A universe without the Ellimist

[anijen21]

All right, so by the end of the series, we find out that most of the way the galaxy was shaped was due to the Ellimist's actions. Without him, the Andalites might have been hunted to death by predators. Without him, in fact, Crayak may have overrun our galaxy very soon and everything would be dead.

That would be an uninteresting way to end this discussion though, but my question is: Exactly how much is the Ellimist responsible for? This question might actually be better framed like this:

Assuming the Ellimist's involvement directly influenced the development of the Andalite race, and the Andalites are responsible not only for the war, but for the involvement of the Hork-Bajir and Taxxons and humans, how much is the Ellimist responsible through the Andalites?

Because if you look at it, every step in the process where something goes wrong (or right, I guess) the Andalites are directly involved. So if they had never gotten *touched by the monolith* of the Ellimist, where would everyone be? The Taxxons would probably still be eating each other, the Hork-Bajir would be fine, and I guess we humans would have been wiped out when Crayak found us in the time of the dinosaurs.

I don't know. What are your thoughts?

[morfowt]

well the thing is, we don't know for sure the andalites would've been hunted down by predators. if I remember correctly, the ellimist did nothing to help their survival, and in fact, learned from the andalites themselves on how to keep life alive... if there was no ellimist, there might be a few less andalites than before, but I'm pretty sure the andalites would've survived and everything after it would happen.

then comes the pemalites. the ellimist more or less created the pemalites and told them to spread the seeds the life. the question is, which of those seeds of life affect the series. were any of them the arn, the taxxons, or humans? most likely one of them was human because the pemalites had visited earth before they were attacked by howlers. so that means no life on earth

however, if there was no life, crayak never would've targeted it, so earth would exist, just lifeless.

[RYTX]

I agree with morf for the most part.
Ellimist really did very little, I don't think he lead a crusade to wipe out predators, they'd probably endured that w/o him. I don't even think he did a lot to progress the use of thought speak since he was still using signing with his wife and what not.
As for the pemalites, I feel 1) The life they planted probably was "control" nothing so aggressive as Taxxons. I think anything they planted would be basically a less advanced version of themselves (Gaffian's Children or whatever they were. That type of thing) 2) I doubt they planted earth with people. The chee came back due to similairity b/w the world, and I believe, the wolves. Mammals on earth had their own seeding already, seeing as how they were what the Ellimist of prizing when he pulled the planet out of harms way. Just a thought.

I don't believe his role with the Andalites was that deterimental, so in theory all this could have gone on w/o him.
His course was really more notable on individuals. The time matrix so Elfangor and Tobias. And then there's the whole "stacking the deck" thing. W/o him potentially we have no animorphs, even if Elfangor so how would up back in the fight and dying on earth. I like to think we would, but I like to think lots of things that just aren't gonna happen

[Terenia]

I think that without the Ellimist everything would be the same up until a certain point. As soon as you throw the Time Matrix into the mix, you have problems.

No Time Matrix would simply mean that Elfangor's interaction with the humans would have ended as originally scheduled (probably), with Loren and Chapman being dropped off on Earth with memories erased and he would go on his way. Maybe he would become great, maybe not. But with no Time Matrix there would be no need to go to the Taxxon world with the humans, which would mean that Esplin 9466 does not infest Chapman and alert an old Skrit Na outpost of his findings, which means that Edriss does not abandon her post in search of Earth to begin the infestation.

Perhaps eventually Earth would have been found, but it would have been delayed.

Keeping this in mind, I would add that this would allow the Yeerks to concentrate their forces on Leera and in the Anati system. The Animorphs would obviously never exist as we knew them (Tobias wouldn't exist at all) and therefore they would not tip the balance of that war. Leera would fall, and possibly the Anati system as well since there would be more resources and host bodies to spare after a victory on Leera. Essentially, the Yeerks would become even more unstoppable. In the future, if they did discover Earth, they would have widespread Leeran and Anati hosts in addition to Hork-Bajir, Taxxons and Gedds, which would make the situation even more dismal for Earth.

Oh, and Visser Three never would have infested Alloran because he would have never BEEN on the Taxxon world to become infested. Maybe Esplin would work his way up the ranks, maybe not. Likely Edriss and Esplin would both struggle to make it to the top without their token victories.

[morfowt]

are we certain that the ellimist created the time matrix though? we don't see it mentioned in the ellimist chronicles, and that information came from the andalites, which I personally don't think are the most reliable source for facts on the ellimist?

[anijen21]

something laughed when they used it

but that could have been anyone

interesting

Wait but in MM3, it was the Ellimist and Crayak who were like its keepers, so unless they stole it from some other semi-omnipotent being, it's one of theirs. But it could be Crayak's.

interesting

[morfowt]

I think they're exact words were they were uncomfortable with a mere mortal having the power of the time matrix because it could threaten them. I don't think they said they were its keepers or anything...

[anijen21]

yeah but I'm saying like, no one swept down and said "what are you two punks doing with my Time Matrix?" So either the Ellimist and/or Crayak created it, and somehow through their rules agreed that neither should be its "owner," or someone else made it, vanished/died/gave it up, and the Ellimist and Crayak found it. Either way, the Ellimist and Crayak have far too much interest in it for them to not be involved in its ownership or at least concern.

[morfowt]

so if someone is running around your neighborhood with a nuke and no one can stop him, you're not gonna be just as worried?

[anijen21]

I'd be worried, but there would be nothing I could do about it, you know? The Ellimist and Crayak seemed to have the power to at least guide where the Time Matrix went. So if someone was running around with a nuclear bomb, they'd be its "keeper" until someone more powerful came along and said "either play by my rules or give it back" which was...sort of what happened...