Author Topic: Why don't you like Cassie?  (Read 5374 times)

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Offline agentAK

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Re: Why don't you like Cassie?
« Reply #30 on: February 13, 2009, 03:35:09 AM »
It's one am here. It's the only example I could think of. I just meant that she has more morals regarding acquiring a sentient creature than killing one. She outright refuses to morph a human, but she settles with just "disapproving" over killing innocent Hork-Bajir.
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Offline JFalcon

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Re: Why don't you like Cassie?
« Reply #31 on: February 13, 2009, 10:54:21 AM »
 Yeah . . . to be honest given that Hork-bajir are supposed to be few in number with a slow reproducive rate (this was stated in Visser) it seemed odd to me that in addition to all the ones the Animorphs killed or maimed Visser 3 by doing things like executing them for making dumb comments and doing genetic experiements on them, you think Visser 3 would run out of stock after a while, been forced to use nothing but human controlers and then win the war because the Animorphs would be powerless because they always tried not to kill humans  :P
 Or you know, at least notice that casualties are always staggering with Taxxons, high with Hork-bajir and comparatively nonexistant with humans and therefore use humans more often.
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Offline agentAK

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Re: Why don't you like Cassie?
« Reply #32 on: February 13, 2009, 11:33:48 AM »
I don't think they are really that few. I mean, "small" in number can mean lots of different thing, depending on your perspective. Visser might just mean that there aren't enough Hork-Bajir for the number of yeerks they have, and they breed slowly. If Hork-Bajir can for numerous large colonies over an entire plant they can't be THAT close to extinction...
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Offline JFalcon

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Re: Why don't you like Cassie?
« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2009, 12:01:22 PM »
Well true, but they're the shock troops of the entire empire and their intial stock was hit by a quantum virus so you'd think whatever's left would be divvied out in varying numbers to all the Vissers, even sub-Vissers have some Hork-Bajir under their direct command, I mean they're the go to ground troop of the Empire and the're half the crew of all the bug fighters, the only Yeerk attack craft we ever see (though we see a variant in 11) so you'd think Visser 3 would be a little less tail crazy on them, you also have to figure since he's the only Visser (We know of) who's losing them to a free colony he'd have to explain why he has so many KIAs and MIAs on a planet where there shouldn't be any strong resistance, just a ragtag band of bandits.

If I were his superior officer I wouldn't send him replacements based on that alone, I'd send them to the front lines and tell him to make due with his new Human controllers, after all that is what he's there to gather. Nevertheless I think I even remember Visser 1 making a joke about Visser 3's rough treatment of his Hork-Bajir so I doubt it's uncommon or all that harshly frowned upon for Vissers to be overly aggresive in their disciplinary actions, the question is if there are forty something Vissers all commanding entire armies losing Hork-Bajir left and right why didn't they try to find a back up shock troop?  I mean I thought that's what they intended to use humans for, a go-to host since they were so numerous, yet Visser 3 rarely risks large numbers of human controllers, he prefers to send in squads of Hork-Bajir, if he'd used more human controllers the Animorphs and Cassie in particular would have had a harder time fighting simply because while they show little and no concern about Hork-Bajir or Taxxon life respectively they always try to avoid killing humans, and if they didn't I'm sure good old Cassie would give them such a talking to they'd know better next time.

A mixture of Visser 3 using more human controllers (before they became morph capable that is) and Cassie's strong morals could have ended the Animorphs, or at least made things much harder for them . . . I guess that's a reason not to like Cassie, though it's kind of a poor one since Visser 3's determination to set Hork-Bajir against alleged Andalite instead of swarming them with humans like he was supposed to prevented us from seeing if she'd react tht way . . . she might have taken a JtHM approach to it and just gotten with the swing of things, finding little reasons to justify the killing . . . while listening to classical music.

I think I'd have liked her a bit more then.
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Offline agentAK

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Re: Why don't you like Cassie?
« Reply #34 on: February 13, 2009, 06:24:38 PM »


...If I were his superior officer I wouldn't send him replacements based on that alone...

 . . . she might have taken a JtHM approach to it and just gotten with the swing of things, finding little reasons to justify the killing . . . while listening to classical music...

Part A. I wouldn't give him anymore Hork-Bajir either.

Part B. What's JtHM?
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Offline JFalcon

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Re: Why don't you like Cassie?
« Reply #35 on: February 14, 2009, 12:34:27 AM »
Johnny the Homicidal Maniac. Except in this case it'd be Cassie the Homicidal Maniac so CtHM.  ;)
"I would be a ghost of this dynasty before I'd be a general of rebels and traitors!" ~ Pang De, Romance of the Three Kingdoms

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Offline ChimichangaChupacabra

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Re: Why don't you like Cassie?
« Reply #36 on: February 14, 2009, 01:24:56 AM »
I don't think they are really that few. I mean, "small" in number can mean lots of different thing, depending on your perspective. Visser might just mean that there aren't enough Hork-Bajir for the number of yeerks they have, and they breed slowly. If Hork-Bajir can for numerous large colonies over an entire plant they can't be THAT close to extinction...

Quantum virus ring any bells?

Alloran launched a fairly successful bio-genocide attack on them.  The HB homeworld war was pretty much Vietnam on roids, only this time with mass extermination.  The population as of the 1990's is probably a couple million, maybe even less, hundreds of thousands.
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Offline morfowt

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Re: Why don't you like Cassie?
« Reply #37 on: February 14, 2009, 01:32:55 AM »
I believe in visser, it was said that there were thousands of hork-bajir...

Offline ChimichangaChupacabra

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Re: Why don't you like Cassie?
« Reply #38 on: February 14, 2009, 01:55:59 AM »
Yeah.  It's definitely not in the tens of millions, certainly not billions like us.  Taxxons and Andalites are unknown, but they're likely to count their numbers in millions too, not the bizzizleions.
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Offline agentAK

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Re: Why don't you like Cassie?
« Reply #39 on: February 14, 2009, 02:01:51 AM »
I don't think they are really that few. I mean, "small" in number can mean lots of different thing, depending on your perspective. Visser might just mean that there aren't enough Hork-Bajir for the number of yeerks they have, and they breed slowly. If Hork-Bajir can for numerous large colonies over an entire plant they can't be THAT close to extinction...

Quantum virus ring any bells?

Alloran launched a fairly successful bio-genocide attack on them.  The HB homeworld war was pretty much Vietnam on roids, only this time with mass extermination.  The population as of the 1990's is probably a couple million, maybe even less, hundreds of thousands.

Yes, but the Yeerks love Hork-Bajir hosts. I doubt that they'd use them as shock troupes if there was a danger that the HB would become extinct from battles. 
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Offline JFalcon

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Re: Why don't you like Cassie?
« Reply #40 on: February 14, 2009, 03:29:37 AM »
I'm sure they had breeding programs and measures to make sure that the Hork-Bajir wouldn't go extinct, but they were too careless about them. Doing genetic experiments, casul executions (Visser 3 at one point throws one out an air lock because it broke his concentration) and we know that the Yeerks used Hork-Bajir and . . . well, we don't know of anything else, as their front line soldiers and as garrison soldiers, Taxxons are implied as being more numberous yet still are more like a second line soldier so on a galactic scale the Yeerks were probably winning some fights, but any time they lost a battle, or lost a pool ship how many Hork-Bajir did they lose, and could they replace them quickly enough?
I remember now that they mention Hork-Bajir reach maturity fast, Toby was an adult by the end of the series wasn't she? So a 2-3 earth year wait for a combat ready Hork-Bajir controller . . . I mean it's possible that the Yeerks could maintain Hork-Bajir numbers during the war, certainly better than the Andalites, when but I still feel like with carelessness like that shown by Visser 3 they would have seen numbers dropping gradually, or even rapidly.
I mean in the end what did they plan to use humans for? They don't pilot bug fighters, they don't go into combat, they might be technicians and they do help to crew the Blade Ship and Pool Ship, I guess freeing Hork-Bajir and Taxxons up to be used in ground combat, but still did Visser 3 have a quota of humans needed, a number he had to maintain thus explaining why he didn't risk them very often? I mean why play an ace if a two will do? Why risk a Hork-Bajir when you can use a human? He's on earth, he can replace humans much more easily, kidnap homeless people off the street, no one would notice or care, it doesnt matter that they're not voluntary or that they're not in a position of power, for a dracon toting grunt to be thrown at the andalite bandits you don't need the president of the united states, just a body with a trigger finger.
There is a Japanese saying that goes something like buy 100 spears for 10 gold, instead of one sword for 1,000 gold, losing even one Hork-Bajir would have been worse than losing a few humans, Visser 3 must have lost well over a hundred to the Animorphs even before the free Hork-Bajir started abducting them too, all in all I doubt his losses would have reached one thousand, but before becoming Visser 1 I doubt he should have had many more than a thousand of these soldiers on a simple harvest world, they'd need more of them for the worlds that do know they're being invaded and to fend off the Andalite fleets and armies.
The Animorphs went out of their way at times not to harm humans so losses in Yeerk life would have been reduced as well.
Instead Visser 3 says <Hork-Bajir . . . go use your blades, I want some entertainment . . . no, put the dracon beams down, I said use the blades.>
If I were a Hork-Bajir controller under his command I'd hop into a bug fighter and fly straight to Visser 4 with a copy of Visser 3's personal diary and say "Listen up dude, you want to be Visser 3, I want to make the current one look bad, give me a higher rank and you get to know who Visser 3 calls his "widdle schmoopykins"
Except it'd come out more like "Ghafrash, be Visser 3, ghafrash higher rank, fit me know, eked widdle schmoopykins!"
"I would be a ghost of this dynasty before I'd be a general of rebels and traitors!" ~ Pang De, Romance of the Three Kingdoms

"My brain! My brain! Me hurty to think!" ~ Zim, Invader Zim

"Fight it off? You must have me confused with someone who's brave." ~ Church, Red vs Blue

Offline ChimichangaChupacabra

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Re: Why don't you like Cassie?
« Reply #41 on: February 14, 2009, 03:29:54 AM »
They use them as shock troops because they're the only physically worthy hosts they have for the job.  Population has nothing to do with it.
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Offline Shock

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Re: Why don't you like Cassie?
« Reply #42 on: February 14, 2009, 07:04:48 PM »
I don't think they are really that few. I mean, "small" in number can mean lots of different thing, depending on your perspective. Visser might just mean that there aren't enough Hork-Bajir for the number of yeerks they have, and they breed slowly. If Hork-Bajir can for numerous large colonies over an entire plant they can't be THAT close to extinction...

Quantum virus ring any bells?

i find it somewhat funny that a "virus" that is based upon attacking the individual  molecule of the host can be resisted..

it's not even in the book of Biology, it's in the book of Physics
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Offline ChimichangaChupacabra

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Re: Why don't you like Cassie?
« Reply #43 on: February 14, 2009, 07:11:29 PM »
Well, they're using biological agents to attack...biology.  Using physics knowledge, sure, but it's still pretty much in the boundaries of a bio-weapon.
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Offline Aleron

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Re: Why don't you like Cassie?
« Reply #44 on: February 15, 2009, 02:08:18 AM »
I actually like Cassie.  When I first read the series, I hated her foolish morals and contradictory whining.  But now I admire her trying to keep to a code of right and wrong.  She helped represent the group's soul and embodied the things they were fighting for, so sue her if she didn't want to hate herself after the war was over.  What's humanity's survival worth if it becomes as amoral as the Yeerks, anyway?

And it wasn't like she couldn't kick ass, she had her share of throat-ripping just like the others did.  In book 29 I admire her strength.