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Author Topic: Did the Ellimist really kept his promise to Tobias?  (Read 2868 times)

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Offline CounterInstinct

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Did the Ellimist really kept his promise to Tobias?
« on: June 05, 2008, 09:10:51 AM »
He promised to Tobias in #13 that he would give Tobias the thing he wants right? Well, before Tobias got his "wish", he always daydreamed about being human (getting an easy breakfast, warm cozy bed, Rachel...) plus he also said that

Quote
Would the Ellimist give me back my human body and let me keep my morphing power? I hoped so. I'd hate to think that I would never fly again.

isn't that what Tobias wanted? To become human with bird powers.... err... morphing powers?
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I'm just a writer, and my main goal was always to entertain. But I've never let Animorphs turn into just another painless video game version of war, and I wasn't going to do it at the end. I've spent 60 books telling a strange, fanciful war story, sometimes very seriously, sometimes more tongue-in-cheek. I've written a lot of action and a lot of humor and a lot of sheer nonsense. But I have also, again and again, challenged readers to think about what they were reading. To th

Offline morfowt

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Re: Did the Ellimist really kept his promise to Tobias?
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2008, 09:25:19 AM »
But remember, the Ellimist also said, "yes but do you know, Tobias? And if I give it to you, will you still know?"

I think that's what tobias thought he wanted, but deep down inside he wanted to be human. The ellimist gave him that. The power to become fully human.

That's what I think anyway.
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Offline mrlarry

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Re: Did the Ellimist really kept his promise to Tobias?
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2008, 09:32:23 AM »
Yeah, essentially he believed he wanted to be human again, but didn't consciously realise that that meant going back to his old life, which he hated. A number of times, up until he got his morphing power back, it was clear that he hated not being able to fight alongside his friends. That's what he really wanted, so that's what the Ellimist gave him.
But the Ellimist also made it so he could hang out as a human with his friends. Because he had that ability he could have chosen to be completely human if he wanted. Clearly, he didn't want that.
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Offline ThermalRider

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Re: Did the Ellimist really kept his promise to Tobias?
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2008, 10:29:47 AM »
Yeah I agree. The only way I see Tobias ever returning to human form permanantly would have been if the war had been won and Rachel had lived. That's the only way, cause Rachel kept pressuring him to change to human and if the war was over then he could finally do it without worrying about leaving his friends.
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Offline Duff

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Re: Did the Ellimist really kept his promise to Tobias?
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2008, 10:34:30 AM »
yea, it was one of those tricky ones, he didnt give him absolutely everything he wanted, or said he wanted, to be human w/ the morphing power, he gave him one or the other, knowing he would pick the morphing power
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Offline Terenia

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Re: Did the Ellimist really kept his promise to Tobias?
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2008, 11:05:46 AM »
I think that what Tobias wanted was to become human and retain the morphing power. Whether he took everything that meant (ie returning to a crappy home life) into account or not is kind of irrelevent. I think that the Ellimist ended up splitting hairs. Maybe turning Tobias back into a human and giving him the morphing power would bend the rules too far. Maybe it had to be one or the other, and Ellimist chose the one that helped Earth as a whole.
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Offline Duff

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Re: Did the Ellimist really kept his promise to Tobias?
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2008, 11:15:14 AM »
well thats the thing, the ellimist didnt choose, he gave tobias the choice
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Offline Terenia

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Re: Did the Ellimist really kept his promise to Tobias?
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2008, 12:29:35 PM »
I don't think he really did give Tobias a choice. He just made it seem like there was a choice involved. Just like in #7 there was a "choice" that wasn't really a choice.

Because we all know that Tobias needs to be tortured even more.
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Offline Duff

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Re: Did the Ellimist really kept his promise to Tobias?
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2008, 01:22:50 PM »
well, maybe he saw that if he had returned to human permanently then it would have screwed up alot of things, he prob would have been infested straight away in 23 if he was still living with his uncle
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Offline RYTX

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Re: Did the Ellimist really kept his promise to Tobias?
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2008, 01:57:58 PM »
I think he got what he wanted.
I mean if Tobias wanted to be human, yeah he could have done it. He'd have to pull out of the fight, so maybe that's way he didn't, maybe he didn't want to leave his friends, maybe he didn't want to give up morphing. But if he had wanted to be human he could have done it, so I think he got what he wanted most.

Besides so much of Tobias's story is about how he was screwed over as a human, and how he came to accept, even enjoy life as a hawk.
Can't have your cake and it too, I suppose
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Offline CounterInstinct

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Re: Did the Ellimist really kept his promise to Tobias?
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2008, 08:06:42 PM »
I've reread the 13th book last night, and I don't know, I just thought about things up. Man, I can't help feeling sorry for the Bird-boy...  :-\

Anyway, Tobias actually wanted to become human and retain morphing power, that was what he wanted.
However, as morfowt pointed out, the Ellimist said:
Quote
"AND WHAT DO YOU WANT IN RETURN?
"Well, you know..."
YES, BUT DO YOU KNOW TOBIAS? AND IF YOU HAVE IT, WILL YOU STILL KNOW?"

Tobias thought he wanted to become human again, but later in the final chapter of the book, he realizes that life as a human Tobias sucked anyway. No cozy bed, no delicious (but still easy) breakfast... the only thing he would gain from being human again is Rachel and the others. He was just satisfied in gaining the morphing power back... sure, the "Ellimist" "cheated" him, but he couldn't do anything about that.

Tobias, suddenly being in his room again, back in time, was just a bonus. I guess the Ellimist thought that what he did was fair enough, and gave him a chance to become human once in a while. That way, he would always be anything he wants. To be a hawk. And a boy. I think he got what he wanted.
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I'm just a writer, and my main goal was always to entertain. But I've never let Animorphs turn into just another painless video game version of war, and I wasn't going to do it at the end. I've spent 60 books telling a strange, fanciful war story, sometimes very seriously, sometimes more tongue-in-cheek. I've written a lot of action and a lot of humor and a lot of sheer nonsense. But I have also, again and again, challenged readers to think about what they were reading. To th

Offline StormRider

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Re: Did the Ellimist really kept his promise to Tobias?
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2008, 03:09:58 AM »
To be perfectly honest, Tobias was a whiney little **** throughout most of the first half of the series.  :(

He bettered himself though, so I guess it's all good.  I did feel sorry for him post-Pool Ship showdown, so I guess he wasn't irredeemable.  Just...man.  That feeling-sorry-for-myself in his first few books got old real fast.

Ellimist was just being Ellimist, y'know?  He didn't cheat, he didn't lie, he just wasn't clear on specifics.  Vague.  Not necessarily lying or deceiving.  Just omitting. 
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Offline CounterInstinct

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Re: Did the Ellimist really kept his promise to Tobias?
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2008, 07:22:55 AM »
Hey! Don't diss the bird-boy!  ;D

Seriously, he wasn't whiney. In fact, he tried his best not to feel sorry for himself. Imagine yourself living your life as a bird. Forever. YOu can't even touch the people you love. You have to kill rabbits and mice to live. No warm bed.

Or take it farther back, you never knew your parents, and neither your aunt of uncle never wanted you. Plus you were a bully magnet. Can you still be happy?

He wasn't feeling sorry for himself back in number 3 and 13, in fact, it was Rachel and Jake who worried about Tobias the most, and Tobias just resents that Jake and Rachel worry about him.
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I'm just a writer, and my main goal was always to entertain. But I've never let Animorphs turn into just another painless video game version of war, and I wasn't going to do it at the end. I've spent 60 books telling a strange, fanciful war story, sometimes very seriously, sometimes more tongue-in-cheek. I've written a lot of action and a lot of humor and a lot of sheer nonsense. But I have also, again and again, challenged readers to think about what they were reading. To th

Offline wotw2112

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Re: Did the Ellimist really kept his promise to Tobias?
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2008, 09:11:34 PM »
The Ellimist just did the bare minimum to get Tobias back in the game.  There was nothing benevolent about the whole regifting him his morphing power.  Remember, he had chosen Tobias to fight the Yeerks because he was Elfangor's son (he stacked the deck to begin with).  It didn't really matter what Tobias wanted cause the Ellimist didn't care.  He just needed Tobias to be more useful in the fight against the Yeerks.

As always, the Ellimist was just serving his own purposes.
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Offline morfowt

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Re: Did the Ellimist really kept his promise to Tobias?
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2008, 10:12:17 PM »
Again, him stacking the deck is only something people assumed (or in drode's case, accused), but it hasn't been confirmed.
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