Author Topic: Group Re-Read: #29 The Sickness  (Read 15959 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Gafrash

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 532
  • Karma: 31
  • Gender: Male
Re: Group Re-Read: #29 The Sickness
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2009, 08:59:34 AM »
1) Why do you think that Cassie does not contract the Yamphut?
There's THE question that won't shut up! We can only speculate answers.
Tobias who was a hawk got sick himself... The Andalite disease in itself seemed very ambiguous.
WHY was Cassie the ONLY one who didn't get sick?! Beats me.

2) What do you think about Cassie performing brain surgery? Is it at all realistic? Additionally, do you think the Chee could have/should have been more help?
Half-way feel it was well done. Let's face it, out of all the Animorphs, ONLY Cassie would have been the one well equipped to perform this kind of operation. And only Cassie would have made the call to put a Yeerk inside the Andalite's head.
The entire book felt like it was very blatantly 'timely' in a blatantly obvious way.
Ax gets sick, Aftran is being interrogated, Visser Three is away for the moment, the Anis get subsequently sick one-by-one, inevitably Cassie is the one on a solo Yeerk pool trip, easily finds a not-so-inconspicuous-prisioner Aftran, Cassie morphs and re-morphs in the pool, only to the arrival of Visser Three for the interrogation, escapes, only to find Ax in crisis and needing to operate...

4) Cassie saves Aftran, and is faced with her dying of Kandrona starvation. Instead of letting her suffer, they allow her to use the Escafil Device to morph whale permanently. This ends up being the same motive that moves Cassie to steal the cube later on. My question is: How did Cassie not see the answer to the Yeerk problem then and there? Why did it take another 15 books or more?
I believe the 'seed' is unconsciously planted here, but 'the coin just didn't quite drop on her' yet.
I, too, am not under the impression that the 'surrender of the Blue Cube to Tom' stunt was ever planned on her part. I think Cassie came up with the move based on instinct and on the spot. This episode with Aftran definitely helped drive her to do that.

7) How do you feel about the character of Tidwell/Illim?
As the human who had suffered, I connected with Tidwell. His reputation of being a cold hard and serious teacher, was mitigated by what Cassie reveals through his memories. Deep down, it shows that any cold-hearted person indeed has their reasons for turning into the way the way.
As for the Yeerk, who, through Tidwell, learned the harm of what he was doing, I was halfway proud that the two managed to find a compromise and together fight for the Peace Movement.

6) Anything else? Funny moments? Sad moments? Intense moments?
Comment: Eels?! To infiltrate the Yeerk pool?!?!?! Two words: Come on!

Offline morfowt

  • God
  • ********
  • Posts: 8333
  • Karma: 112
  • Gender: Male
  • this is my avatar. it's a picture of nothing...
Re: Group Re-Read: #29 The Sickness
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2009, 10:59:49 AM »
6) Anything else? Funny moments? Sad moments? Intense moments?
Comment: Eels?! To infiltrate the Yeerk pool?!?!?! Two words: Come on!
I actually thought it was ingenious to travel through the plumbing...

Offline JFalcon

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 352
  • Karma: 33
  • Gender: Male
  • I need to get out more . . .
Re: Group Re-Read: #29 The Sickness
« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2009, 11:43:25 AM »
Questions
1) Why do you think that Cassie does not contract the Yamphut?

I like to think that she did, but later on, ala old tv shows when the character who nurses everyone else back to health gets sick at the very end of the episode and ends up being twice as demanding as the others were whilst being nursed.

2) What do you think about Cassie performing brain surgery? Is it at all realistic? Additionally, do you think the Chee could have/should have been more help?

Realistic? No, but then again I might just be extra harsh on this book. I think the Chee should have done more but to be honest this was one of the times that I actually really liked Cassie, like I say the whole surgery thing wasn't realistic . . . but it was so cool.

3) How does Cassie do on a mission alone?

All things considered? She gets really lucky in some places, but I think she did well. Wierd I know, since I hated this book so much, but this was, as I said above, one of those times I really liked Cassie.

4) Cassie saves Aftran

HAH! >:(

and is faced with her dying of Kandrona starvation. Instead of letting her suffer, they allow her to use the Escafil Device to morph whale permanently.

As they say in the books "And [JFalcon] said some things I can't repeat"

This ends up being the same motive that moves Cassie to steal the cube later on. My question is: How did Cassie not see the answer to the Yeerk problem then and there? Why did it take another 15 books or more?

Because Aftran's whale morph wasn't a gift it was an execution, they took an experienced soldier, one with the resources and charisma to found a resistance in the enemy's army, and throw her into a bigger Yeerk pool (Coming soon, The Ocean: the bigger, better Yeerk pool experience, no infestation vacation, no leaving to explore the land, no friends ever . . . now comes with free predators and polution. But hey, you won't die if you reproduce so live it up girl! Go get together with a being who's level of sentience is entirely different from your own, leaving you as stated before, truly and wholly alone in that big blue yeerk pool devoid of the colors you fell in love with) Aftran probably agreed because hey, guess what, the alternative was death and we know how Yeerks are about that, they say she chose whale but that's an incredibly out of character moment for her, I call it a lie on Cassie's part to make up for the fact that Aftran was screwed royal. Frankly I think the reason it didn't occur to them to let the Yeerks use morphing technology right then and there had to do partially with the fact that a Yeerk would have to be really desperate to agree to it, I mean it's like saying "hey, you there, stop being human, it is bad for you and everyone else, be a dolphin, they are fun loving hapiness machines who never experience a violent thought--except when there are sharks around!" you'd stare at the person saying that, shake your head, mutter something under your breath and walk away, some people would be all for it, just as some Yeerks were all for it, but the Yeerks didn't take "one-time-morphing" as a savior to their race, in fact it nearly wiped out their race, forced them to become "lesser" beings with (it's implied in the case of humans) shorter life spans. They took to it as part of the terms of their losing the war, they essentially had the option of morphing once and forever, or being confined to a yeerk pool for all existence, even if Cassie had had the thought then it wouldn't have come to anything, the Yeerks still had enough power to do things their way and I say bully for them!

7) How do you feel about the character of Tidwell/Illim?

I like him, we go out for [non-alcoholic] drinks sometimes . . . he decided to become a grizzly bear notlit, makes for some interesting outings. I mean if you havent seen a bear bowling you haven't lived, and clubs? Man forget clubs, when you go in with a bear, every girl wants to know your story and no bouncer can kick you out.

Quote
6) Anything else? Funny moments? Sad moments? Intense moments?

Honestly the book itself is overshadowed by my shameful bias towards the ending, I consider the entire ending an intensely sad moment because I hated, I hated how Aftran's involvement in the story ended, I'd rather she had died, been given that level of dignity, instead it was like they were punishing her for being one of the few yeerks with a concience. Being confined to a larger more dangerous Yeerk pool isn't a reward, seeing only the dark depths of the ocean wouldn't have been a reward for her either, what did Aftran value? Colors, eyesight, freedom from the Yeerk pool all things she gave up due to her deal with Cassie in book 19, not because being without them was her personal prefrence. There is a multitude of ways she could have been kept in the story, the Chee spring to mind right away, or if she had to become a nothlit she could have been a bird of prey like Tobias, that would give Tobias some company, give the group another lookout, give Aftran the freedom and eyes she'd value, and let the group ease up on forcing Ax to explain everything since Aftran could probably do it better and without the anti-yeerk bias. I would have much preferred her joining the cast, she could have shared a book slot with Cassie the way Tobias and Ax did, instead they flush her down the toilet because she would have brought about that most hateful of wonderful things: change! Honestly though its one of the few Cassie books that I really really enjoy from beginning to near end (the only other to spring to mind is number four which is probably one of my favorite books in the series all together) I despise the actual ending of this book so much, so very very much. Part of me likes to pretend it ended very differently, but I won't go into any more painful ranting detail, I'm sure I've irritated enough people today.  :P
"I would be a ghost of this dynasty before I'd be a general of rebels and traitors!" ~ Pang De, Romance of the Three Kingdoms

"My brain! My brain! Me hurty to think!" ~ Zim, Invader Zim

"Fight it off? You must have me confused with someone who's brave." ~ Church, Red vs Blue

Offline RYTX

  • Shadow and Flame
  • Xtreme Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 4877
  • Karma: 140
  • Gender: Male
  • Pretend I said something clever
Re: Group Re-Read: #29 The Sickness
« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2009, 11:53:51 AM »
Really?
You're calling that vast and varied waters of the ocean; which carries more abudance of life and color that the anywhere else when Aftran gets a powerful body capable of doing and seeing things no host she could ever had could do, a big sludge pond?
Really?
I just don't see it.

This book, I don't know, my general dislike of Cassie makes it hard for me to enjoy it to the fullest, but all in all I'd say it's a pretty good one. None of it actually seemed outside the realm of possibility even the brain surgery, and it was nice to see her stand on her own. It almost make me begrudgingly proud of her.
Almost
Something, something, oh crap I pissed everyone off again....

Offline Shark Akhrrana

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 771
  • Karma: 48
  • Gender: Female
  • OOOH FISH
    • Chronicles of Hyrule
Re: Group Re-Read: #29 The Sickness
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2009, 11:59:27 AM »
I totally agree about Aftran there. They should have made her human and have her as part of the team or at least as an adviser. No need to exile her from everything she had.
No friends no family and a huge ocean to explore but no one to talk about it with.


===============================================

Offline JFalcon

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 352
  • Karma: 33
  • Gender: Male
  • I need to get out more . . .
Re: Group Re-Read: #29 The Sickness
« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2009, 01:08:07 PM »
Really?
You're calling that vast and varied waters of the ocean; which carries more abudance of life and color that the anywhere else when Aftran gets a powerful body capable of doing and seeing things no host she could ever had could do, a big sludge pond?
Really?
I just don't see it.

I'm not saying the ocean is a sludge pond, I'm saying it's a big yeerk pool, yeerk pools and sludge ponds are not the same thing. Yeerk pools were just as life giving and life sustaining to the yeerks as ponds and oceans are to earth life. Life for humans wouldn't be all that possible without oceans (at the very least it'd be really difficult) life for yeerks wouldn't be all that possible without yeerk pools . . . does that mean we should live in them?

No, what I'm saying is that in the yeerk pool Aftran was confined and deprived of her favorite sense, in the ocean she is, in fact, still confined, still without the colors she loved. The ocean is colorful where it's shallow enough for sunlight to light it up, which is often (but admittedly not always) too shallow for a whale without a death wish, divers use flashlights because you're not going to see very well without them so with exceptions the deep ocean is devoid of color and full of danger, that's the world Aftran was permanently shoved into, permanently as in unlike us or the other Animorphs she can't just leave if she gets scared or sick of it, she's alone to boot, in the yeerk pool maybe, despite being in a cage after her capture, some yeerks communicated encouragement to her, won't happen in the ocean, she has to face those fears alone. The ocean is dark, it's full of conflict and killing, the things that Aftran ran away from when she chose to infest Karen, now she's confined to that for the rest of her life, and we're supposed to buy that she's happy about it? That it's her reward for doing her part? Seems more like her own personal hell to me.

Like you said, I just don't see it  :)
"I would be a ghost of this dynasty before I'd be a general of rebels and traitors!" ~ Pang De, Romance of the Three Kingdoms

"My brain! My brain! Me hurty to think!" ~ Zim, Invader Zim

"Fight it off? You must have me confused with someone who's brave." ~ Church, Red vs Blue

Offline Chad32

  • God
  • ********
  • Posts: 11951
  • Karma: 195
  • Gender: Male
Re: Group Re-Read: #29 The Sickness
« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2009, 01:47:20 PM »
Yeah. why a whale, anyway? Why not a reef fish, at least? One with really good eyesight.

Of course I would have added her to the team. Either have her become a nothlit, or a controller that sustains herself through Erek's help.


Ani-Master 2014!

Offline dolphin4077

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 202
  • Karma: 15
  • Gender: Female
Re: Group Re-Read: #29 The Sickness
« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2009, 02:27:17 PM »
Sorry to be away for awhile.  

1.  My best guess is that I agree with everyone who said that Cassie had a stronger immune system because she's always around sick animals.    

2.  I liked the brain surgery scene.  As for realism, I stopped worrying about that in Animorphs when time travel became a semi regular occurance.  
Now for the Chee, I feel a rant coming on.  I was fine with Erek's (and through him the rest of the Chee) role at only offering limited assistance with surgery because it made me think that playing doctors went against Chee programming.  After all doctors lose patients or could cause serious harm to them.  It was mentioned that Mr. King was a doc in like the 16th century, but I figured a chee could get away with it then because medicine was so crude that he could get away with it then, but no chee has been a doctor since because of medical developments.   It's ironic that the Chee can't be people who save lives because there is just a good a chance they could kill them too.  

However, other than the fact the series is called Animorphs and not Chee, how come the Chee couldn't rescue Aftran?  

3. I think she did really well.  

4. I think this illustrates a weakness in having ghostwriters and not having an overall idea of how the series will eventually end.    

I liked Tidwell/Illim, wished they and the YPM could have been used more.  

JFalcon, I was okay with the Aftran's choice of humpback whale.  I figure she chose it because of Cassie's happy memories of morphing.  However, your commentary on it was really interesting.

Quotes:

"We all agreed that we couldn't let Aftran die.  It was Jake who thought of the way to save her.  He suggested that we give her the power to morph..."  Anyone else think it was interesting that Jake was the one to come up with the idea.  

"Marco shot a triumphant glance at Rachel.  'See?  Still think my idea is nuts?'  His face darkened.  "Wait a minute.  It is nuts.  What's the matter with me?  Am I insane?'"  This quote always makes me laugh, but pretty much the whole scene does.  
  

Offline SkyMorpher

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 639
  • Karma: 16
  • Gender: Female
  • Fly high, seek peace, God bless (Formerly Animel23
Re: Group Re-Read: #29 The Sickness
« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2009, 12:34:54 AM »
1. Cuz otherwise she'd be stuck in bed and we woudn't have much of a story  ;D
but to be more serious, I think she was just luckier than the others...

2. I thought it was realistic, not that I know (or want to know for that matter) what a realistic one would look like...

btw if morphing eliminates yeerks, why did Jake's temporary yeerk try to make him morph?
where in the book did it state morphing eliminates yeerks?

Here but I misread, she actually said 'excluding'

AniJen21:Maybe ten years worth of fanon is working against me here, but I always assumed that the morphing technology purged any foreign organic growth, excluding whatever the morpher intended, eg clothes and Yeerks.

Offline Shark Akhrrana

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 771
  • Karma: 48
  • Gender: Female
  • OOOH FISH
    • Chronicles of Hyrule
Re: Group Re-Read: #29 The Sickness
« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2009, 01:10:05 AM »
hmm idno or else Ax wouldn't need flea powder if he can just morph the fleas off

===============================================

Offline goom

  • the underling of underlings
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 8929
  • Karma: 690
  • Gender: Male
  • no other distinguishing characteristics.
    • Twitch.TV Streams
Re: Group Re-Read: #29 The Sickness
« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2009, 01:35:40 AM »
i think it has to do with what the Tira glad does. it keeps the stuff away from the rest your body. The Rabies was in his system already. but yeah that is a big if.

but the other animorphs (besides cassie) don't have tria glands.
they still retained the disease.

Offline Shark Akhrrana

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 771
  • Karma: 48
  • Gender: Female
  • OOOH FISH
    • Chronicles of Hyrule
Re: Group Re-Read: #29 The Sickness
« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2009, 02:01:11 AM »
yeah well what confused me is the fact that its contagious.
the tireglad had not exploded so there are no air born viruses of whatever that was stored in there. There was nothing that was going to contaminate them at all UNTIL it bursts. but it never did. So how did they get sick in the first place.

With that in mind. since i have no clue how Yamphut affects others without it being an actual virus. it seems to be able to affect an life form no mater shape or size

===============================================

Offline goom

  • the underling of underlings
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 8929
  • Karma: 690
  • Gender: Male
  • no other distinguishing characteristics.
    • Twitch.TV Streams
Re: Group Re-Read: #29 The Sickness
« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2009, 02:09:15 AM »
the tireglad had not exploded so there are no air born viruses of whatever that was stored in there. There was nothing that was going to contaminate them at all UNTIL it bursts. but it never did. So how did they get sick in the first place.

i think musicman might have the answer to that :woot2:

Offline AniDragon

  • Gold Donor
  • *********
  • Posts: 2999
  • Karma: 174
  • Gender: Female
  • Train of thought, like broken pencil, has no point
    • My tumblr
Re: Group Re-Read: #29 The Sickness
« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2009, 08:05:24 AM »
Yeah. why a whale, anyway? Why not a reef fish, at least? One with really good eyesight.

Of course I would have added her to the team. Either have her become a nothlit, or a controller that sustains herself through Erek's help.

KAA seemed to really REALLY like whales. So for KAA, this was probably a very good morph.

Personally, I'd have gone with dolphin. *shrugs*
~AniDragon, aka Riona-chan~



Currently Reading: Winterwode, by J Tullos Hennig
Currently Writing: Demon's Bane
Currently Editing: Elder's Requiem

Offline Chad32

  • God
  • ********
  • Posts: 11951
  • Karma: 195
  • Gender: Male
Re: Group Re-Read: #29 The Sickness
« Reply #29 on: May 19, 2009, 08:07:18 AM »
I definitely get the feeling that she's fond of whales. She gave them a kind of sentience, and our Favorite Mary Sue got one in the first book she narrated.


Ani-Master 2014!