Is Cassie a Mary Sue character?

[Chad32]

Yeah. The SD thing is her big reason for being in the group. Without it, I guess she's just the moral compass. Which would be more useful if she wasn't so rigidly moral.

[anijen21]

Might I ask why?  Her "connection to mother earth" or something like that?  Just curious.

To me it just seemed like yet another bs reason to justify Cassie's presence among the Ellimist's (disputedly) stacked deck.  Rachel dies because she was the random member who had no real purpose (Ellimist tells her as much in book 54).  The nonsense about subtemporal grounding combined with all her other "miraculous abilities" was the bs way to justify Cassie's presence.

The "stacked deck" thing didn't make real sense to me at all--if anything, Rachel was more *predestined* to be there than Cassie, just because of her attitude towards fighting and how suited she was for it. And tbh, it's been years since I read MM4, but all I remember is the plot careening ridiculously out of control, and then being oddly satisfied with how it was resolved. It's not just *Mother Earth*, it's that Cassie has a deeper awareness of emotions and motivations that, in a sci-fi setting, would lead her to notice things wrong with the universe she's in. It's Deanna Troi's power, and she was always the one to figure out when something wasn't quite right, which was about her only power other than going "Boy Captain, he sure is angry." "Yes Counselor, thank you, I got that when he told us how angry he was."

I didn't like Cassie as a character. She is a huuuuge hypocrite. I just re-read #16 and godDAMN can that girl not make up her mind. "We can't let Fenestre keep killing humans!" "So what do you want to do?" "Kill him!" "Go ahead" "But uh my morph is not suited for it..." But if sci-fi is about blowing all things in normal, everyday life into epic, supernatural proportions, then I believe someone who's generally a little more empathetic and unfocused on the superficial nature of things (no matter how wrong she often was) would be able to tell when a universe is forged.

[wotw2112]

Ah, I see.  Perhaps it would make sense that of any of them she would be sub-temporally grounded.  Still, I don't think it was necessary for any of them to have that particular ability.  It just contributed (in my opinion) to her Mary Sue-ness

And stacked deck:
Marco - son of Visser 1's host
Tobias - Elfangor's Son
Jake - Brother of Tom, a prominent controller (who knows why)
Cassie - subtemporally grounded and thus critical to their success (as it was written)
Ax - Elfangor's brother

They all had strong connections (why the Ellimist allegedly picked them).  Rachel was "extra".  The Ellimist pretty much says so in 54.

[Chad32]

I wonder why KA had the most warrior like of all the Humans just be extra? did she think Ax filled that ninche well enough? Or couldn't she at least find something for Rachel to be? Though she would probably think of something off the wall, like what she did with Cassie.

[anijen21]

Ah, I see.  Perhaps it would make sense that of any of them she would be sub-temporally grounded.  Still, I don't think it was necessary for any of them to have that particular ability.  It just contributed (in my opinion) to her Mary Sue-ness

And stacked deck:
Marco - son of Visser 1's host
Tobias - Elfangor's Son
Jake - Brother of Tom, a prominent controller (who knows why)
Cassie - subtemporally grounded and thus critical to their success (as it was written)
Ax - Elfangor's brother

They all had strong connections (why the Ellimist allegedly picked them).  Rachel was "extra".  The Ellimist pretty much says so in 54.

I think the "stacked deck" thing was just Applegate realizing she had a lot of coincidences in her story, so she blamed it on her deus ex machina b/c that's what he was there for.

[Kitulean]

As a big Rachel fan, the thing of her being 'extra' and 'unnecessary' was a huge slap in the face, one I tend to ignore as much as possible.

But it's not nearly as insulting as KA's letter at the end where she said she'd miss writing for everyone EXCEPT Rachel.

[Chad32]

I won't argue against the Ellemist being a Dues Ex Machina. Just look at book 7. It's the first book where they really hit the Yeerks hard, and they never would have found the Kandrona Machine without him showing them.

I must have forgotten the part where she said that. That really is a slap to the face.

[morfowt]

maybe she said it because rachel was already dead so even if she continued the story, she wouldnt be writing about rachel?

[Kitulean]

I thought about that, but since Rachel died in the exact same book, she should still 'miss' writing for her just like all the others. It wouldn't be a big deal if she just named a couple because the others would be implied, like "I'll miss writing My name is Jake, or my name is Marco" because then you can assume she just said a couple names and implied the rest. But she specifically named all of them except Rachel. In the exact book that Rachel died in. That's what galls me. It was like she died and other than in character reactions (some of which I still disagree with), it didn't matter. Contrary to what the Ellimist told Rachel.

[wotw2112]

Lots to respond to!  You guys are awesome for killing boredom!

First and just to be clear: the stacked deck thing was never "admitted" by the Ellimist.  He was accused of it but never said anything either way.  It's not a stretch to believe though...  And yes, I think she wrote it in to justify the ridiculous coincidences that found elfangor's son, visser 1's son, and tom's brother all in the same place.

I wonder why KA had the most warrior like of all the Humans just be extra? did she think Ax filled that ninche well enough? Or couldn't she at least find something for Rachel to be? Though she would probably think of something off the wall, like what she did with Cassie.

KA probably had some BS message like "warriors aren't necessary in war".  She always justified her crap with stupid reasons.

As a big Rachel fan, the thing of her being 'extra' and 'unnecessary' was a huge slap in the face, one I tend to ignore as much as possible.

But it's not nearly as insulting as KA's letter at the end where she said she'd miss writing for everyone EXCEPT Rachel.

I too am a Rachel fan.  I had exactly the same feeling.  Then again, she should have said: "I miss having my ghostwriters write for everyone but Rachel" to be more accurate.   

[Chad32]

Right. And cooks aren't neseccary for restaraunts. Lol.

[wolfev]

Don't hate on K.A. The stacked deck is kinda annoying and Cassie did tend to be correct a lot, if you look at the outcome of her actions. They always tended to be the best. The random chance for Rachel is cool though. Remember, in the alternate timeline, Melissa takes Rachel's place.

[Chad32]

The Yeerks getting the box, and Rachel and Tom dying was not for the best. It was all a lot of luck, which means the plot worked for her possibly. Something else that's a sign of a Sue character. Though that's God Mode Sue that has the plot work for them, and Cassie doesn't really fit as a GM Sue.

[Kitulean]

Exactly. That's what a Mary Sue is. Even when they do something completely against everyone else and against LOGIC, everything just happens to work out perfectly for them.

[wotw2112]

Exactly. That's what a Mary Sue is. Even when they do something completely against everyone else and against LOGIC, everything just happens to work out perfectly for them.

Everything worked out pretty well for Cassie in the end.  She's the only one who ends up doing exactly what she had always hoped (even becoming advisor to the president which was ridiculous).  Oh, and she doesn't die.  Happily ever after for Cassie.

Not to mention that she didn't really care that Rachel died cause they suddenly weren't friends just before that happened.  What luck for Cassie!

If you look at the previous description of a Mary Sue I think it said that no one has exactly pinned down what a "Mary Sue" is and isn't.  I just think that Cassie is more than she isn't.