Author Topic: Thoughts on the ending  (Read 27101 times)

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Offline Starsword

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Re: The Ending/ I do understand her better now.
« Reply #285 on: May 01, 2009, 11:57:55 AM »
Do you think when a general has to send the men he or she knows and respects, people who trust him, into battle and get killed, they don't feel enormous guilt? And while some Flag Officers have committed suicide, the majority continued to function after the war while shouldering the knowledge that their word was the reason for the deaths of thousands of people. How many people can say that they understand what that feels like?

Not many.
Until then we fight.

Offline fiction

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Re: The Ending/ I do understand her better now.
« Reply #286 on: May 01, 2009, 03:44:47 PM »
Do you think when a general has to send the men he or she knows and respects, people who trust him, into battle and get killed, they don't feel enormous guilt? And while some Flag Officers have committed suicide, the majority continued to function after the war while shouldering the knowledge that their word was the reason for the deaths of thousands of people. How many people can say that they understand what that feels like?

Not many.

Function, yes.  But are they happy?  Were they children having to make these decisions?  Your argument, while valid in some respects, doesn't make sense when applied to the issue we are discussing here- whether or not it is possible for several young teenagers to be mentally affected by war.  A Flag Officer is trained.  Guided.  Briefed.  Jake, Marco, Rachel, Cassie, and Tobias were thrown headfirst into a war, all while having to learn from experience, with very little help.  The two aren't comparable. 

Offline Shark Akhrrana

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Re: The ending
« Reply #287 on: May 01, 2009, 05:17:55 PM »
But KA did say a year or so ago that she was open to the idea of writing books 55-60 if Scholastic gave her the opportunity, which I interpret as meaning there's a very very good chance the Animorphs didn't die.

That would be awesome though it wouldn't be the same without Aximili or Racher.
just the way Ax died was just to .... WHAT???? to me when I read it.
but if it continues i think there might be some Time matrix use in some way

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Offline Hylian Dan

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Re: The Ending/ I do understand her better now.
« Reply #288 on: May 02, 2009, 11:35:22 PM »
There are lots of people who face what the Animorphs have faced, life and death decisions, leading countries, militaries, fighting social injustice, but they didn't go absolutely crazy when they won.

Jake was incapacitated by depression for three or so years after massacring the 17000 Yeerks and allowing Rachel and Tom's deaths. But then he starts getting his act back together, writing a book and teaching anti-terrorism forces.

Cassie makes peace with what she's done in the war and moves on with her life.

Marco tries to live it up but finds that he's grown detached.

Ax becomes a wise leader and Tobias is unbearably heartbroken.

All of this seems very logical.

Offline Starsword

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Re: The Ending/ I do understand her better now.
« Reply #289 on: May 03, 2009, 01:02:47 PM »

Function, yes.  But are they happy?  Were they children having to make these decisions?  Your argument, while valid in some respects, doesn't make sense when applied to the issue we are discussing here- whether or not it is possible for several young teenagers to be mentally affected by war.  A Flag Officer is trained.  Guided.  Briefed.  Jake, Marco, Rachel, Cassie, and Tobias were thrown headfirst into a war, all while having to learn from experience, with very little help.  The two aren't comparable. 

There are a lot of people who are severely depressed, fighting wars or not. Does that mean they deserve to die? And I seriously doubt anything can prepare you for war, no amount of training can mentally save you. And for a group that wasn't mentally trained, briefed, and guided, they did better than almost any military leader I have ever heard of. But he's depressed because he made the large majority of decisions correctly and thus doesn't deserve to live I guess.
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Offline fiction

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Re: The Ending/ I do understand her better now.
« Reply #290 on: May 03, 2009, 11:50:30 PM »

Function, yes.  But are they happy?  Were they children having to make these decisions?  Your argument, while valid in some respects, doesn't make sense when applied to the issue we are discussing here- whether or not it is possible for several young teenagers to be mentally affected by war.  A Flag Officer is trained.  Guided.  Briefed.  Jake, Marco, Rachel, Cassie, and Tobias were thrown headfirst into a war, all while having to learn from experience, with very little help.  The two aren't comparable. 

There are a lot of people who are severely depressed, fighting wars or not. Does that mean they deserve to die? And I seriously doubt anything can prepare you for war, no amount of training can mentally save you. And for a group that wasn't mentally trained, briefed, and guided, they did better than almost any military leader I have ever heard of. But he's depressed because he made the large majority of decisions correctly and thus doesn't deserve to live I guess.

This entire time, I've been wondering exactly what it is we are debating here- now I realize, you completely misunderstood what I first said.

Allow me to clarify the difference between my saying that they "had to die" with they "deserve to die". 

From a simple literary analysis, my absolute favorite endings are the ones that are, perhaps, least often seen.  True tragedies- the antagonist either lives or dies, but the protagonist must suffer a tragic death.  KA is the only author that I have read that not only had the courage to do that to her characters, she also does it within reason. 

Obviously the most basic story has a beginning, a middle, and an end.  A story is not truly over until the conflict has been resolved.  The conflict cannot be resolved if characters are still dwelling on the past.

Look at it this way:

If Rachel has survived the war, she would have come out of it broken.  Perhaps not permanently, but her insanity was accentuated for a reason.  Or rather, more than reason.  Without Rachel, it would have been impossible for Jake to kill Tom.  As Jake points out, Marco and Cassie would have refused.  Ax and Tobias were needed.  Rachel was war-crazy enough to do the job.  She loved the battle- and they worried what would happen to her when the battle ended.  So in a kind of "deus ex machina" way, that problem is solved when Rachel and Tom kill each other. 

Had Rachel survived, Tom would have survived.  Tom's yeerk would have survived.  The yeerk's plan would have succeeded.  Jake and the other Animorphs would have even more to deal with.  And even if they won that particular battle, and Rachel survived, the conflict would never truly be over because Rachel would miss the fight.  Perhaps she would find an outlet- as is human nature, she might pick fights just for the fun of it.  But as is an even stronger human nature- we just don't let things go!

Tobias, one of my favorite characters, is stuck with an even more unusual situation- know he doesn't belong anywhere.  Without Rachel, he is lost.  He has no true family.  His alien family is dead.  His human disappeared.  (Does anyone ever wonder what happened to his cat, Dude?).  He could possibly trap himself in human morph again, but then would he be a human, stuck as a hawk, stuck as a human?  And to have all that power taken from you- it is perhaps like seeing, then becoming blind.  Like being able to walk, and suddenly you are immobile.  That is something you would dwell on.  A lost love, a lost power, a lost family.  There was way too much for Tobias to deal with for him to not dwell on the past.

Marco, another favorite of mine, has almost the same problem as Rachel.  He has few broken family ties, despite having his mother enslaved by Visser One for so many years.  And yet, as Hylian Dan states- he finds himself completely detached.  Bored.  Tactically, he has nothing to do.  A simple war would seem simple- and since his main skill was thinking logically, there are few things that someone with that much logical experience can do.  Extreme intelligence from any angle is difficult to live with- Marco had an overdeveloped ability to think logically.  And logic, when overused, will drive a person mad.  IE: He was bored, and would always be looking for "one more adventure".

And Jake.  Oh Jake.  It took me several days to get over Jake.  Jake, the thirteen to sixteen-year-old kid who has to make all the tough decisions- including the decision to kill the brother he had been fighting to save for three years.  Jake, who never even gets to speak to said brother before his death.  Jake, who knows the only way to stop his brother's yeerk is by sacrificing his own cousin.  Oh the brilliance!  When I realized what KA was going to do with him- well, I got very excited indeed ;D

You see, so few authors have the ability to write a true final ending.  Some don't wrap up enough, while others wrap up too much.   KA knew her characters well.  She knew who would endure the war and come out okay.  Though I can't exactly explain why she chose to kill Ax- perhaps it was out of convenience, or I simply don't understand enough about Ax's character to realize what the reason might be.  However, I do know that out of the six, Cassie was the one person who would hold on to nothing.  Cassie would forgive and forget.  She would be willing to co-exist with yeerks if she needed to.  She would get past the war.

This is what I mean when I say they needed to die.  For the series to truly be over, the characters had to let go of the conflict.  Some of KA's characters were so strong, so determined, that they would never let it go.  Others lost too much to forget.  Oh brilliance.  I was thrilled to finally read a book from an author who knew how to end a series.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2009, 12:14:20 AM by fiction »

Offline Starsword

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Re: The Ending/ I do understand her better now.
« Reply #291 on: May 04, 2009, 12:24:21 AM »
Hmm that makes sense, and I agree to a major extent. Devil's advocate, conflicts are never truly resolved anyhow, as can be seen after the war, because each conflict has an effect.
Until then we fight.

Offline goom

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Re: The Ending/ I do understand her better now.
« Reply #292 on: May 04, 2009, 12:47:13 AM »
Agreed. Jakes big plan seemed like the time when he made the most random and arbitrary decisions of the war. Some pieces just didnt connect fully, because he kept a group of six alive for 3 years against an army.  All of a sudden he abandons morals and flushes yeerks. There are alot of ways to make a distraction without sacrificing every pawn you have.

i agree.
to me, the ending seemed rushed.

oh, and fiction: very nice post. +1

Offline estrid

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Re: The Ending/ I do understand her better now.
« Reply #293 on: May 04, 2009, 02:36:45 AM »
the ending was rushed! its like all of a sudden she needs to finish, so she threw a plot together, killed off the auxillaries to not have to explain them in the dumbest way possible and so on. instead of wasting books with the likes of #44, she coulda started the ending sooner and had a better ending
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Offline fiction

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Re: The Ending/ I do understand her better now.
« Reply #294 on: May 04, 2009, 05:40:50 AM »
the ending was rushed! its like all of a sudden she needs to finish, so she threw a plot together, killed off the auxillaries to not have to explain them in the dumbest way possible and so on. instead of wasting books with the likes of #44, she coulda started the ending sooner and had a better ending

Rushed or not, I maintain it was still a good ending.  If anything was rushed, Scholastic would be to blame, as they set the length of the book that she is required to write. 

Offline Starsword

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Re: The Ending/ I do understand her better now.
« Reply #295 on: May 04, 2009, 10:28:07 AM »
I really wish the last book was a straight up megamorph length and format. It kinda was, but not in length.
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Offline Chad32

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Re: The Ending/ I do understand her better now.
« Reply #296 on: May 04, 2009, 11:10:26 AM »
I also wish it was a full out Megamorph book, all the way through. I'd like to see what the others were thinking during the actual final battle. But since KA was obviously ready for it to just be over with, she wasn't going to put that much effort into it.

Whether or not we like the ending, we can all agree that KA was ready to put the series to rest once and for all.


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Re: The Ending/ I do understand her better now.
« Reply #297 on: May 04, 2009, 05:42:11 PM »
Yeah she was done with it forever, you can tell from her ending.

Offline estrid

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Re: The Ending/ I do understand her better now.
« Reply #298 on: May 04, 2009, 07:55:05 PM »
schoolastic may set a limit on # of books, but she can write them as she wishes. I still maintain she coulda started ending it earlier and not wasted time with all those filler books
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Offline Chad32

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Re: The Ending/ I do understand her better now.
« Reply #299 on: May 04, 2009, 10:08:08 PM »
schoolastic may set a limit on # of books, but she can write them as she wishes. I still maintain she coulda started ending it earlier and not wasted time with all those filler books

I agree to that. Not that I hate fillers, but the last half seemed like mostly filler with a sprinkling of plot significant material here and there.


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