Yeerks, though capable of being biologically mutualistic, then choose to become socially parasitic.

At this point, Ferahgo, as you point out it is illogical to view the Gedd infestation as 'evil.' It was a natural biological process that benefited both species. The Andalites even were concluding it to be as such at the beginning of TAC. It is probably only the 'present' (in the Animorphs series) Andalites' very strong, self-righteous feeling that all Yeerk actions are completely evil that causes them to lump this initial infestation in with the rest of the Yeerks' actions as a growing evil empire.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2010, 03:24:25 PM by Kotetsu1442 »
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Offline Ferahgo

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Re: Could Yeerks Really Evolve?
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2010, 04:06:23 PM »
Well, I wasn't talking about a trait as innocuous as a hair color or appendage length or anything like that. I'm talking about a much more significant trait, the ability to burrow into someone's brain and take them over. Red-headedness doesn't need to be beneficial to drift, no, but organisms barely ever (if ever at all) evolve something really complex like a behavioral-anatomical process (like burrowing into someone's brain and taking them over) unless it's beneficial to the survival and rate of reproduction. Genes for traits like hair color can drift because the energy put into evolving the trait is not great. But in order for evolutionary processes that do take a lot of energy to evolve at all, yes, it does need a benefit. Otherwise a large energy input without a benefit is a detriment in and of itself.

But yeah, I do agree it would have been possible for the control aspect to come later, and the shelter aspect to come first.

As you pointed out, the only way to fathom the evolution of such a complex idea is to break the process down into tiny discrete steps and then hypothesize how each individual step would have been beneficial (or at least not detrimental).


Offline Kotetsu1442

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Re: Could Yeerks Really Evolve?
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2010, 06:00:57 PM »
Indeed, the red-head analogy was certainly imperfect, it only illustrates how genetic drift can create a diversity that is unnecessary but may later be useful. I think it, coupled with the handful of clues the books offer, and the ideas presented in this thread has allowed us to illuminate a not only possible, but probable evolutionary path for the Yeerks (Probable, at least, given our limited knowledge of evolution in general and particularly our very limited knowledge of the evolution of intelligence; and of course there is still a lot to be thought of in precisely how the host controlling is done physiologically speaking).

In any case, as Dameg alludes, it is very satisfying to not merely have to suspend your disbelief (with the "It's just a book" chant) but to treat it as a belief and find that it can stand in its own right.
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Offline SpyroForLife

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Re: Could Yeerks Really Evolve?
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2010, 03:43:51 PM »
I don't see how they could really evolve, because like it was stated before, as soon as they left the host, the host would probably attack them or escape. But I don't know much about evolutionary theories, so I'm just going to say:
I blame Crayak. :| It's just the kind of thing he'd do.
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