Richard's Animorphs Forum
Animorphs Section => Animorphs Forum Classic => Topic started by: wotw2112 on August 18, 2008, 08:22:19 PM
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Did it seem odd to anyone else that it was so easy for Jake to flush 100,000s of Yeerks out of the poolship?
Wouldn't you think the Yeerks would want to make doing something like that pretty damn hard (if not impossible)? Like redundant security measures and passwords and stuff?
It seems unwise to have a big red button with a "Flush Yeerks Here!" sign above it...
Also, why would they even want something like that to be possible? In case they suddenly felt like having a genocide?
Any thoughts or explanations?
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My best guess would be that they had that system installed in order to deposit large numbers of Yeerks from the ship into a land based Yeerk Pool. As for the security, the Animorphs had to get past various security checks before even reaching the ship and then needed the help of an Andalite and an incredibly advanced android to hack into the ships systems. It was hardly easy.
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They said it was so they could repair the pool...
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Perhaps I didn't make myself entirely clear. I was thinking more of some kind of system that would make it impossible to operate the release controls when in orbit/anywhere out of atmosphere. It's just something that you would want to make impossible because there is no reason you would ever want to do it on purpose.
And the Yeerks knew all about the Andalite help and would (should) have designed security systems specifically to prevent andalite hacking (i'd think) though admittedly they'd have little in the way of defense against Erik.
Good point though about filling ground based pools (though I doubt the pool ship ever entered the earth atmosphere). Maybe it is for filling up temporary pools in smaller transport ships?
The whole thing just seemed far too easy.
And why wouldn't you have a safer means of emptying if you needed to "repair the pool"?
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Why would they bother installing a system that prevents the pool being flushed while in space? They arrogantly assumed that nobody would be able to get past security and hack into their systems, and the Yeerks themselves would hardly decide to flush their own people.
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Why would they bother installing a system that prevents the pool being flushed while in space? They arrogantly assumed that nobody would be able to get past security and hack into their systems, and the Yeerks themselves would hardly decide to flush their own people.
Maybe but not all Yeerks are defined by arrogance. And who knows whether they would do it themselves? What if a Yeerk lost control of a host? What if a Yeerk goes renegade? What if Visser 3 decides he doesn't particularly like a particular batch of Yeerks? There seem like a lot of reasons they would want to ensure the safety of their future (and essentially their army). Some of the more calculating Yeerks would have undoubtedly seen the need for internal security as well (sounds like something Visser 1 would approved of).
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Why would they bother installing a system that prevents the pool being flushed while in space? They arrogantly assumed that nobody would be able to get past security and hack into their systems, and the Yeerks themselves would hardly decide to flush their own people.
Maybe but not all Yeerks are defined by arrogance. And who knows whether they would do it themselves? What if a Yeerk lost control of a host? What if a Yeerk goes renegade? What if Visser 3 decides he doesn't particularly like a particular batch of Yeerks? There seem like a lot of reasons they would want to ensure the safety of their future (and essentially their army). Some of the more calculating Yeerks would have undoubtedly seen the need for internal security as well (sounds like something Visser 1 would approved of).
Perhaps, but as proved on many occasions, Visser 3 is an arrogant moron! ::)
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Perhaps, but as proved on many occasions, Visser 3 is an arrogant moron! ::)
Granted, he certainly is that. But he's not necessarily typical of his kind.
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According to the Hork-Bajir Chronicles, he's one of the smarter Yeerks! :sign20:
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According to the Hork-Bajir Chronicles, he's one of the smarter Yeerks! :sign20:
Lol, smart but evil. And not particularly cautious or concerned with casualties
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All Yeerks are pretty arrogant it seems. Just like Jake's Yeerk in The Cpature and Visser Three's brotherin The Warning
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what about that yeerk in #8 who wanted to kill visser three. I don't remember anything about him that seemed arrogant.
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It's just something that you would want to make impossible because there is no reason you would ever want to do it on purpose.
Maybe it was hard to get all that water out of the pool, so they had to just flush the stuff into space...after removing all the Yeerks of course.
And it was 17,000 Yeerks...still a lot, but not hundreds of thousands x3
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It's just something that you would want to make impossible because there is no reason you would ever want to do it on purpose.
Maybe it was hard to get all that water out of the pool, so they had to just flush the stuff into space...after removing all the Yeerks of course.
And it was 17,000 Yeerks...still a lot, but not hundreds of thousands x3
Ok, maybe I was a bit overzealous on the number...but did they ever dump the sludge in the pool? I can't recall any mention of needing to change it. The Kandrona was just kinda absorbed by the sludge so you wouldn't think it'd need a change.
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maybe the nutrients in the pool that the yeerks absorb were low.
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I agree with Wotw, it's a kind of error, I think... If I were a Yeerk, I'd make it very very very securised!! I'd be so afraid to be in a pool and that somebody push this stupid button ^_^'
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maybe the nutrients in the pool that the yeerks absorb were low.
Good point.
I agree with Wotw, it's a kind of error, I think... If I were a Yeerk, I'd make it very very very securised!! I'd be so afraid to be in a pool and that somebody push this stupid button ^_^'
Also a good point. So even if the pool sludge needed to be changed on occasion I still think having an emptying function like that is a bad idea...
Then again there are bad ideas all over the place...so maybe it's not so surprising. Perhaps the Yeerks have the poolship built by a government contractor...
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Here's another thing, did they ever need to change the underground Yeerk pool's water? Maybe on the Yeerk homeworld the pools were constantly refilled by rain and absorbed by the soil or something...but maybe on the ships there would be a maintenance reason to drain the pool?
Yeah I'd be definitely paranoid to live in something that could just dump me into space at any moment, without me knowing, totally blind and helpless.
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Why was Visser Three so incompetent in virtually everything? Why were the Yeerks idiotic in every fight scene in the series ever?
Stormtrooper Syndrome, man. The Yeerks could easily be flushed because it suits the story. The Yeerks suck because they have to, in order for the good guys to win.
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Why was Visser 3 so incompetent in virtually everything? Why were the Yeerks idiotic in every fight scene in the series ever?
Stormtrooper Syndrome, man. The Yeerks could easily be flushed because it suits the story. The Yeerks suck because they have to, in order for the good guys to win.
You know what? That's a great point. The Yeerks really never did anything right so I suppose it would have been more surprising if that had changed. Still disappointing but consistent at least... Good answer.
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I mean, really though, Visser Three throughout 99% of the series (excluding Hork-Bajir Chronicles and arguably Andalite Chronicles to an extent) was a bumbling mustache-twirling caricature. If he were actually DANGEROUS, to the extent that he believably should be (with that rank, and all the crazy war experience he's had), Jake and the Scooby Gang would have been crushed by about book 3.
I mean, look at Esplin in H-B Chronicles. He's a ruthless interesting ambitious winner. By book #1 he's like that four-armed robot general guy in the last Star Wars movie. "Ha-HAH! I'll kill you alllll, lowly scum! Bwahaha!"
All I'm saying is the Yeerk Pool flushing isn't really worth complaining about. It's just the same as how a naive farm-kid in Star Wars can beat 5 elite military deathsquad guys in a shootout. Dumb, but necessary for the plot.
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Dumb, but necessary for the plot.
Yeah but that's exactly what makes it so frustrating. At least in star wars they give an excuse (the force). Here it's just the evil guys being incapable of being competent. Is it too much to ask for bad guys that aren't completely stupid?
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Maybe they changed their pool water in orbit and thus did not have a "Prevent Yeerk Swirlie" button. The way jets refuel in air.
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Dumb, but necessary for the plot.
Yeah but that's exactly what makes it so frustrating. At least in star wars they give an excuse (the force). Here it's just the evil guys being incapable of being competent. Is it too much to ask for bad guys that aren't completely stupid?
Star Wars doesn't give an excuse. Untrained hillbilly farmboy in shootout with sci-fi version of Nazi SS elites. Wins. They all obviously miss. That's not a Force thing, that's just given in a PG summer action movie, it's more production necessity than story.
Same deal with the 'Morphs: they needed to win, so they did.
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For the Yeerks it would appear to be one of those unlikely scenarios that you never really plan for. Like someone else said: they're pretty arrogant so they never expect someone to actually get past defenses and get far enough where they would be able to flush a ton of Yeerks down the tube. It's like it's not impossible, but in their minds it's highly improbable.
But I also agree that the Yeerks could have, and probably should have, had a bit more security around the pool. I mean, these Yeerks were probably vital to the invasion. More Yeerks = more loyal minions.
And at the same time, it's the classic villain stereotype. There's always the one blatantly obvious thing that they never plan for. Though it could be one of those things that's obvious to us since we're like outside observers. But it's not entirely obvious to them. They do have other things on their minds. Such as keeping their whole operation a secret and making sure they don't anger their overlords. I know I often forget about obvious things when worrying about something else then kick myself later for it.
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I forget plenty of obvious options whenever I leave something at school.
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But they're at war with Andalites! A race arguably more advanced than they are! You would think that would warrant some concern. It's not exactly unlikely that an andalite could bypass their security and work their systems
And there is almost always someone who catches the little things.
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But they're at war with Andalites! A race arguably more advanced than they are! You would think that would warrant some concern. It's not exactly unlikely that an andalite could bypass their security and work their systems
Except that it IS pretty unlikely, as demonstrated clearly in the final arc of the series when the Pool Ship lands. They take reasonable precautions with this kind of thing.
I seem to get the feeling an Andalite task force would more likely just burn the Pool Ship to individual atoms, rather than seize it, take prisoners, and flush the Yeerks, anyway. Much more their style to just waste the thing, then make some glorious speech and strike a pose while shouting a religious ritual to the skies.
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Except that it IS pretty unlikely, as demonstrated clearly in the final arc of the series when the Pool Ship lands. They take reasonable precautions with this kind of thing.
I seem to get the feeling an Andalite task force would more likely just burn the Pool Ship to individual atoms, rather than seize it, take prisoners, and flush the Yeerks, anyway. Much more their style to just waste the thing, then make some glorious speech and strike a pose while shouting a religious ritual to the skies.
Yes, but you forget that they've been fighting what they had believed to be "Andalite Bandits" for quite some time. And Andalite bandits wouldn't have the power to simply blow the thing up so an internal attack/sabotage is exactly what they should have been expecting.
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I mean, really though, Visser Three throughout 99% of the series (excluding Hork-Bajir Chronicles and arguably Andalite Chronicles to an extent) was a bumbling mustache-twirling caricature. If he were actually DANGEROUS, to the extent that he believably should be (with that rank, and all the crazy war experience he's had), Jake and the Scooby Gang would have been crushed by about book 3.
I mean, look at Esplin in H-B Chronicles. He's a ruthless interesting ambitious winner. By book #1 he's like that four-armed robot general guy in the last Star Wars movie. "Ha-HAH! I'll kill you alllll, lowly scum! Bwahaha!"
All I'm saying is the Yeerk Pool flushing isn't really worth complaining about. It's just the same as how a naive farm-kid in Star Wars can beat 5 elite military deathsquad guys in a shootout. Dumb, but necessary for the plot.
I have to point out something that could change it. Complacency. THroughout time, the higher a person goes up the corporate ladder, or the more success they earn, they feel they deserve more, and when you finnaly are done climbing, your like... Ok I made it. Thats that... now I can relax.
Maybe Visser Three is just so confident in his abilities he forgets it takes work to go much higher.
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Well, I mean when you think about it, a group of "Andalite Bandits" theoretically shouldn't have been able to seize the ship anyway. If the kids were a small band of Andalite warriors working on their own, without the help of the Chee and all their other allies like Eva and Toby, the Yeerks would be right - the Pool Ship couldn't have been seized.
So the precautions they took with the changing of the access codes, and the multitude of Bug Fighters flying patrol, and the buttload of Hork-Bajir in trigger-happy mode, and the giant area of scorched earth they'd created around the landing zone, that all seems pretty reasonable and sufficient.
I agree with you that the Yeerks were portrayed as more than a little incompetent throughout the series, but the fact they landed the Pool Ship and didn't expect to be taken over isn't really a great example. It's probably one of the only times in the books they ever did act with reasonable initiative and concern.
But I totally agree about the "big red button that happens to flush the entire pool into cold dead space" point. That's just a limited point in that plot though.
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I mean, really though, Visser Three throughout 99% of the series (excluding Hork-Bajir Chronicles and arguably Andalite Chronicles to an extent) was a bumbling mustache-twirling caricature. If he were actually DANGEROUS, to the extent that he believably should be (with that rank, and all the crazy war experience he's had), Jake and the Scooby Gang would have been crushed by about book 3.
I mean, look at Esplin in H-B Chronicles. He's a ruthless interesting ambitious winner. By book #1 he's like that four-armed robot general guy in the last Star Wars movie. "Ha-HAH! I'll kill you alllll, lowly scum! Bwahaha!"
All I'm saying is the Yeerk Pool flushing isn't really worth complaining about. It's just the same as how a naive farm-kid in Star Wars can beat 5 elite military deathsquad guys in a shootout. Dumb, but necessary for the plot.
I have to point out something that could change it. Complacency. THroughout time, the higher a person goes up the corporate ladder, or the more success they earn, they feel they deserve more, and when you finnaly are done climbing, your like... Ok I made it. Thats that... now I can relax.
Maybe Visser Three is just so confident in his abilities he forgets it takes work to go much higher.
Maybe but it didn't sound like Visser Three was done climbing to me...
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I mean, really though, Visser Three throughout 99% of the series (excluding Hork-Bajir Chronicles and arguably Andalite Chronicles to an extent) was a bumbling mustache-twirling caricature. If he were actually DANGEROUS, to the extent that he believably should be (with that rank, and all the crazy war experience he's had), Jake and the Scooby Gang would have been crushed by about book 3.
I mean, look at Esplin in H-B Chronicles. He's a ruthless interesting ambitious winner. By book #1 he's like that four-armed robot general guy in the last Star Wars movie. "Ha-HAH! I'll kill you alllll, lowly scum! Bwahaha!"
All I'm saying is the Yeerk Pool flushing isn't really worth complaining about. It's just the same as how a naive farm-kid in Star Wars can beat 5 elite military deathsquad guys in a shootout. Dumb, but necessary for the plot.
I have to point out something that could change it. Complacency. THroughout time, the higher a person goes up the corporate ladder, or the more success they earn, they feel they deserve more, and when you finnaly are done climbing, your like... Ok I made it. Thats that... now I can relax.
Maybe Visser Three is just so confident in his abilities he forgets it takes work to go much higher.
Maybe but it didn't sound like Visser Three was done climbing to me...
He didnt have to be, he only had to feel like he had made it most of the way, and the next step would be easy compared to all he had done before. THatwoul have made him apethic, arrogant, and fix his psyche
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He didnt have to be, he only had to feel like he had made it most of the way, and the next step would be easy compared to all he had done before. THatwoul have made him apethic, arrogant, and fix his psyche
I'm not saying you're not making a good point. I'm just saying that I personally am not buying it. I don't really see Visser three as a "climb the ladder" guy. I see him as a reckless "victory-at-all-costs" character. He is very one-dimensional and evil. It seems like he'd always been that way.
But at the same time, his arrogance and evilness didn't reflect on the entire Yeerk race (though some of the tendency towards incompetence seemed too). My real concern is with the oversights of the rest of the Yeerks...they should have known better in many instances.
You'd think someone (another VIsser, the council) would have decided that flushing yeerks was a bad idea...
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I see him as a reckless "victory-at-all-costs" character. He is very one-dimensional and evil. It seems like he'd always been that way.
Not in the Chronicles.
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I see him as a reckless "victory-at-all-costs" character. He is very one-dimensional and evil. It seems like he'd always been that way.
Not in the Chronicles.
I know. But I view that as more of an anomaly (sp?) than anything else.
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It makes sense for him to have that Andalite-obsessed advantage-craving personality, for him to rise to his position in the Yeerk hierarchy.
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It makes sense for him to have that Andalite-obsessed advantage-craving personality, for him to rise to his position in the Yeerk hierarchy.
Haha. No, I meant an anomaly that he had any depth at all. I'm not saying it wasn't appropriate...
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Did it seem odd to anyone else that it was so easy for Jake to flush 100,000s of Yeerks out of the poolship?
Wouldn't you think the Yeerks would want to make doing something like that pretty damn hard (if not impossible)? Like redundant security measures and passwords and stuff?
It seems unwise to have a big red button with a "Flush Yeerks Here!" sign above it...
Also, why would they even want something like that to be possible? In case they suddenly felt like having a genocide?
Any thoughts or explanations?
The system itself was installed in order to clean out the dirty pool water when there were no Yeerks in the Pool. But I agree, you'd think they'd have made it a tiny bit more difficult to get to. Or have some kind of safety device that scans for Yeerks in the water and won't start the cleaning cycle if they are present. But then I guess Ax is very good at cracking Yeerk codes etc. And I think the Yeerks never imagined an Andalite could gain access to the very centre of the Pool ship and have uninterrupted time to work on their computers. The codes also changed every 15 minutes, so perhaps the Yeerks thought an Andalite would need more time than that to crack them. And all that would have been the case without the help of the Chee and Tom.
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All good points.
But couldn't you make a failsafe of some kind? I like the scanning for Yeerks idea. Make a scan mandatory before dumping. If the scan doesn't come back clean or isn't run then all power to the dumping system is disabled needing a manual restart?
I'm sure they could have come up with something. We're talking about their future after all...
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While we're on the flushing Yeerks thing, why would flushing Yeerk cause Visser One to want to run to the bridge, anyway?
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Because he thought the andalite bandits were there in the control room, so if the yeerks were flushed, visser one would know the andalite bandits weren't there, and run to where they were, the pool.
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Because he thought the andalite bandits were there in the control room, so if the yeerks were flushed, visser one would know the andalite bandits weren't there, and run to where they were, the pool.
Yeah, he'd want to personally wipe them out no matter what else was going on...
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According to the Hork-Bajir Chronicles, he's one of the smarter Yeerks! :sign20:
Nah, He was just so obsessed with Andalites, that he would have done anything to get an Andalite host. ^^
He's just super arrogant, and a terrible leader.