Author Topic: morphing heals all wounds.....or does it????????  (Read 6184 times)

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Offline itw2009

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Re: morphing heals all wounds.....or does it????????
« Reply #45 on: May 17, 2010, 03:18:32 PM »
yeah, yeah... you guys and bantering for the sake of bantering. i like simple, clean answers. loopholes aren't my imagination's personal playground. i'm just here for the post count. :P toemaytoes, toemahtoes.

Quote from: RAFKitball Filet Minion
I actually think of Marco as the one who fights half his battles holding his intestines in, but that's a good point. The simplest answer (thank you Occam's Razor) would be that there're redundant copies of that information in their blood/organs.
I have to disagree. While the probability of them retaining morphs despite blood loss directly increases with the number of redundant copies, there's still a decent chance of losing those redundant copies. Hmm, looks like a variation of Murphy's Law could be applicable here: "No matter how many backups you have, your data will be lost eventually, generally at the worst possible time."
At some point, of course, the probability of losing the redundant copies becomes almost infinitesimal, but I'm paranoid anyway.  :P
hmmm.... WHAT IF.

since mass is apparently stored in Z-space, why can't all of the information about your "DNA copies" (or your other acquired morphs) be stored there as well? Or in a similarly "linked to everywhere in space" location as a sort of intergalactic server to which you become connected the instant you touch an escafil device? so, once you "acquire" an animal, you send the DNA information on that morph to a "server" that also manages and regulates the mass you end up getting when you morph that animal? as a specific user, you only have access to your "user profile", including those morphs tied to your DNA. maybe the DNA of these animals is "swimming in your bloodstream" (ell-oh-ell) at all times (a byproduct of the acquisition-morph process, which i theorize a little differently), but the data regarding how that DNA is "used and structured" (requiring more explanation, enter laziness here) is elsewhere and can't be lost.

.....=_____=

Quote from: RAFKitball Filet Minion
If you go by the theory in this thread: http://animorphsforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=4957.new (which is the one I'm now inclined to accept as my own personal theory on how the morphing technology works) the explanation changes so that while one of them is in morph, all the information about their other morphs is actually stored in Z-space, along with their original mass. If that's the case, it wouldn't matter how much blood and how many spleens grizzly-Rachel lost, she still couldn't lose her morphs.
I like that theory, I think. It explains a heck of a lot. It doesn't explain everything, though, so I'll drop by that thread later. Prepare for brain explosions. >:D
this thread made me giggle; the (imhhhhho) absurdity of it all had something to do with it. Dx



also: laziness ftw. i'm not going to check, and i forget if this thread's also covered morphing clothes... as well as artistic morphing stuff (getting to the Ax book with Aloth et al, where that chick andalite Estrid can morph an entire set of clothes with shoes.... that has nothing to do with DNA but more with chemical compounds and, uhh... how on earth do you acquire clothes?).... but yeah. has someone addressed this?

edit: i checked. no one's addressed this. someone tell me how clothes fit into the mix.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2010, 03:39:58 PM by itw2009 »
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BaronConall

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Re: morphing heals all wounds.....or does it????????
« Reply #46 on: May 17, 2010, 11:23:30 PM »
That's in the Escafil Device thread :P

Offline A ghost you know

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Re: morphing heals all wounds.....or does it????????
« Reply #47 on: May 17, 2010, 11:27:26 PM »
Quote from: itw2009
yeah, yeah... you guys and bantering for the sake of bantering. i like simple, clean answers. loopholes aren't my imagination's personal playground. i'm just here for the post count. :P toemaytoes, toemahtoes.
lol
Loopholes are my imagination's personal playground. I've been bitten by too many loopholes in the past, so I've gotten fairly good at finding them. Makes for some interesting discussions, too.

Quote from: itw2009
hmmm.... WHAT IF.

since mass is apparently stored in Z-space, why can't all of the information about your "DNA copies" (or your other acquired morphs) be stored there as well? Or in a similarly "linked to everywhere in space" location as a sort of intergalactic server to which you become connected the instant you touch an escafil device? so, once you "acquire" an animal, you send the DNA information on that morph to a "server" that also manages and regulates the mass you end up getting when you morph that animal? as a specific user, you only have access to your "user profile", including those morphs tied to your DNA. maybe the DNA of these animals is "swimming in your bloodstream" (ell-oh-ell) at all times (a byproduct of the acquisition-morph process, which i theorize a little differently), but the data regarding how that DNA is "used and structured" (requiring more explanation, enter laziness here) is elsewhere and can't be lost.
Wouldn't that do away with the morphing clock, though?
There are two possibilities here. #1, "active server": the "server" uses energy, which means it'll eventually run out and nobody will be able to access their morphs' DNA anymore. Morphing over. #2, "passive server": the "server" never uses any energy, so there's no need to worry about how long you spend in morph. Unless...... what if there was a happy mix? An "active/passive server", which would draw energy from the host? That would explain why morphing tires the host. Come to think of it, though, that still doesn't explain the morphing clock. nvm, I punched a hole in my own ponderings.

Quote from: iew2009
this thread made me giggle; the (imhhhhho) absurdity of it all had something to do with it. Dx
Absurdity?
I really think there's some value there, to be honest. I'm probably going way too far ahead, but I also think this might eventually turn into real morphing tech.


Quote from: iew2009
also: laziness ftw. i'm not going to check, and i forget if this thread's also covered morphing clothes... as well as artistic morphing stuff (getting to the Ax book with Aloth et al, where that chick andalite Estrid can morph an entire set of clothes with shoes.... that has nothing to do with DNA but more with chemical compounds and, uhh... how on earth do you acquire clothes?).... but yeah. has someone addressed this?

edit: i checked. no one's addressed this. someone tell me how clothes fit into the mix.
Yes, it's been addressed.

http://animorphsforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=4957.msg387064#msg387064
http://animorphsforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=4957.msg387223#msg387223

http://animorphsforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=4957.msg385699#msg385699
http://animorphsforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=4957.msg385730#msg385730

We should really take this to the Escafil Device thread, since we're now totally off-topic in this one.
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Offline itw2009

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Re: morphing heals all wounds.....or does it????????
« Reply #48 on: May 18, 2010, 08:32:56 AM »
that's why i said it. because it's true. D: i read minds, you see. ...or it was ridiculously obvious. you guys are predictable? O____o?

everyone gets bitten by loopholes. my solution is not to limit myself to playing by the rules of the ones who establish the loopholes, but to use the bigger picture as a source of alternatives to cover my ass.

anyhoo, i've already covered the "off-topic" thing, but that's apparently not stopping us. so here i am, still posting off-topic things.

about the morphing clock: you and i are speaking of different things. by which i mean to say, you and i relate the morphing clock and what i envision as a "server" in different ways and, in speaking of it, are totally missing each other, i think. pretty much, whatever it is that bridges the interdimensional gap between z-space, people, and mass (and i don't think it's "nanites"- what a security mess...), the thing that forces a human two-hour (convenient, eh? earth time, exactly two hours?) time limit isn't related to a server expiring. who knows what kind of energy is inherent in z-space mass? (e=mc^2?) so maybe your server uses energy... but also produces energy for itself as a byproduct of the morphing process.

also, no one's really discussing the logistics and energy required to convert z-space mass into people mass. O____o it has to be ENORMOUS. little neutrons, photons, new bonds, broken bonds... complete chemical makeup changed. and what the heck kind of mass IS z-space anyway? it's a completely different dimension! we're glossing over this, imho... and, well, none of us are biochemists, so i can see why. but i personally find it to be more probable to believe that the mass isn't coming from z-space, but from some random planet or moon or sun, etc., that the andalites have tied this system to.

lol.... so i am completely disagreeing with those posts you sent me (btw, i meant "covered in this thread", but i suppose i ought to have clarified for someone's sake). though... i am too lazy to invent plausible excuses for them. xD so who knows? maybe it all works and we have our answers already. we should just... launch into mass commercial production! let's do it!


....i stick by "absurd". in a nice way, however. it's not intended to be demeaning or belittling, but i'm not going to pretend to be patronizing, either. i just don't agree.

this won't become reality for a minimum of 100 years... and i'm leaning toward 500, if anyone ever finds any practical use for this technology ever.

let's say you manage to convince someone that normal disguises aren't doing the trick- because clearly, the CIA is just doing a terrible job at infiltrating everywhere. and that high-tech cameras from 100 years in the future won't be nearly as good at infiltration as near-deaf, near-blind flies and that the technology from the movie "avatar" won't automatically make morphing technology obsolete by putting a "killable" copy of a person out there in the field, rather than risking a for reals human life.

first, funding is an issue. who can you convince of the above that will have the money to launch this program?

second, the research, testing, implementation, and maintanence of the program you're proposing would have to be regulated stringently in america (so you're looking at resources from another country, and we all know that the economy everywhere right now is crap)... and then america would find out and want to get their hands on everything and so you're back to "regulations" and/or international economic standoffs. because america strong-arms everyone.

so... that would take forEVER. and third, advancing this technology is predicated on human experimentation, which, believe it or not, the government is not going to condone without some sort of successful 'animal' experimentation... and, well, buffa-human to the contrary, i don't think those experiments are going to work without forcing us to redraw the lines of morality in some way. period.

and not only the above (and others), but what credible scientist in 100 years is going to have learned anything from the suggestions from a bunch of nerds in an obscure forum dedicated to children's books? these topics are for fun... not meant to be taken seriously. it's simply improbable to assume (but not entirely illogical to hope) that these threads are for anything more than passing entertainment purposes. :P

so i giggle. for me, that's that.


((oh, yeah. i forgot. we also have to get busy discovering z-space and faster-than-light space travel. add another 100+ years to that one, assuming that "z-space" actually exists.))
« Last Edit: May 18, 2010, 08:44:34 AM by itw2009 »
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Offline Aluminator (Kit)

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Re: morphing heals all wounds.....or does it????????
« Reply #49 on: May 18, 2010, 11:01:28 AM »
Guys, I'm responding to this in http://animorphsforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=4957.60, since we are kind of really off topic here.

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Offline itw2009

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Re: morphing heals all wounds.....or does it????????
« Reply #50 on: May 18, 2010, 12:01:00 PM »
i called dibs on that obvious fact.
D:
like, two weeks ago.
you responded.
with: "so?" (to paraphrase)


also, you can't make me move. :P
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Offline Aluminator (Kit)

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Re: morphing heals all wounds.....or does it????????
« Reply #51 on: May 18, 2010, 12:46:30 PM »
Back then, it was only a little off-topic :P

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Offline itw2009

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Re: morphing heals all wounds.....or does it????????
« Reply #52 on: May 18, 2010, 02:56:12 PM »
D: your response implied going anywhere with the topic, as long as new ideas were discussed.








...did i mention the post count thing?
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Re: morphing heals all wounds.....or does it????????
« Reply #53 on: May 18, 2010, 03:02:46 PM »
My response was that trains of thought should not be cut off simply because they stray from the original post. You've no idea how much it bugs me when a good talk gets rolling and someone comes in and goes "this isn't what we were talking about before. We're done." You lose a lot of good thoughts that way, especially when they're relatively related to the original topic. This scenario struck me as different, since we were sort of already running parallel discussions in these two threads, it made more sense to tack them together and not have to repeat thoughts. I'm all about conversational efficiency :P

And post count. Go us, holding each other up on this one  ;D

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Offline itw2009

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Re: morphing heals all wounds.....or does it????????
« Reply #54 on: May 18, 2010, 03:25:03 PM »
D:< yes, but if i go to this escafil device thread, i have to get caught up on everything they're saying there. and then i can't always just jump in randomly with my own points pulled from another topic; i have to wait and hope i get a chance to say something in context and without ignoring someone else.

and then sometimes, i just don't think the idea is good. so then i don't post. :P or a response requires more research than i think is necessary. and as you can tell from my other half-assed posts in this thread, i find that theorizing about something so very, very unlikely and completely fantastical at this point in human history is, well, for when i'm really, really, really bored. and for no other time.

but get back to me in a few hundred years, and i will certainly chime in once more. and remind everyone that we still have to discover z-space. <___< >___>
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BaronConall

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Re: morphing heals all wounds.....or does it????????
« Reply #55 on: May 19, 2010, 10:29:14 AM »
I have no problem with you catching up on the Escafil thread and offering some new perspectives :P

You mentioned "assuming that 'z-space' actually exists"... I'm kind of inclined to tie that to Multiversial Theory... If you're taking the mass from another universe, it kinda of solves the problem you touched upon:

but i personally find it to be more probable to believe that the mass isn't coming from z-space, but from some random planet or moon or sun, etc., that the andalites have tied this system to.

I know it's a little bit of a cop-out, the whole "infinite possibilities exist infinitely throughout an infinite number of universes", but like you said, we aren't exactly biochemists of physicists here, so we'll use the best fitting theory that's the most readily available to us until something better appears :P

Also, the Escafil thread touches upon the idea of Nanites converting the mass. If the you think of the Nanites as being slightly larger than atoms, than you could also assume that they're using quarks as super-storage quantum computers, while at the same time breaking down skin cells, fat cells, muscle tissue, nutrients, etc, in order to convert them into atomic energy.

As for the 'discovering Zero-Space' thing, I've found this; http://www.scribd.com/doc/1251498/Implications-of-Zero-Space

I haven't read up on it much (it was also posted in 2008) and it seems more to be the idea of one man, as opposed to a recognised developing theory. He starts off saying how it's based on an extrapolation of Einstein's formulae of E=mc2, but he also admits that his formulae does contradict the Quantum formulae.

Just thought I'd throw it out there.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2010, 10:33:18 AM by BaronConall »

Offline itw2009

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Re: morphing heals all wounds.....or does it????????
« Reply #56 on: May 19, 2010, 12:38:17 PM »
iow, the ellimist did it?

lol. ;)

and thanks for permitting me to join the escafil device thread conversation. O___o unfortunately, like i said, i have issues catching up with all of that.... junkstuff. mostly, i blame my incurable laziness. i think this'll be the last i post here. ^^

anyhoo, thanks for the article. :) my review doesn't reflect on you at all, but imhhhho, this guy is full of tripe. his inspirations are E=mc2 (not properly taking into account "movement"), the "Durac See" (the "Dirac sea") and Dr. Who's "Tartus", whatever that is. i mean sure, for someone who knows nothing about quantum physics, i don't mind reading what he has to say about the superposition of the string theory and the Dirac sea, but i'm of the humble and uninformed opinion that this guy IS an animorphs fan pretending to be an andalite explaining z-space. there is no serious research behind his postulations, and i daresay he knows it, too. he's also got a chip the size of montana on his shoulder over "them" and why "they" hate Dirac's "genius". (not true, btw, the guy received a nobel in 1933.)
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BaronConall

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Re: morphing heals all wounds.....or does it????????
« Reply #57 on: May 20, 2010, 01:38:58 AM »
Kind of the impression I got.
Like I say, I haven't read it all, but when I first saw it, my initial thought was "An Animorphs fan is trying to do science, arent they..?"

It seems more like a fan-fic than anything else :P