Author Topic: Group Re-Read: #25 The Extreme  (Read 6542 times)

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Offline Phoenix004

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Re: Group Re-Read: #25 The Extreme
« Reply #30 on: April 02, 2009, 09:14:57 AM »
There's some interesting discussion on tvtropes about how exactly the Animorphs were still able to think and reason in really primitive forms, and basically the theory is that the mass in Zero-Space, which we know is still at least recognizable as the original form, somehow remote-controls the morph from there. So even if they're an ant, they're still using their human brain, just distracted by the ant's instincts in real space. If that makes sense.

Yeah I always thought that too. Presumably the morpher's mind is stored in Z-space along with their body, but still connected to the form they have morphed into.

I also liked that the Chee start to have a bigger role in this book. It's the first time they cover for the Animorphs while they are away on a mission.
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Offline EmberGryphon

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Re: Group Re-Read: #25 The Extreme
« Reply #31 on: April 02, 2009, 01:23:27 PM »
This isn't even getting into how age is determined from DNA or things like haircuts and nail length are maintained.

Well, determining age from DNA isn't that farfetched. See, there's a long string of repetitive, meaningless DNA at the end of every chromosome which protects the important information from destruction when the DNA strand is replicated during mitosis... every time the DNA strand is replicated, a segment of DNA is lost in translation, and so every time the cell divides, its DNA is literally shorter. Thus, the cell's (and, through that, the organism's) age and age-limit are shown in their DNA...

But I always thought that was kind of a fasinating thing- how the actual appearance of the morph was determined by its DNA in the books. Marco's hairbut, Tidwell's weight, things determined by environment but apparently shown through when their body is reconstructed through DNA. But when Tobias morphs Taylor, he becomes someone he's never actually seen- Taylor before her accident.
Like, if someone acquired the DNA of a person who was anorexic, but who was genetically inclined towards obesity- what would their morph look like? It's never really stated. ;--;

1. The entire premise of this book is that the Yeerks are building a ground-based Kandrona strong enough to essentially turn any swimming pool into a Yeerk Pool. If they had succeeded, what consequences would have come about as a result? Would it have been game over?

I don't think it would have been game over entirely. I mean, for one thing, it's stated a few times in the book that Kandrona isn't the only thing Yeerks absorb from the Yeerk Pool, so them forgoeing those other nutrients in favor of convenience might weaken them in the long run. Also, how big of an advantage that becomes depends, imo, on whether or not the Yeerks were ready to go ahead and declare full-on war. I can't imagine that having some neighbor come over to hold onto your screaming, crying host while you swim around in your backyard, and then forcing his head underwater while he flails about so you can reinfest him, would be that subtle or secretive. Not to mention that the aforementioned host is much more likely to be able to escape from his backyard than he was from the Yeerk Pool. It'd be a convenience for Yeerks whose hosts have jobs which require them to travel or somesuch, and I'm sure it'd make expanding the invasion much easier, but it wouldn't eliminate the Yeerks' main weakness entirely. The gameplan would change, but they wouldn't be untouchable.

2. The Yeerks recreate the Venber race by splicing Venber and human DNA. These Venber are fully programmable, like biological computers. Is this better or worse than what the Arn do? Why?

The Arn were awesome. Arrogant, but they did what they needed to do to save their planet- and their keeping the Hork-Bajir a few tiers below their own people isn't that much better than what we do with dolphins- who we're all pretty sure are self-aware- or chimpanzees, which share 98% of our DNA. They tried to make sure Hork-Bajir remained ignorant to their existence and used them to care for their planet; we keep dolphins in big pools and make them jump for our amusement. *shrugs*
The thing with the Venber was, obviously, cruel. As were... the people-whose-species-I-forget, who eliminated the Venber in the first place, was worse- although, again, it's not something I could never imagine humans doin'.

3. Why does KA include the Eskimo kid in this book? Was it smart for the Ani's to let him go after he saw them morph?

He was a plot device. *shrug* A few books later, I'm not so sure they would've taken the risk of letting him go.

4. Everyone always makes Cassie out to be this over-indulgent moralizer, but in the last few books she's shone a different side. What do you think has changed?

Cassie, bless her heart, IS an over-indulgent moralizer. <3 And I adore her for it. I don't think the whole let's-eat-dead-things is that big of a stretch- I mean, she's vegetarian, but the seals were already dead. They weren't born, raised in poor conditions, and killed at a predetermined time to be eaten, they'd been killed as a function of being part of nature. I don't think it was out of character for Cassie to say "Hey, let's do that thing where we DON'T die," and encourage her friends to eat something they didn't even have to hurt.

5. The Ani's eat in their wolf morphs to avoid starving. Does that food carry through when they demorph and remorph? Or do they go back to hungry?

I find it fascinating to think about, an' I loved reading other people's answers to this. x3 Canon-wise, the books seem to flip-flop on the subject.

6. Anything else.

I feel pretty strongly that this would have been the PERFECT book in which to introduce a walrus morph. But, once again, KAA neglects my favorite animals. (Elephants, sure! Rhinos, sure! But no hippos, that would delight Ember. D< Grizzlies, sure! Polar bears, sure! Raccoons, why not? But not hyenas, that would delight Ember. D< Seals, polar bears, but no walruses! Nyaaaa ;--;)

Offline AniDragon

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Re: Group Re-Read: #25 The Extreme
« Reply #32 on: April 02, 2009, 01:45:05 PM »
I feel pretty strongly that this would have been the PERFECT book in which to introduce a walrus morph. But, once again, KAA neglects my favorite animals. (Elephants, sure! Rhinos, sure! But no hippos, that would delight Ember. D< Grizzlies, sure! Polar bears, sure! Raccoons, why not? But not hyenas, that would delight Ember. D< Seals, polar bears, but no walruses! Nyaaaa ;--;)

There was a hyena morph in the first Alternamorphs book. :) (Probably the only good thing about it, really...)
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Offline EmberGryphon

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Re: Group Re-Read: #25 The Extreme
« Reply #33 on: April 02, 2009, 01:58:24 PM »
Yeah, but you get shot if you use it! xD
Whereas the 2,500 pound giraffe stampeding for those defenseless children... well, that's just cute. Only a jerk would shoot a giraffe...! D=

Offline AniDragon

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Re: Group Re-Read: #25 The Extreme
« Reply #34 on: April 02, 2009, 02:19:05 PM »
I think there was one scenario where you can use the hyena and survive... But I've also sort of... selectively forgot most of the Alternamorphs books.
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Offline morfowt

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Re: Group Re-Read: #25 The Extreme
« Reply #35 on: April 02, 2009, 04:03:21 PM »
I think there was one scenario where you can use the hyena and survive... But I've also sort of... selectively forgot most of the Alternamorphs books.
you survive but you become a nothlit, unless you use it during the attack on the yeerk.

Offline Terenia

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Re: Group Re-Read: #25 The Extreme
« Reply #36 on: April 02, 2009, 09:25:43 PM »
I can't imagine that having some neighbor come over to hold onto your screaming, crying host while you swim around in your backyard, and then forcing his head underwater while he flails about so you can reinfest him, would be that subtle or secretive. Not to mention that the aforementioned host is much more likely to be able to escape from his backyard than he was from the Yeerk Pool. It'd be a convenience for Yeerks whose hosts have jobs which require them to travel or somesuch, and I'm sure it'd make expanding the invasion much easier, but it wouldn't eliminate the Yeerks' main weakness entirely. The gameplan would change, but they wouldn't be untouchable.

That's a very good point. You'd either have a huge spike in escaped hosts, or a huge spike in the purchase of handcuffs and other restraining gear.

Quote
4. Everyone always makes Cassie out to be this over-indulgent moralizer, but in the last few books she's shone a different side. What do you think has changed?

Cassie, bless her heart, IS an over-indulgent moralizer. <3 And I adore her for it. I don't think the whole let's-eat-dead-things is that big of a stretch- I mean, she's vegetarian, but the seals were already dead. They weren't born, raised in poor conditions, and killed at a predetermined time to be eaten, they'd been killed as a function of being part of nature. I don't think it was out of character for Cassie to say "Hey, let's do that thing where we DON'T die," and encourage her friends to eat something they didn't even have to hurt.

That's very true, and really what I thought was interesting about this scene was the fact that Marco at least expected Cassie to have a problem with eating the seal, as if the already half-devoured animal was more important than them. I guess that doesn't say much for Marco's opinion of her, eh?


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Offline ThinkAgain

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Re: Group Re-Read: #25 The Extreme
« Reply #37 on: April 02, 2009, 10:00:18 PM »

Cassie, bless her heart, IS an over-indulgent moralizer. <3 And I adore her for it. I don't think the whole let's-eat-dead-things is that big of a stretch- I mean, she's vegetarian, but the seals were already dead. They weren't born, raised in poor conditions, and killed at a predetermined time to be eaten, they'd been killed as a function of being part of nature. I don't think it was out of character for Cassie to say "Hey, let's do that thing where we DON'T die," and encourage her friends to eat something they didn't even have to hurt.


Is it ever stated that she is a vegetarian? I'm sure she's against cruel farms and such, but she technically lives on a farm, so she can't be ignorant. Also, her dad made Chili one time, which is mostly meat.

Also, when you mentioned the method for determining age from DNA. While that's true, it isn't always consistent. Free radicals can affect cell function during mitosis, so the bits removed can be more or less, which is why two identical twins can seemingly age at different rates, based on environment, even though they have the same DNA.

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Offline EmberGryphon

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Re: Group Re-Read: #25 The Extreme
« Reply #38 on: April 03, 2009, 03:38:18 PM »
^ I always assumed she was. I mean, they have at least a few instances where they're at the mall eating, and everyone has a hamburger or whatever, while Cassie is specifically noted to be eating a veggie wrap or something similar. In #12, I remember Rachel ordering herself a hamburger from room service and getting Cassie a salad, although it's been a while since I read that one, so my memory could be faulty. *shrug* So I've always just sort of assumed she was vegetarian. ^^()

And I've never heard of identical twins aging at different rates. o_o The free radical bit makes sense, I've just never heard of it before. x3 *is an art major, so doesn't get too much in the way of new science learnin'* Interesting!

Offline Brad the Brit

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Re: Group Re-Read: #25 The Extreme
« Reply #39 on: April 03, 2009, 03:51:19 PM »
Sloth morph for the win!!!