Author Topic: Group Re-Read: #23 The Pretender  (Read 4969 times)

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Offline Terenia

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Group Re-Read: #23 The Pretender
« on: March 12, 2009, 08:05:08 PM »
Sorry about the long lapse, guys. Real life attacked, and it was brutal. Spring break next week, though, so life should get easier!

Summary
Someone's looking for Tobias. Someone who says she's his long-lost cousin. Tobias isnt sure the person is telling the truth. But she's really nice, and knows a lot about him. And what she tells Tobias definitely gets his attention.

It seems a lawyer has discovered Tobias's father's last will and testament. So, Tobias needs to attend the reading. His "cousin" even offers to go along. But something just doesn't feel quite right. That's when Tobias, the other Animorphs, and Ax decide to do a little checking on this "cousin." And what they discover will change the rest of Tobias's life....

Questions
1) Does that summary make anyone else grit their teeth with annoyance? Half the point of the book is that we don't know who Tobias' cousin is. Putting it in quotes like "this" the whole time kind of gives things away....also, Scholastic needs to work on their grammar.

2) In this book Tobias is to be read his father's will on his next birthday. This is the only instance where a birthday is celebrated in the series. Since we're still early on we can assume that this is either his 14th or 15th bday, depending on how far into 13 he is when Elfangor's ship lands. Which bday do you think it was? Also, is it weird that he can't remember the date of his own birthday? I know he's a hawk and all, but still.....

3) What do you think would have happened if Aria was for real?

4) What do you think about Visser Three in this book? I think this is the most subtle we ever see him in the main series. Is it reasonable that he put so much effort in to playing Aria? Or a dumb move based on old rivalries?

5) What do you think about the whole predator-prey visions thing that Tobias is having, which is causing him to starve?

6) Is Tobias a coward? Or do you think he is handling his numerous situations well?

7) What do you think about the revelation that Elfangor is Tobias' father (I know we already knew from TAC, but it was a big moment for Tobias and the others).

8 ) Anything else?

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Offline Chad32

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Re: Group Re-Read: #23 The Pretender
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2009, 08:13:39 PM »
1) I wish Scholastic had lead us along a bit before giving a huge hint that it's not for real. That way there would be some build up.

2) I don't think it's too weird. You think his crappy guardians cared to make his birthdays special. Yeah, we don't care about you 364 days out of the year, but you should always feel good on your birthday!

3) I think it would be quite a challenge trying to hide the fact that he's a bird. Without Erik's help, that is.

4) I didn't know Visser Three could be that subtle. I figured it would be some other controller or something. I also found it weird that he didn't go ahead and try to infest Tobias. He talked about respecting Elfangor, or something to that extent, but the way he killed Elfangor was totally disrespectful.

5) I wondered why Tobias didn't just get rid of the intruder. why does being part Human make tresspassing any less of a violation?


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Offline morfowt

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Re: Group Re-Read: #23 The Pretender
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2009, 05:01:31 AM »
1. strangely, I never noticed that hint. Not that it would matter anyway. Reading the summary without any knowledge of the book, I'd have never guessed Aria was actually visser three, or a controller for that matter. I'd have thought she was like Erek, an ally with a secret, so to speak...

2. since it's only book 23, I'm guessing it's his 14th birthday.

5. I'm still not completely sure what they were, or how they happened...

7. It was HUGE news to me, because I read #23 before TAC. in fact #23 was the sixth animorph book I read.

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Re: Group Re-Read: #23 The Pretender
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2009, 09:42:03 AM »
8) This is my favorite animorphs book in the regular series, the part where they read Elfangor's letter makes me  :'(

Offline Phoenix004

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Re: Group Re-Read: #23 The Pretender
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2009, 10:56:41 AM »
1) I didn't think it was that bad, as I kind of assumed it was done that way because for most of the book we aren't sure if she's really his cousin or not.

2) I never really thought of it, but I'd guess that it was his 14th birthday and that he hadn't been 13 for very long at the start of the series. I also found it a little odd that he'd forget his birthday, but I think the main reason is because he probably never celebrated his birthday in a memorable way, so it wasn't a very big deal for him.

3) It's possible that in his moment of weakness, he might have become a human nothlit, but I don't think he would have, the fight meant too much to him. So he'd either carry on as he was, or maybe he'd try to live with Aria by using his human morph and demorphing a lot, but that wouldn't be very practical.

4) Visser Three isn't very subtle, but he is quite cunning sometimes. Or maybe one of his minions suggested the idea.

5) A little weird, but kinda makes sense. Tobias is clearly feeling guilty about what he has to do to survive, not to mention the fact that he was beginning to starve.

6) He's handling it as well as anyone possibly could.

7) I thought it was really cool, awesome plot twist. Glad Tobias got to find out.
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Offline AniDragon

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Re: Group Re-Read: #23 The Pretender
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2009, 12:45:12 PM »
3) What do you think would have happened if Aria was for real?

She probably would have thought that Tobias's father was a bit touched in the head... I mean... How many people would actually realistically believe a note like the one Elfangor left?
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Offline dolphin4077

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Re: Group Re-Read: #23 The Pretender
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2009, 01:18:09 PM »
1.  The summary bugs me too.

2. 14th birthday.  I agree with everyone who said it wasn't weird he forgot because birthdays weren't memorable for him.   Tobias remembers stuff that is important to him, like dinosaurs.

3.  I like the idea of the Chee helping out to maintain a cover, but in the book it sounded like he wanted to be human permenantly. 

4.  This is one of Visser 3's better moments.  It makes sense for Aria to be a morph.  We all know Visser likes being in the middle of the action, and with Elfangor being involved, V3 wouldn't be on the sidelines.

5. For me, those parts were more interesting to read the second time around, because during my first reading I was so fixated on the whole revelation thing.

6.  He handles it far better than I ever could.

7.  #23 was one of those books I was really anxious to read because of the whole revelation, couldn't wait for it.  I was a little bummed we never really got to see the others reactions to it.  I don't think we even know the others know until #26.   

Offline JFalcon

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Re: Group Re-Read: #23 The Pretender
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2009, 01:22:51 PM »
1 ) Actually I didn't mind it at all, apart from the fact that I thought she was a controller (not Visser Three himself, but a controller none the less) the whole time I can honestly and slightly to my shame admit that I didn't give the quotations any thought at all.

2 ) I think it was his fourteenth, because if he'd had another birthday between the start of the series and this point I think someone would have reminded him, however forgetting his own birthday is more believable if it's been longer, so it may have been the 15th.

3 ) Almost the same thing, i.e. Tobias turns her down, remains a hawk and she walks out of the series forever. I don't think Tobias would go with her. He wasn't willing to become human full time for Rachel, some stranger cousin wouldn't have done the trick. If it all really was true though, he might have been tempted, but he'd just be out of the fight and I don't think he would do that.

4 ) I think Visser Three had a surprising amount of time on his hands actually, this might just be how he spends his vacation time. I liked seeing him do something clever though and I think rivalries can push people to doing really extreme things.

5 ) I've got nothing.

6 ) Tobias is far from a coward, even though this is something he struggles with a couple times in the series I have trouble considering any of the Animorphs cowards, they do and deal with things I myself very probably couldn't.

7 ) To be honest? I thought it was weird that Visser Three just accepted it as fact, I mean if he remembered Elfangor having the Time Matrix shouldn't he have remembered Loren? Why didn't he take her? Even if she was blind he would have wanted to torment her, he just ignores her instead, yet not only totally buys that Elfangor's got a human son, he actually feels disappointed when the boy isn't a threat to him? This from a guy who doesnt really think humans can be threats? Was he expecting Tobias to be some sort of leader of the (as far as the Yeerks knew) nonexistant human resistance? This actually felt kind of . . . weird, like an incomplete story, I actually would have liked to see some of this from Visser Three's POV.

8 ) See 7.  ;)
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Re: Group Re-Read: #23 The Pretender
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2009, 01:40:52 PM »
Was he expecting Tobias to be some sort of leader of the (as far as the Yeerks knew) nonexistant human resistance? This actually felt kind of . . . weird, like an incomplete story, I actually would have liked to see some of this from Visser Three's POV.

This would have been especially interesting to see at book 49(I think?), when Loren comes up as a family member of one of the "Andalite bandits".

Actually, a lot of the series would have been interesting from V3's point of view. He's an interesting character, definitely.
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Offline Terenia

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Re: Group Re-Read: #23 The Pretender
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2009, 04:07:30 PM »
Building off of a few other comments, I do think its weird that V3 didn't have Tobias infested. Obviously it was necessary plot-wise or KA would have to do some quick writing, but it seems out of character. There is no such thing as a "waste of a host". Not when that host is a young, healthy human male. If Tobias really was a "tough street kid" as he was portraying, wouldn't that fit right into the target audience of The Sharing?

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Offline wolfev

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Re: Group Re-Read: #23 The Pretender
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2009, 11:12:37 PM »
V3 respects Elfangor somewhat. Notice he never infested him when he had him. This respect is seen in the end of the book when V3 comments about Tobias. I don't know, but I think that is the only explanation. Maybe if Tobias was Andalite and could give a fight he might have, but he had the respect for Elfangor to not infest his own child. Maybe its more of a jerk move. "You're kid isn't even worth infesting!" so he could just be rubbing the dirt in Elfangor's wound
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Re: Group Re-Read: #23 The Pretender
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2009, 12:46:42 PM »
7 ) To be honest? I thought it was weird that Visser Three just accepted it as fact, I mean if he remembered Elfangor having the Time Matrix shouldn't he have remembered Loren? Why didn't he take her? Even if she was blind he would have wanted to torment her, he just ignores her instead, yet not only totally buys that Elfangor's got a human son, he actually feels disappointed when the boy isn't a threat to him? This from a guy who doesnt really think humans can be threats? Was he expecting Tobias to be some sort of leader of the (as far as the Yeerks knew) nonexistant human resistance? This actually felt kind of . . . weird, like an incomplete story, I actually would have liked to see some of this from Visser Three's POV.

As far as I can recall, Visser Three wouldn't have known Loren's surname so wouldn't have been able to find her. Even once he found out about Tobias, he might have been able to find her due to her probably having a different surname to Tobias (not to mention the problems her amnesia would have caused when trying to track her down).

Visser Three may not have liked Elfangor, but he did respect him as a worthy opponent. With an ego like his, Elfangor was probably one of the only enemies he ever respected (prior to the Animorphs) and therefore he was disappointed to discover that Tobias was supposedly a failure.
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Offline JFalcon

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Re: Group Re-Read: #23 The Pretender
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2009, 03:10:48 AM »
I think it makes sense that he couldn't find her due to lack of information, though I still think a book from his POV just to see how hard he's looking would have been really neat  ;)

As for respecting Elfangor too much to infest his son, I'll buy that, but Visser Three does mention as he's killing Elfangor that he'll place Yeerks in the heads of Elfangor's family so he can hear their minds scream, I'll grant that might have been just a taunt though.
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Offline Hylian Dan

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Re: Group Re-Read: #23 The Pretender
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2009, 09:36:14 AM »
Great book.

I get the sense that the title "The Pretender" might be a reference to Tobias as well as Aria. The book deals with a lot of Tobias hiding his weaknesses and pretending to be strong. It emphasizes his growing from this weak self-pitying bully magnet into a strong warrior and a worthy son of Elfangor.

The hawk moving in on his territory is connected to the bullies who used to threaten him during his human life. The awkward, hesitant way Tobias handles the situation offers insight into the way he behaved before becoming an Animorph.

Quote
<It's nothing. It's this hawk that's trying to move in on my meadow.>
 I felt like an idiot the minute the words were out of my head. This was
like the "old" Tobias style: treating people to displays of stupidity
and weakness. No wonder I'd gotten beat up so often when I was human. It
was like I was begging people to sneer at me.
 <Brilliant, Tobias,> I muttered to myself. <Rachel, of all people is
really going to appreciate some pathetic story of how you can't stand up
to a bird.>
 <What, is he bigger than you?>
 Why didn't I just keep my mouth shut? <Forget it. I just haven't
decided the right time to kick his butt.>

Here's part of an exchange between Tobias and Ax, which takes on added significance given the Elfangor revelation at the end of the book:
Quote
<I have no species,> I said. <I'm a one-of-a-kind freak.>
Ax didn't have an answer for that. I don't think Andalites approve of self-pity or other pointless emotions like that.

Early in the book Tobias awkwardly hesitates a lot instead of doing what needs to be done. But as he's flying with Rachel, he pulls of an incredibly crazy stunt, grabbing on to a helicopter, for no real reason aside from showing off.

At one point Tobias describes himself as this:
Quote
I was a freak of nature. No, that wasn't right, either. Nature at its
most perverse could not create me. I was a freak of technology. Of alien
technology.
And then we come to Bek, the lost Hork-Bajir child trapped in Frank's Safari Land.
Quote
The sign said All New! Deadly Midget Freak! The Living Razor!
Bek is in included in the story as a parallel to Tobias's character. A lost kid, a freak, in need of a loving family.
Quote
There, in a raised cage with two spotlights intersecting on him, was a
young Hork-Bajir.
...
His clawed hands were wrapped around the bars of his cage. He was
gazing with pathetic hope at Aria.
Quote
I stared with my weak human eyes as she stepped in and sat down. For a
moment the door remained open and I could see her as clearly as human
eyes would allow.
 She was looking in our direction, but could not see us. She was in
sunlight and we were in dark shadow.
 Aria gazed thoughtfully up at the Frank's Safari sign. There was a
flicker of a smile, but no more.
 "Who are you?" I whispered.
 The driver shut the door and she was gone.

Quote
Frank shook his head. "This guy comes driving up with this thing lashed
in the back of his pickup truck. Says he saw it out wandering around the
side of the highway. Asked me what I'd pay for it. I gave him fifty bucks."
 "You made a good deal," Aria said. "I'm sure he's worth more than that."
 "So what is it, that's what I'd like to know."
 Aria shrugged. "I don't know. I've never seen anything like it. But you
know, you shouldn't call it a 'freak.'"

 "Not politically correct, huh?" Frank said knowingly.
 "It's not that," Aria said. "It's just that it's like nothing I've ever
seen. No animal I know."

The book deals a lot with the relationship between Tobias and Rachel. During the battle at Frank's Safari Land, KAA includes this line while describing Tobias morphing:
Quote
I grew and grew. Grew til I could almost look Rachel straight in the eye.

Quote
I could have a home. Like a human being. A home!
 I would not kill my breakfast. I would not eat roadkill. I would sleep
in a bed. And Rachel would look at me without having to hide the pity in
her eyes.
Quote
"I don't care that you ate roadkill. Stop being an idiot! I care about
you. And when I see you doing that, I know things are going wrong for
you. But you're off in your own little hawk world and no one is allowed
to help you. You'd rather starve than ask for help. You can't ever admit
that your life may suck because then you'll feel weak."
 <I'm a hawk,> I snapped. <A bird of prey. When we're weak, we die.
That's the law for us. I'm not a human being. Not anymore. No one helps
a hawk. A hawk lives by his eyes and wings and talons.>
 "You're a hawk?" Rachel sneered. "You talk, Tobias. You read. You have
emotions. Those are human things, not hawk things."
 <l know! I know! Don't you think I know? That's why I'm going hungry.
Because I'm not hawk enough. That's why I let Bek get away, because I
was human enough to care more about my pain and fear than I cared about
doing what I had to do.>

Toby delivers the basic message of the story:
Quote
"Do you think the Yeerks will respect you? They won't. They'll come
after you harder," Cassie pointed out.
 Toby nodded. "That is true. But the Hork-Bajir will respect themselves.
A fool is strong so that others will see. A wise person is strong for
himself.
The Hork-Bajir will be strong for the Hork-Bajir. That way,
when the Yeerks are all gone, we will still be strong."

That line gets Tobias thinking, and he goes on for a bit about how freaks are treated and how to deal with bullies.

Quote
I walked out and closed the door behind me. I heard DeGroot say,
"Shouldn't we take him? Just to be safe? Make him one of us?"
 Aria snorted derisively. "He's street trash. A waste of a Yeerk.
Elfangor would be ashamed. His son should be a warrior. A worthy
adversary, not some young fool. A pity, really."
Visser Three's comment about Tobias relates back to Toby's line. Tobias is no longer showing off, he's doing what needs to be done. He's being strong for himself and for his friends, not for the sake of how others see him.


Quote
He had left me.
My mother never remembered him. He had never existed for her, so she did
not feel the pain of it. And I would not have known, but for the letter.
 And now, I guess I could be angry at him. But that wasn't how I felt.
Elfangor had run away from his duty when he came to Earth. He'd had no
choice but to return to that duty. No choice at all, if he was to play
the part he had to play, and be the great prince he was.
 I'd lost a father. Because of that fact, Elfangor had been where he had
to be, when he had to be there, to change the lives of five ordinary
kids forever. And maybe . . . maybe. . . save the human race.
 I wondered why the Ellimist had allowed my father to leave that letter.
But I didn't wonder for long. The answer was too simple.
 See, I had a duty, too. And who is there to remind
you that what you want for yourself is less important than
doing what is necessary and right?
 <Message received, Father. Message received.>


Offline Chad32

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Re: Group Re-Read: #23 The Pretender
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2009, 09:57:20 AM »
Man, how is it that Hylian Dan can see all these insightful things in the same book series I read, that I never thought about? It's like we were reading two different book series.


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