Author Topic: Skippable books  (Read 3040 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Chad32

  • God
  • ********
  • Posts: 11951
  • Karma: 195
  • Gender: Male
Re: Skippable books
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2015, 10:47:26 AM »
In her defense, four isn't bad. Nine was a chore, though, cementing not only her naivety, but also Visser Three's badass decay. Then in 14 we get the "no morphing Humans just because" line. We get her abandoning the group because she doesn't want to change in 19. Helmacrons in 24. 29 gets points for YPM, and Aftran's deadpan statement of "No Cassie, he's screaming because he has a Yeerk in his head.". Not that much of anything is done with the YPM afterwards. She got the book with some free Hork-Bajir going to start a resistance on the Homeworld that's never mentioned again. Austrailia. Another Helmacron book where she says the Yeerks geting the box would be the worst things ever, and the end of book 50 where she betrays the group by letting Tom's Yeerk escape witht he box.

She's a character who never grows, gets preachy about things that would become irrelevant if they lost the fight, and it's sometimes hard to see that her role in the group is an important one. I'd just rather that role be filled by someone less annoying and more dynamic.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2015, 10:51:15 AM by Chad32 »


Ani-Master 2014!

Offline RainOfBlood

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • Keeping It Real
Re: Skippable books
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2015, 06:29:36 PM »
If I was head douce in charge, I would have cut her from the team the very second she became a liability. "But the blah blah are sentient, and the skunk needs a blah blah blah! We have to save the blah blah or the rain forests will blah! Oooooh, Jake i'ma gonna tell miss frizzle on you!" Just stfu Cassie. If there was a weakest link in the group, it would that monumental whiner.
Remember Constantinople!

Offline NothingFromSomething

  • Xtreme Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 4284
  • Karma: 70
  • Gender: Male
Re: Skippable books
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2015, 03:16:55 AM »
Bwaha.  Yeah, that whiner that kept 'em all alive and sane through a whole 3 year war.

I mean, tree-huggers bug me as much as the next person, but Cassie was never one of the irrational ones who did it without a point.  She always had her head in the game and acted on pragmatism. 

Person Of Interest re-watch.  Still stunning as ever.

Offline Chad32

  • God
  • ********
  • Posts: 11951
  • Karma: 195
  • Gender: Male
Re: Skippable books
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2015, 09:02:25 AM »
Really? I seem to remember at the end she completely abandons Jake until Marco convinces her to help him, and Tobias goes full hawk and leaves Human society altogether. And when Marco wanted to do something different with his life, he morphed lobster in his pool instead of going on a proper vacation. alive and sane. Sure.

Always had her head in the game, and acted on pragmatism? I think we were reading a different book series.


Ani-Master 2014!

Offline NothingFromSomething

  • Xtreme Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 4284
  • Karma: 70
  • Gender: Male
Re: Skippable books
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2015, 09:14:20 AM »
When the hell did Cassie "abandon" the others after the war?  If anything it was Jake that withdrew from everyone.  Marco and Cassie were the only real functioning ones for a while there, and she hardly abandoned Jake. 

Person Of Interest re-watch.  Still stunning as ever.

Offline Chad32

  • God
  • ********
  • Posts: 11951
  • Karma: 195
  • Gender: Male
Re: Skippable books
« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2015, 10:15:40 AM »
Jake was withdrawn, yes. He needed Cassie more than ever, but she didn't even talk to him for years from what I remember. Marco kept an eye on him, but he was never really all that touchy feely. I think he asked Cassie to marry him before the war ended, but she pushed him away. For someone who is supposed to be more in tune with other people, neglecting someone who is going through a crisis isn't very smart.


Ani-Master 2014!

Offline NothingFromSomething

  • Xtreme Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 4284
  • Karma: 70
  • Gender: Male
Re: Skippable books
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2015, 11:30:49 AM »
The book pretty clearly gives the impression that the little-to-no-contact between the two of them was totally on Jake, though.  Cassie was actually taking college classes and working to preserve the Hork-Bajir colonies and stuff (essentially making sure they didn't lose all they'd fought for to looney human radical groups/terrorists), while Jake was moping over the tragedies of Rachel/Tom and Tobias in his parent's house 24/7.  It seemed both Cassie and Marco had been trying to drag him out of it for quite a while, though Jake being Jake it was pretty impossible.

It's been a while since I've read it, but I'm almost 100% sure the marriage thing not panning out was totally mutual with them no longer feeling it.  Or even Jake figuring it all wasn't the same post-war, what they had together during those years.

The neglect thing is BS.  That book picks up, what, a year after the events of the pool ship?  It's implied (nothing explicit, but suggested) that both Marco and Cassie were "there for him" during that period but he was just too deep in his head stuff to listen to anyone.  That's the whole point of the trial sequence, Jake finally pulling his head out of his ass.

Person Of Interest re-watch.  Still stunning as ever.

Offline Chad32

  • God
  • ********
  • Posts: 11951
  • Karma: 195
  • Gender: Male
Re: Skippable books
« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2015, 12:06:25 PM »
Maybe I need to reread the book, then. My dislike of Cassie may have made me blame the distance on her, and since it's been onver a decade since I read 54 my memory is foggy. I thought she cut off contact with pretty much everyone. Marco and Tobias as well. Though she did know where Tobias lived.

Not sure I'll actually reread that part again, but I'll concede for now. My sympathies have been much more on Jake than Cassie.


Ani-Master 2014!

Offline NickDaGriff

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 706
  • Karma: 51
  • Gender: Male
  • RAF's resident geeky gryphon
    • My deviantArt
Re: Skippable books
« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2015, 04:00:20 AM »
I'll just copy the list I sent to my sister here:

[spoiler]XenoFrobe said the following:

Here are the books in the order you should read (or skip over) them:

1: The Invasion
2: The Visitor (Other people say skip, I say read.  Sets up Rachel and Tobias nicely.)
3: The Encounter (One of Tobias' most badass moments in here)
4: The Message
5: The Predator
6: The Capture
7: The Stranger

Megamorphs 1: The Andalite's Gift (Skip this one. Just a rushed monster of the week episode.)

8: The Alien
9: The Secret (In which Cassie is a terrible person.  Sets up her character for some weird decisions later.  Optional.)
10: The Android (Real life fan who won a contest online got to be an insert character, and accidentally ended up becoming a major side character in the series because Applegate like him. XD)
11: The Forgotten (Just a stable time travel loop episode that hits the reset button. Skip.)
12: The Reaction (Optional. Rachel makes some dumb moves in here.)
13: The Change (Tobias book=good book)
14: The Unknown (ohgodnoskipskipskip)
15: The Escape
16: The Warning (Obligatory "internet is full of creeps" PSA episode, but it is AWESOME anyway.)
17: The Underground (Meh, filler. "Battles that involve oatmeal are just never going to end up being historic, you know?")
18: The Decision (Way cool episode.  Aliens rule.)

Megamorphs 2: In the Time of Dinosaurs—(Creates some inconsistencies, but makes up for it with great character moments.)

19: The Departure (Great Cassie episode, mainly because it show what a horrible hypocrite she is.)

The Hork-Bajir Chronicles

20: The Discovery
21: The Threat ---------DAVID TRILOGY HOLY CARP
22: The Solution

The Andalite Chronicles (This one has the same plot twist as 23, so read in whichever order you want. I love the Doctor Who/Star Trek campy sci-fi feel of this one, though.)

23: The Pretender (Great Tobias episode.)
24: The Suspicion (Oh man the Helmacrons are annoying. Skip.)

AND THUSLY BEGINS THE ERA OF GHOSTWRITIA.

25: The Extreme (Optional filler episode, but has a potentially [unconfirmed] significant reference if you're trying to figure out some backstory much later.)
26: The Attack (Actually by Applegate, not a ghostwriter.  One of my favorites.)
27: The Exposed
28: The Experiment (lol vegans. Applegate herself went in and changed the last chapter to have everyone eating hamburgers just to spite the ghostwriter, that's how bad it was.)
29: The Sickness (Cassie's greatest moment and episode here. She gets to be badass for once.)

Megamorphs 3: Elfangor's Secret (Time travel, hits the reset button, but does it well and HOLY CARP THIS IS BLOODY. Drives the whole anti-war theme of the series home as well as the finale, in some ways.)

30: The Reunion (PAYOFF)
31: The Conspiracy (Debatably skippable.  It's an poor plot, but provides important context for later.)
32: The Separation (Worst possible Rachel episode. No.)
33: The Illusion (Pretty messed up episode. I like it.)
34: The Prophecy (Tie-in with Hork-Bajir Chronicles.  Filler.)
35: The Proposal (Kinda goofy and dumb, but lays down some important plot for later and sets up for Visser. Applegate actually said this was one of her least favorites in the series, but it's still important.)

Visser (Basically The Yeerk Chronicles. Beginning of the Earth invasion. This is one of the books that makes you wonder how they got away with selling this to kids. Sex, drugs, alcohol, and brutal violence play pretty heavily in here, even if it's not all explicitly onscreen.)

36: The Mutation (Meh, filler.)
37: The Weakness (Some character stuff for Rachel.)
38: The Arrival (Interesting deconstruction of a Mary Sue character.  More Andalites are always good.)
39: The Hidden (I like this one even though everyone else hates it, it's a good Cassie episode. I actually felt torn.  Still filler though.)
40: The Other (Filler, and raises some questions, but introduces a new side to Ax.  Also, more Andalites.)

Megamorphs 4: Back to Before (The obligatory 'It's a Wonderful Life' episode. Optional, but interesting and reveals something about Cassie.)

41: The Familiar (Skippable 'potential future' episode.)
42: The Journey (STUPID HELMACRONS NO GO AWAY)
43: The Test (It finally happens  :D)
44: The Unexpected (Filler, but not horrible filler.  You get to pretend Cassie is a cool character for a little while.  Skip it anyway, not worth the time.)

(The endgame begins here. Hoo boy, does it pick up.)

45: The Revelation (Several moments I was waiting for through the whole series, finally realized. :D )
46: The Deception
47: The Resistance
48: The Return
49: The Diversion (Maybe the best Tobias book. So many emotional moments, and it highlights why I like him as a character.)
50: The Ultimate (Dang it, Cassie.)
51: The Absolute
52: The Sacrifice
53: The Answer
54: The Beginning (The reason I'm currently writing a fanfic. Depressing as all get-out.  If you want a great ending, don't read Marco's last chapter and just pretend it never exists.)

The Ellimist Chronicles (GOOD GOSH THIS IS SO SAD WITH CONTEXT. Seriously, the last line alone is the most depressing thing I've ever read. The whole thing is like all the sad moments in Doctor Who all wrapped up in one book. If you want to read it during the main series, probably read it just before the endgame kicks in.[/spoiler]

You're actually both right.  Jake shut the world out and didn't let anyone in until the trial.  He resisted any attempts to get him out of his PTSD shell.  Cassie was really put off when he finally admitted that he killed the Yeerks out of rage and revenge, which made her feel uncomfortable around him and led her to seek companionship elsewhere.  They both just kind of grew apart from each other.
[spoiler=A writer at heart:]
My sequel fic, Animorphs #55: The Following
My first Memoirs fic, A Geeky Gryphon's Origins

Offline NothingFromSomething

  • Xtreme Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 4284
  • Karma: 70
  • Gender: Male
Re: Skippable books
« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2015, 09:18:18 AM »
Cassie didn't seek out whatever that guy's name was (Ronnie?  Hazy memory) after Jake, it seemed she was pretty resistant to dating the guy if anything.  She still pretty obviously cared for Jake, and he for her, it just became less of a romantic thing post-war.  Perfectly valid, wartime dynamics and peacetime dynamics are usually totally different, plus they weren't exactly the same people after the war as they were going into it.  Jake was a hell of a lot darker of a human being, and Cassie wasn't quite as sweet and uncompromisingly hug-everyone-'cause-they're-all-super-happy-awesome-and-nice as she used to be either.

I don't think Cassie was too surprised about Jake's whole honesty-outburst of what he was thinking with the prisoners, either.  Just one of those things where it's upsetting to hear it actually verbalized and acknowledged.  She'd already seen him blackmail Erek and order Chapman kidnapped and threatened etc, she knew he had the capacity for that stuff in him.

As for your list, I don't know why you'd recommend any first-time reader skip any of them, though.  Sure, some of them are weaker than others, even borderline-unnecessary, but if someone's reading it through for the first time aren't they better off getting the full picture?  You don't gain anything by skipping books other than convenience & expediency, better to absorb the whole story even if sections of it aren't of quite the same quality as others.

« Last Edit: February 10, 2015, 09:19:52 AM by NothingFromSomething »

Person Of Interest re-watch.  Still stunning as ever.

Offline Chad32

  • God
  • ********
  • Posts: 11951
  • Karma: 195
  • Gender: Male
Re: Skippable books
« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2015, 09:25:41 AM »
Reading the filler books has caused some people to take a break from reading the series. It kind of depends on the peron.

I don't think Cassie ran into the arms of Ronnie, but I kind of thought of him as a replacement scrappy. Someone you don't like, not because of who they are, but because they're in someone else's spot. In the reader's opinion, at least. Jake and Cassie had something going before the war even started. They had their first kiss in 26. She had a complete breakdown in the megamorphs book where Jake (temporarily) died. Then everything went to crap in the final arc, and they broke up, and she's dating someone else. Not Ronnie's fault by any means, but he's "in Jake's spot". Not the most rational reason to dislike someone, but it happens.

Quote
54: The Beginning (The reason I'm currently writing a fanfic. Depressing as all get-out.  If you want a great ending, don't read Marco's last chapter and just pretend it never exists.)

I'm not a good writer. If I was, I'd be writing a proper ending where the Animorphs got what they deserved. I'm not talking about happy sunshine times, like some people accuse us of thinking when we rant about how bad the ending was. That's a strawman argument, as if we want to go from one extreme to the other.

though the more I think of it, the farther back I would go if I was going to write Animorphs AU. Change the whole final arc. Go further back to bring David back in 27 as a morph capable villain via Crayak copying what the Ellemist did in 13. Give other groups the spotlight more. Keep Visser Three from undergoing badass decay, mostly by showing him a LOT less. When he does show up, it's an "Oh crap, abort mission" moment. Let them defeat Sub-Vissers, who get knocked off for failure. Towards the end of the series, guess who gets the new slot? Now the animorphs have to save Tom because his slave master's failure means death.

So at the very least, change the last book and title it The End. I would have bet money on the final book having that title from very early in the series. At most, go WAY back to practically the beginning of the series and make some  (IMO) improvements.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2015, 10:43:17 AM by Chad32 »


Ani-Master 2014!

Offline NothingFromSomething

  • Xtreme Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 4284
  • Karma: 70
  • Gender: Male
Re: Skippable books
« Reply #26 on: February 10, 2015, 12:19:08 PM »
But doesn't that whole concept of "Cassie and Jake belong together" fall into the same notion of people wanting a happy ending in general?  Katherine and Michael seemed to have it not work out between them because they "belonged" together and the whole moral of the series is life isn't clean and overwhelmingly-just, it's messy and complicated and even a victory sometimes brings pain and confusion and regret.

If they ended up together "just because", it sort of negates all of that.  And, generally speaking, how many people actually end up with their highschool sweethearts longterm?  Granted most of those examples haven't fought a guerrilla war together through their adolescence, but all the same, it's unlikely in any even that it would work out just because it's "supposed to".

It basically just ties into the idea that they've both changed.  Yeah, Jake had a major crush on Cassie pre-construction site and Cassie seemed to reciprocate.  Yeah, they were in love during the conflict.  But they weren't the same people by the end, toward the conclusion of the war Jake was basically some 80-year-old WWII veteran mentally, and Cassie had seemingly come to the conclusion that people (humans/Andalites/Yeerks) were far crappier than she'd given them the benefit of the doubt for, but figured all she could do was try to do positive things herself, personally.  She's almost cynical by that final book.  And Jake's so weary he can barely keep himself together, let alone devote anything to Cassie.

Nothing's "meant to be".  Whatever actually happens is what was "meant to happen".

Person Of Interest re-watch.  Still stunning as ever.

Offline Chad32

  • God
  • ********
  • Posts: 11951
  • Karma: 195
  • Gender: Male
Re: Skippable books
« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2015, 02:24:38 PM »
People have argued that the series needed a dark ending, and accused the skeptics of wanting something way on the other end of the scale. All I can say is that I got quite attached to these characters. I didn't even really dislike Cassie all that much until the end of book 50. One of the themes in the early series was hope. Now after KAA lets the ghostwriters take over half of her series, she decides to go diablos ex machina on everything.

I didn';t want a springtime and flowers ending. Nobody did. What I did want was for them all to live through it, and end up in at least a somewhat stable place in their lives where they're able to somewhat enjoy the fruits of their labor. We went through a whole series with no sympathetic named characters dying, except for one megamorphs book where it was reversed, then suddenly Rachel and Tom are dead. the auxilaries are dead. Jara Hamee is dead. You can't make that dramatic a swerve without people getting whiplash.

I don't know how many people stay with their highschool sweethearts. I'll be honest, and say I don't have much experience with relationships. I will say that what happened in 49 and on was most likely the author's way of making things go as wrong as possible, whether it really made sense or not. Jake sending them to attack when they should have stayed away, then going to rescue his family last, knowing one of them is a controller? A lot of the final arc is contrived. If it was more organic, maybe it would feel more justified, but it wasn't.


Ani-Master 2014!

Offline Adam

  • British
  • Jr. Xtreme Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1496
  • Karma: 37
  • Gender: Male
  • Animorphs Fic Writer
Re: Skippable books
« Reply #28 on: February 10, 2015, 03:36:29 PM »
I think you hit the nail on the head there Chad. For a whole series, major characters seemed to be immune from death, and eventually it felt like it would continue. Suddenly, end of the series comes, and we get multiple character deaths, it's a complete change of tone. What's more, we were probably all kids when reading this, so it probably struck even harder!
Check out my Animorphs fan-fiction on this site!
http://animorphsforum.com/index.php?topic=9858.0


Offline Chad32

  • God
  • ********
  • Posts: 11951
  • Karma: 195
  • Gender: Male
Re: Skippable books
« Reply #29 on: February 10, 2015, 04:10:38 PM »
Complete change, and right at the end so the author didn't really have to worry about the consequences of it. That's a big reason it pissed me off so much. if you wanted to kill people off once in a while, fine. But do it in the middle, and deal with your decisions. Don't kill people in the last book, and try to tell me that's how it should be.


Ani-Master 2014!