Author Topic: Aximili's name  (Read 6790 times)

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Offline Shark Akhrrana

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Re: Aximili's name
« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2009, 01:11:36 AM »
Well they had to have a language since at first they only spoke in sign language until The Elimist showed up.

think about when you think in your mind do you just thik ideas or do you actually hear yourself talking. they have internal voices that make sounds
for example when Elfangor found out that Alloran was a controller he commented on the fact that he SOUNDED just like him. Having his own personal accent.
When the Animorphs talk to each other they can tell who is talking just like when you hear an actual voice. So yes it might be telepathic but they still have some kind of mental sound system

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Offline wildweathel

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Re: Aximili's name
« Reply #31 on: April 24, 2009, 02:28:54 PM »
Interesting, so that's three theories, now.

One, Andalite thought-speak transfers pure thought.  (Think)

Two, Andalite thought-speak transfers non-vocal symbols.  (Weathel)

Three, Andalite thought-speak transfers vocal, or at least auditory, symbols.  (Shark)

Before I dig in to the linguistics, though, a response for Morf

could be I just misunderstood that, but "love" is not just "ai" in chinese. "xihuan" can also mean love, though to a slightly less extent.

Wiktionary says this to say about "ai4" and "xi3 huan1" (pinyin modified and hanzi removed to avoid ?s):

Quote
When used for people, "ai4" usually refers to romantic love. When used like this, older Mandarin speakers often describe the use of this term as overly "rou4 ma2" (adj. something that gives you the creeps, disgusting). For this reason, the word "xi3 huan1" (to like) might be used instead. Using the word xihuan literally means like, but when used in a romantic context (especially boyfriend/girlfriend), it actually means love. However, younger Mandarin speakers seem to have been influenced somewhat by Western culture, and are now using the verb ai much more often than was socially acceptable in the past.

Japanese does the same thing.  The verb form, "aisu" is fairly rare.  Saying like to mean love is common; except it's a different word from "xihuan": "suki" (written with the same character as "hao4" in Chinese).

By the way, that's all from Wiktionary; I don't really know Chinese and Japanese well enough to write that myself!


I don't really buy the pure-thought idea.  Like Jen said, that would rule out needing metaphor in their language.  Thus no shorm/shorm metonymy. 

I don't really buy that thought-speak is limited only to transmitting some kind of mind-words.  Elfangor actually does use thought-speak to show an image of a Yeerk in #1.  And, while I'm too lazy to find an example now, once the Animorphs start using thought-speak they can use it to transmit marginally-linguistic but very vocal expressions like laughter.

And, I don't really buy that thought-speak communicates a vocal internal-monologue.  First, that would rule out the easy-enough-to-understand aspect of thought-speak (so very, very helpful for first contact!).  But, secondly, without any history of communication-by-sound, Andalites really shouldn't have audible internal monologues.

That's not to say that they don't have internal monologues.  It's really hard to pin down exactly what an internal monologue is, but here's an interesting result from memory tests.  The task is to remember words printed on cards in English.

Native English speakers will have more trouble with near homophones like "TREE" and "THREE" than non-homophones like "CAR" and "MOOSE".  If they have to speak, like saying "Jack and Jill went up the hill" while they memorize, they don't memorize as well.

Native ASL signers will have more trouble with near homophones like "VOTE" and "TEA" than other pairs.

http://lifeprint.com/asl101/pages-signs/t/tea.htm
http://lifeprint.com/asl101/pages-signs/v/vote.htm

If they have to do something with their hands while memorizing, they don't memorize as well.

In short, it's possible to have an non-vocal internal monologue.  Sign language, in this case, takes the place of spoken language in organizing human thoughts.

http://www.dichotomistic.com/mind_readings_deaf%20speech.html

So, none of those three theories entirely works.

Ah, well, time for more speculation.

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Offline ThinkAgain

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Re: Aximili's name
« Reply #32 on: April 24, 2009, 03:01:56 PM »

So, none of those three theories entirely works.

Ah, well, time for more speculation.

Agreed, I said my thought had several flaws before I said it, I just couldn't think of anything better.

Still, by this point, what's left to say beyond that either that it's a mechanism so foreign we cannot comprehend it without experiencing it or that it's simply a plot device.

Still, I like this. Anyone have any other theoretical ideas?


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Offline morfowt

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Re: Aximili's name
« Reply #33 on: April 24, 2009, 07:03:29 PM »
Before I dig in to the linguistics, though, a response for Morf

could be I just misunderstood that, but "love" is not just "ai" in chinese. "xihuan" can also mean love, though to a slightly less extent.

Wiktionary says this to say about "ai4" and "xi3 huan1" (pinyin modified and hanzi removed to avoid ?s):

Quote
When used for people, "ai4" usually refers to romantic love. When used like this, older Mandarin speakers often describe the use of this term as overly "rou4 ma2" (adj. something that gives you the creeps, disgusting). For this reason, the word "xi3 huan1" (to like) might be used instead. Using the word xihuan literally means like, but when used in a romantic context (especially boyfriend/girlfriend), it actually means love. However, younger Mandarin speakers seem to have been influenced somewhat by Western culture, and are now using the verb ai much more often than was socially acceptable in the past.

Japanese does the same thing.  The verb form, "aisu" is fairly rare.  Saying like to mean love is common; except it's a different word from "xihuan": "suki" (written with the same character as "hao4" in Chinese).

By the way, that's all from Wiktionary; I don't really know Chinese and Japanese well enough to write that myself!

so... does that contradict or agree with what I said...

Offline wildweathel

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Re: Aximili's name
« Reply #34 on: April 24, 2009, 08:36:31 PM »
Agrees.  I think.
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Offline Aurora

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Re: Aximili's name
« Reply #35 on: April 25, 2009, 03:01:24 AM »
No offence, but maybe its an American thing? Like i know lots of americans who find saying "Sara" (As in Sarr-ra not Seh-ra) difficult.

Kindly be quiet.  An accent isn't a vocal impediment.

That's like me ripping on Brits for being all "'Ello guvna!  Chip chip cheerio!  Oim a li'l chimney-sweep Oi am!"  Maybe it's the lack of teeth?

See?  Rude and inappropriate.  Ssh.

Offline wildweathel

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Re: Aximili's name
« Reply #36 on: April 25, 2009, 10:18:35 AM »
An accent isn't a vocal impediment.

Well, yes and no.  No matter how much we descriptivists cry "LEAVE ACCENTS ALONE, please" with running mascara and profanity (which, being descriptivists we refuse to call "foul language" ;)), the facts are:

  • Some accents have more homophones than others, which means more opportunities for confusion.
  • Unfamiliar accents really are more difficult to understand.
  • People are prejudiced about accent. 

Thus, Americans don't distinguish "Mary" from "merry," and many merge "all" and "awl."  Brits seem to have trouble with "Barack Obama."  And the two camps can fight over how to say "Sara" 'til the cows come home.  Such is linguistic life.

Oh, and a "lack of teeth" would interfere with F , V , TH and DH .  Not vowel shading or silent H s, or actually, most features of a thick ****ney. 
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Offline Aurora

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Re: Aximili's name
« Reply #37 on: April 25, 2009, 10:14:51 PM »
You're a homophone.

Shrug.

Offline Phoenix004

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Re: Aximili's name
« Reply #38 on: April 27, 2009, 09:34:47 AM »
Kindly be quiet.  An accent isn't a vocal impediment.

That's like me ripping on Brits for being all "'Ello guvna!  Chip chip cheerio!  Oim a li'l chimney-sweep Oi am!"  Maybe it's the lack of teeth?

See?  Rude and inappropriate.  Ssh.

Kindly stop being an abusive moron. British people don't talk like that and you have no right to insult other members this way. Consider this a warning.

Now unless any of you have anything to say about the actual topic, please refrain from posting.
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Offline Brad the Brit

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Re: Aximili's name
« Reply #39 on: April 27, 2009, 12:02:56 PM »

Kindly be quiet.  An accent isn't a vocal impediment.

That's like me ripping on Brits for being all "'Ello guvna!  Chip chip cheerio!  Oim a li'l chimney-sweep Oi am!"  Maybe it's the lack of teeth?

See?  Rude and inappropriate.  Ssh.

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i can take a joke but that was a insult.

Offline Gaz

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Re: Aximili's name
« Reply #40 on: April 27, 2009, 05:31:28 PM »
Ok, getting back on topic here.

On Ax's name: Let's face it. People like to shorten names to make them quicker and easier to say. When you're in a hurry, you're not going to want to blurt out Ax's name in its entirety.

I'm sure most people have had someone shorten their name. Take my name for example. I've had people shorten Rachel to things like Ray and Rach. Not because Rachel is hard to say, but because people need/want that shortcut.

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Re: Aximili's name
« Reply #41 on: April 27, 2009, 06:47:06 PM »
Yeah people like to shorten names for the sake of convenience, or to make them easier to say in an urgent situation. Or sometimes just because the abbreviated name sounds cooler.
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Offline Aurora

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Re: Aximili's name
« Reply #42 on: April 28, 2009, 03:24:45 AM »
i can take a joke but that was a insult.

...In response to an insult.

But alas.

Movin' on, with the winds of change, and the butterflies eating cotton candy and singing unicorn songs, etc.

It makes sense to abbreviate "Aximili-Esgarrouth-Isthill", but I guess "Aximili" isn't so hard.  "Ax" and "Ax-man" and "The Axleroobydoobymeist er" and "Aximischnitzenhause n Blitzkriegen" were probably just mere affectionate pet-names.

Offline wildweathel

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Re: Aximili's name
« Reply #43 on: April 28, 2009, 12:13:46 PM »
The last two have the disadvantage of not actually appearing in cannon. ;)

There's something profoundly human about pet names.  True they can sometimes be obnoxious.  (Call me *censored for giving away my AFK name* and you will die.)

Since showing up here I've been Wildy, Weathel, Weasel, Wild, Gryph (when I changed my name a while back), and a whole host of others.  It's natural, I guess, and that's ultimately the reason why Ax is Ax.

I still don't get why he's Aximili in the first place, but whatever.
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Offline Brad the Brit

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Re: Aximili's name
« Reply #44 on: April 28, 2009, 12:32:21 PM »
yer like me always calling Faerie- Fey
and calling Broken/Cody - Broke

its just easyer to say/type. i mean why do you people call me Brad? My real name is Bradley-Nigel Boardman... Brad is easyer to say. iv even been called Bradders on a few occasions and at work most of the other Cadet Nurses call me Baz. ;D

 so really Aximill being called Ax is quite normal ::)