Rachel and Tobias, Would she had liked him if he wasnt trapped as a hawk?

[esplin]

The pity factor here, think its relevant?
Keep in mind that she didn't really know Tobias before he was trapped, His personality is greatly effected by it.  It made him stronger, weaker, and many other things.  Think she would have still liked him?

Please disregard MM4, Rachel considered dating Marco in that book, PROVING it was a un-reality that could never exist. 

[Essam 293]

I dunno, I think MM#4 is actually important to making my point in this case. I re-read #30 just yesterday, and I found that Marco and Rachel actually clicked together pretty well throughout the book (from the playful teasing in the cafeteria to the way they kept up with each other on the final plan, despite their losing odds). The ending scene in #30, especially, showed how much alike they really are. Rachel basically knew not to BS or pity Marco about what happened, but to rather state the truth so that he could deal with the 'death' of his mother. Out of all of the Animorphs, she was the one that connected with him the most at his weakest point, and I think that's pretty important to consider because of how well they understood each other. From a strategic standpoint, I think they both saw things a bit similarly during the war also, so they both really had a lot going for them had they been paired up during the book series.

Anyways, the reason I'm saying all of this is because I feel the match up in MM#4 with Marco and Rachel wasn't completely outside the realm of possibility of Rachel being interested in Marco. Tobias, as you said above, always felt as a pity case to me when Rachel showed her feeling towards him. It's a relationship that I didn't really root for because I never really understood why Rachel would be attracted to Tobias other than pity. I mean, sure, she probably thought he was brave for fighting while living his life as a hawk, but even that is mixed with pity also. They really didn't have anything in common for the relationship to work, whether he was hawk or not.

[Nateosaurus]

Yea, I got the feeling it was a pity kind of relationship, I don't think that if Tobias wasn't trapped that they'd be together, they were way too different.

By the way, *proud* I edited the title to this thread as Russell, you spelt Tobias wrong

[Chad32]

In the beginning, Rachel and Tobias had something going. They seemed to at least recognize each other, and Rachel has a picture of Human Tobias. This was never really explained, so I don't have much to say about it. Their intire relationship may, indeed, be rooted in pity, but pity seems to be what Tobias' character is about. I think it's likely that Marco and rachel could get together. They'd be the kind of couple that bickered a lot, but also cared for each other.

[Kitulean]

Sorry, but I disagree. Tobias and Rachel work as a couple partly because they ARE different. They balance each other. Besides, Rachel showed concern for him even in the first book before he was trapped, iirc.

[Azguard]

Maybe Tobias was Rachel's soft spot, a part of her that faded more and more as the war went on. She felt that he was different enough, yet at the same time, a part of her that she longed for, that she felt that connection to Tobias. Rachel does have feelings!

Of course, even from the very beginning Tobias was Tobias and Rachel would have felt that anyway, so it could have been pity in the very beginning, that began to develop into something more. She started to realize that she didn't need to pity him, but at the same time, still cared about his well being.

[esplin]

My basic idea here, and the theme of the my latest animorph discussion after a long time, is that the war made these characters who we are.  We love them and connect with them as they fight this war, Its not like we have a few books of them not fighting it. Some chapters in the last book they're dealing with the aftermath but besides that its a look into the life of teenage warriors. Everything that happens is because of the war.

ABOUT MM4

I just feel that it was created by Crayak and basically never happened, like MM2.

[Liz]

I think Marco/Rachel would be a much more plausible pairing than Tobias/Rachel had the war not happened.  I know the scenario in MM4 had a lot of glitches/inconsistencies due to the fact that it was an artificial timeline, but I think some elements of that book could have come to pass, Marco/Rachel among them.

Maybe Tobias was Rachel's soft spot, a part of her that faded more and more as the war went on. She felt that he was different enough, yet at the same time, a part of her that she longed for, that she felt that connection to Tobias. Rachel does have feelings!

What always bothered me about Tobias' and Rachel's relationship was how Rachel kept pressuring Tobias to abandon his hawk form, but I think that relates to what you said about their connection.  I think Rachel was afraid of completely succumbing to the warrior side of her and she wanted to save Tobias from that.

How about the flip side: Would Tobias have liked Rachel if he hadn't been trapped?  Rachel represented one of his last ties to humanity--would he have needed her as much if he was still human?

[Azguard]

most guys like girls. =)

[Hylian Dan]

I didn't see Rachel's feelings as being just pity. Pre-war Rachel's often described as wanting and needing more from life, and Tobias complemented that side of her. There's a part of her that needs to be fighting for something, and in the first book she starts showing support and affection for Tobias when she sees how energized he is when he finds something to fight for. She describes herself and Tobias as fellow warriors. She also recognizes that Tobias is struggling to deal with the two sides of himself, the boy and the hawk, which helps her to balance her own two sides.

She has chemistry with Marco too, but I think her relationship with Tobias resonated much more with the deeper sides of her personality.

Without the war they probably would have still been friends, but with little chance of that deep bond forming.

[goom]

i think the pity helped boost the relationship at first, but she really loved him.

[spoiler]too bad it had to end that way [/spoiler]

[Azguard]

nice avatar and sig hylian dan. loving it!

but yeah, I think marco and rachel have chemistry, but tobias and rachel have bond and romance.

[estrid]

i think she really like tobias. if u look way back at the 1rst book when tobias is still human, she already seems to be starting to like him. she says she cares about him at the mall when tobias is sayin no1 else does and stuff. so i think had he stayed human, she woulda liked him still and proly they woulda been able to have a real relationship 2

[Azguard]

but why? is he good looking?

[estrid]

he always had a good discription i thought