Group Re-Read: #46 The Deception

[Terenia]

Summary
The Animorphs and Ax have managed to contract the Andalite home world. But the battle is far from over. Visser Two has arrived to Earth, and he' not happy about the state of things. He decides the best way to take over Earth is to have the humans destroy the people and the land the Yeerks don't need. He decides to start World War III.

Ax and his friends know that Visser Two means business and there will probably only be two ways to keep him from destroying everything they know: Find a way to stop the war. Or find a way to stop him...forever...

Questions
1) Why do you think it took this long to introduce another Visser beyond Esplin and Estrid?
2) What do you think about the decision to begin morphing humans without asking permission? Too far, or was it about time? Should they have crossed that line long before this book?
3) What was your impression of Visser Two?
4) The vast majority of this book consisted of fight scenes that involved Navy personel fighting side by side with the Animorphs. What did you think about this in general?
5) Did Ax make the right choice in technically betraying Jake? Why/why not?
6) Anything else?

Next week: #47 The Resistence

[dolphin4077]

1. I guess KAA and crew didn't want to go down the a new Visser for every book path.
2. Because I knew the Animorphs would never use human morphs for purposes unrelated to saving the world, I never had much of a problem with the Animorphs morphing humans.  I was ok with it during this book and the few times they did it before.   
3. My impression of Visser 2 was that he didn't make an impression.
4. Well it would've sucked if the Navy fought the Animorphs instead of the Yeerks.
5. Poor Ax, the whole situation kinda made him a matyr, especially when he said I'll take the blame because I'm the alien.  I felt for him. 
6.  Does anyone else feel
       A. It was a cop out not to explain how V3 got promoted to V1 other than the throwaway response of "Yeerk politics is weird."
       B. Rachel's portrayal is at its worst in Ax's books.

[Chad32]

1) Why do you think it took this long to introduce another Visser beyond Esplin and Estrid?
2) What do you think about the decision to begin morphing humans without asking permission? Too far, or was it about time? Should they have crossed that line long before this book?
3) What was your impression of Visser Two?
4) The vast majority of this book consisted of fight scenes that involved Navy personel fighting side by side with the Animorphs. What did you think about this in general?
5) Did Ax make the right choice in technically betraying Jake? Why/why not?
6) Anything else?

1)Not sure. I always wanted to know who V2 was.
2) Never had a problem with it because none of them would really abuse something like that. At least nothing really bad.
3) he comes off as very patriotic. he's all about glory for the Empire even though V3 basically jumped ahead of him for no obvious reason.
4) I think it's fine. I think the part where Ax consoles the dying man is touching, with him saying he really tried to fight the Yeerk.
5) Possibly. It worked, and didn't cause any lose of life or collateral damage. No problems with that.
6) Iniss stuns Ax and has him right in his grasp. So what does he do? Leaves Ax in a room without tying him up or anything. Kind of a stupid move, man. Either kill him or infest him. Anything else is just stupid. even if his host chapman is involuntary.

[MoppingBear]

1) Why do you think it took this long to introduce another Visser beyond Esplin and Estrid?
there arent that many visser's, it doesnt make sense to have more than one on earth.

2) What do you think about the decision to begin morphing humans without asking permission? Too far, or was it about time? Should they have crossed that line long before this book?
eh the line is hazy, but it was obviously necessary.

3) What was your impression of Visser Two?
crazy mofo

4) The vast majority of this book consisted of fight scenes that involved Navy personel fighting side by side with the Animorphs. What did you think about this in general?
in the words of batmite: "this is awesome-sauce!"
5) Did Ax make the right choice in technically betraying Jake? Why/why not?
Well it worked, but it definitely seems like it was the wrong decision morally.
6) Anything else?

[JFalcon]

1) Given that the Yeerk Empire apparently stretched light years and that there were only forty some odd Vissers I think it should have been totally reasonable that they never showed very many on earth, I guess when V3 got promoted they decided he needed more menacing henchmen than Iniss 226 and Taylor, which is odd because Taylor was pretty darn menacing.
2) As a kid when I read this book I don't think I apreciated the gravity of the decision and as an adult reading I mostly just had a "do what you've gotta do" feeling on the matter, so I guess in that light I would say this is something they should have been willing to do sooner though I can still understand their reluctance it seems misplaced when dealing with a threat to humanity in general.
3) [Insert amused chuckle] He left no real impression on me, he wasn't impressive he wasn't worth coming back to, he was a waste.
4) For some reason I'm not as wowed by them now as I was as a kid, but they were still worthwhile.
5) It's close to what I would have done in his place so maybe I'm a bit biased when I say that if not exactly right or wrong it was definately the smart thing to do 

6) Iniss stuns Ax and has him right in his grasp. So what does he do? Leaves Ax in a room without tying him up or anything. Kind of a stupid move, man. Either kill him or infest him. Anything else is just stupid. even if his host chapman is involuntary.

I'm with you on this, that's like in Austin Powers where Dr. Evil inentionally placed Powers in an easily escapable situation for no other reason than that it's apparently how things are done when you're a villain capturing a hero. There it was worth a bit of a laugh and to be honest when I think about it it's actually pretty funny here too.

[Gafrash]

1) Why do you think it took this long to introduce another Visser beyond Esplin and Estrid?

No idea. Surely it was something the authors knew fans had on the back of their mind. I always asked myself 'if we'd already seen a V4, and V1 and V3 have a heavy impact on the series, why haven't we seen the works of a V2!?!?'.
Perhaps a V2 would have diluted the threats the two Vissers were still building up as the series came along. If, say, V2 took the role of V3 during the David saga, we wouldn't have had the strategist side of V3.

2) What do you think about the decision to begin morphing humans without asking permission? Too far, or was it about time? Should they have crossed that line long before this book?

I think never were the stakes so high. In some ways, this makes me realize that it was here that they were finally starting to see morphing more as weapons in the war. The only true advantage they had in the series. The tactics have to match the weight of the missions, not for the sake of being easy, but for the sake of the enemy's defeat.
When they were infiltrating missions, they COULD avoid morphing humans. But when time was a factor in a large ship where the only 'local animals' were humans and the best way to get around and detect another 'human' target was to morphs another human, the only logical answer is to MORPH ANOTHER HUMAN.
And how many morphings did they do in this book?!?! Jeez.

3) What was your impression of Visser Two?

I was looking for something that made him measure up against V1 and V3, but besides being a great tactician, there wasn't much there, was there?! He wasn't ignorant and bloodthirsty like Esplin (he backed down when a greater threat to his people reared on its head) and he wasn't quite ruthless and canniving like Edriss (he puts his body on the field of action).
There were strong hints of him being an expert puppet master had him been inserted into the series earlier on and would have made a much heavier impact. But either than that, I didn't get anything more from this Visser. Gotta agree with JFalcon, it was a bit of a waste.

4) The vast majority of this book consisted of fight scenes that involved Navy personel fighting side by side with the Animorphs. What did you think about this in general?

I was a bit lost at some of these scenes. I couldn't picture the navy mentality compacting with the earth animals fighting off the same enemy. I actually think the navy would have been more like a 'Whattahell-don't-know-what-to-do!!!' kind of reaction and inevitably have fired at one of the Anis.

4) I think it's fine. I think the part where Ax consoles the dying man is touching, with him saying he really tried to fight the Yeerk.

I think this was a very strong scene. Kinda reminded me of the one in #MM3 where he is being bombarded and trapped under bodies on the beach. And may well have been the one that sent Ax over the edge to do what he did.

5) Did Ax make the right choice in technically betraying Jake? Why/why not?

Not sure whether it was THE right choice, because I don't know why, but I could have seen Jake going with Ax's plan, had he had the time to explain it. I am more concerned with the fact that Ax had the time to coherce his teamates into helping him, but no time to get Jake's authorization.
But I see this just as a detail, to be honest. If it was a plot device, Jake could well have been knocked out in the actual fight and the decision could have been made by Ax alone. Would that still be classified as betrayal?
And I could never see Ax actually going through with the plan. Just can't.

6) Anything else?

When he backed down in that last scene, did anyone else feel it fit into the continuity of a Yeerk giving up when the odds are against them (ref.#6:The Capture)?! We kinda didn't see much of this factor in Yeerks once Jake gave us that insight, did we?! So I thought it was interesting witnessing it on a mighty Yeerk leader.

But more importantly, WHAT THE HELL did Ax do to this Visser, sworn enemy to the Earth cause, once he landed with the plane?!?!?! It frustrated me heaps how the book just ends without addressing that.

[comet266]

1) Why do you think it took this long to introduce another Visser beyond Esplin and Estrid?

Did you mean Edriss rather than Estrid?  I think that this primarily was Visser Three's project, so it kind of made sense to me that there were no other Vissers.  What doesn't make sense is not introducing more sub-vissers, since I'm sure there are plenty more of those in number.


2) What do you think about the decision to begin morphing humans without asking permission? Too far, or was it about time? Should they have crossed that line long before this book?

I definitely think this is something that would have made for some interesting plot twists in previous books and it could have been introduced a lot earlier.  There's a whole lot of potential for awesome storylines in there...they could have morphed highly influential controllers and snuck into meetings for one thing!  I know KA wanted to emphasize the moral implications with morphing other humans, but they had more than enough books to discuss this in earlier in the series...

3) What was your impression of Visser Two?

Ehhh - fanatical lunatic  I didn't understand why he didn't care more about his own life considering that's the theme with the other Yeerk hierarchy

4) The vast majority of this book consisted of fight scenes that involved Navy personel fighting side by side with the Animorphs. What did you think about this in general?

Meh.  Didn't really do much for me...

5) Did Ax make the right choice in technically betraying Jake? Why/why not?

If I were him, I probably would have just acted on my own without consulting Jake first, because Ax kinda already knew what Jake's answer would be to the question...In the end, it probably was a gamble worth taking as much as I hate to say it.

[RYTX]

1)Don't know. They should have though. Even if V3 is in charge, you never have just one general in a region.
2) About time, this became foolish by book 18 imo
3)I was disappointed. Devoted, sure, but I wanted, a calm collected loyalist, intend on the rise of his Empire, not Visser one getting his own fan-club president.
4) About time, and kick a$$. But I'm easy to please for a fight
5) You know, I don't like to think about it. It's easy to demonize him for it, but really, what else can you do
6)

Iniss stuns Ax and has him right in his grasp. So what does he do? Leaves Ax in a room without tying him up or anything. Kind of a stupid move, man. Either kill him or infest him. Anything else is just stupid. even if his host chapman is involuntary.

WHAT THE HELL did Ax do to this Visser, sworn enemy to the Earth cause, once he landed with the plane?!?

Never thought about this stuff ethier. but both good points. Damn plot holes

[Aluminator (Kit)]

Oh good, an Ax book. Wait, what? What do you mean it doesn't end in an 8? LIAR! ...you're serious? ...NO! That's... not correct! Something must be different! BRAIN... SHUTTING... DOWN... CAN'T... COMPREHEND...

1) Why do you think it took this long to introduce another Visser beyond Esplin and Estrid?

Probably just because the bad guys don't really need a large character base, since this series centers entirely around the heroes. Sure, they need someone you can hate at the front (Esplin), but beyond that, there's not a lot of room for characters on the dark side. It would need to be a series with considerably different viewpoints than it has in order to start developing more villains. So, since the villains are necessarily somewhat one-dimensional anyway, there's really no need to bring in more.

2) What do you think about the decision to begin morphing humans without asking permission? Too far, or was it about time? Should they have crossed that line long before this book?

I never thought it was as bad as they made it out to be anyway. "We'd be controlling the people we morph, that makes us as bad as the Yeerks!" That seems like a pretty shaky argument to me, considering all you're getting is a body with instincts anyway. In any case, I think they would have started it earlier if they really understood how dire their situation was.

3) What was your impression of Visser Two?

I dunno... he really was all about the empire, with no designs for himself. How else do you explain that he fully supports the new Visser 1, rather than resenting him for having passed him in rank? My guess is that he's got some sort of personal connection to the Council that keeps him loyal to the empire at all costs... in which case he should probably be Visser 1 anyway... but now I'm just speculating wildly. The guy's a nutjob, and how he's managed to get as far as he has in life baffles me.

4) The vast majority of this book consisted of fight scenes that involved Navy personel fighting side by side with the Animorphs. What did you think about this in general?

Awesome scenes, though a bit depressing to think of an entire battlegroup fried for no real reason. I think I agree with Gafrash on this one- it was just sheer dumb luck that all of them decided to fight the aliens and not take potshots at the animals- though once the battle had really gotten underway, it'd probably be more obvious.

5) Did Ax make the right choice in technically betraying Jake? Why/why not?

Ax pulled a Marco. He saw the clear, straight line. He knew how to solve his problem, and he did it, regardless of everything else. I don't know whether he would have actually nuked the pool... it's good psycho-man backed down. I can't actually see any other plan that might have worked. Like comet was saying, there probably would have been a better way of going about it within the dynamics of the team, but it's almost an oxymoron to just say "Andalite" and "tact" in the same sentence, so I'll let him slide.

Y'know, this plan shouldn't have worked either. Ax is the luckiest SOB in the entire universe. How else would he have gotten a fully loaded, undamaged, nuclear-armed F-14 that was already on the catapult, and flown it out of range of a couple of Bug Fighters in the direction of the Yeerk Pool, all with a kidnapped Yeerk Visser onboard, without raising suspicions?

6) Anything else?

6.  Does anyone else feel
       A. It was a cop out not to explain how V3 got promoted to V1 other than the throwaway response of "Yeerk politics is weird."
       B. Rachel's portrayal is at its worst in Ax's books.

Yes, I would love to know how Visser 3 managed that promotion. Unless the Yeerks are very... not bright, there'd better be a good explanation for that one. And, yeah, Rachel was portrayed... almost frighteningly inconsistently throughout most of the ghostwritten books... I didn't notice any special turdburglary in the Ax books, but I'll keep my eyes open for it from now on, since you've said something...

But more importantly, WHAT THE HELL did Ax do to this Visser, sworn enemy to the Earth cause, once he landed with the plane?!?!?! It frustrated me heaps how the book just ends without addressing that.

*shrug* Let him go and left Yeerk politics and Visser 1 to tear him apart for his failure?

6) Iniss stuns Ax and has him right in his grasp. So what does he do? Leaves Ax in a room without tying him up or anything. Kind of a stupid move, man. Either kill him or infest him. Anything else is just stupid. even if his host chapman is involuntary.

Well, Visser 1 has a standing policy against killing potential Andalite hosts, right? And if you're nervous about infesting an Andalite yourself with an angry host around, you might run for help. And if you're excited enough about having caught an Andalite host for yourself, you might forget to tie him up right? That seems reasonable right? ... right? *nods, satisfied* Right.

[Chad32]

Deep breaths Alumintor. Deep breaths. I still think what Iniss did was stupid. I think there was even a guard out there, though why he was outside the room and not inside I'm not sure. He could have held Chapman for Iniss. What more help does iniss need than a Hork?

I guess the plan is contrived a bit, but it's not the only contrived plan in the series that works out for the best.

[Terenia]

Anyone else notice how this book pretty much gives the 'okay' to show human death in the open? Prior to this book it's pretty much assumed that humans die, but it isn't detailed. Here Ax holds the one guys hand and he describes humans being incinerated one by one as they try to escape in life rafts.

[Gafrash]

I recall some similar scenes in #MM3, but you're otherwise right, Terenia.

I thought the story per si was good!
It ended badly, but I liked how it started right after where we left off on the previous book. The contact with the Andalite world attracted the enemy, like the Anis predicted and they were prepared. We've come a long way from #5:The Predator, here, haven't we?!

The story conveyed the sense of escalation, which was inevitably going to happen, as it was hinted, with Visser One's death. She was the only thing holding Visser Three back. Essentially if this strategic plot to enslave the humans didn't culminate, the Yeerks would have to resort to the-now-Visser-One.
All these things, plus the human-death (as Terenia says), showed how the series was changing pace, which was vital. And the fact that the Anis were willing to acquire humans, meant they were rising to the task. The war was changing, they had to change with it.
This was a great point in the series.
PS: Pity the following 2 books kind of don't quite capture that.

...Ax is the luckiest SOB in the entire universe. How else would he have gotten a fully loaded, undamaged, nuclear-armed F-14 that was already on the catapult, and flown it out of range of a couple of Bug Fighters in the direction of the Yeerk Pool, all with a kidnapped Yeerk Visser onboard, without raising suspicions?...

Hahaha! Man, we gotta look past these plot holes. Animorphs is FULL of these 'convenient' devices to make the story work out. Stuff that got past under radar when we were kids, but the story would have been crap without them. Just gotta believe that's how it happened, or, if you prefer, blame the Ellimist for these quirky things. It's the Ani-verse! What they say, really happened!!! Heheheh!

[Terenia]

This book also continued with the random messages integrated into the book that was at the end of the previous book. The whole

-------------------
We are coming.
                  You will be ours.
------------------

...or something like that. I'm pretty sure that didn't continue past this book, but the whole concept of it still kind of weirds me out. Definitely a question to ask katmike in the future. Did they anticipate this going anywhere? I imagine at this point in the series they knew it was near its completion...

[Gafrash]

Yeah. It HAS to be some sort of Yeerk broadcast, inserted here, because the Anis finally got a hold of a Z-tapping device. I suspect we only got two of these because the two stories/books are kind of linked. We don't see Ax using the device until books-later, anyway.
The message is enigmatic because we don't really know if the 'You' they are talking about is referant to 'the human race' or 'the Anis themselves' or, even, 'us', the readers. And 'We are coming'!?!?!? The Yeerks are already here! What gives?!
AGAIN: sloppy ghostwriters.

[AniDragon]

Hmm, this book generally made me thing that katmike might have been trying to cater to the readers a bit too much. Back in the day, there was TONS of speculation about V2, but I don't think katmike ever intended to actually include him. I always felt like this book was them going: "Okay, here's Visser Two, now stop asking about him!"

But, other than that, though, this book was still fairly interesting, and a lot heavier now that I'm older with Ax's decision to threaten to blow up the Yeerk pool as well as the city. I agree that though it's morally ambiguous, it was still a very smart move.